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Well, I have been up and down these posts, and other posts on other sites as well, lots of people complain about this problem
Yes, the boom on my B260 Backhoe is also fast and jerky, however mine is brand new, so there are no worn out parts, it came like this new. the Dipper and Bucket operate smoothly but the boom is very fast and jerky, it sometimes will shake the whole machine, and yes I asked my dealer about it and all they told me is, "well you just need to learn how to operate it" Well he may be right, but if everyone has this problem, then it could be a design flaw in the part of John Deere.
So as I was looking over the unit I noticed that the Boom Cylinder is significantly narrower than the dipper cylinder, now I may not have a engineering degree but simple physics tells me that a smaller cylinder will fill with fluid much faster than a bigger one. Which would tell me why the boom is so fast and jerky.
Well I thought about just replacing the boom cylinder with another dipper one, so I looked online for a dipper cylinder (LVA14990) just to see how much, well its $1013, compared to $725 for the boom cylinder(LVA14991).
So what do ya'll think? Could I be on the right track??
 

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Well, I have been up and down these posts, and other posts on other sites as well, lots of people complain about this problem
Yes, the boom on my B260 Backhoe is also fast and jerky, however mine is brand new, so there are no worn out parts, it came like this new. the Dipper and Bucket operate smoothly but the boom is very fast and jerky, it sometimes will shake the whole machine, and yes I asked my dealer about it and all they told me is, "well you just need to learn how to operate it" Well he may be right, but if everyone has this problem, then it could be a design flaw in the part of John Deere.
So as I was looking over the unit I noticed that the Boom Cylinder is significantly narrower than the dipper cylinder, now I may not have a engineering degree but simple physics tells me that a smaller cylinder will fill with fluid much faster than a bigger one. Which would tell me why the boom is so fast and jerky.
Well I thought about just replacing the boom cylinder with another dipper one, so I looked online for a dipper cylinder (LVA14990) just to see how much, well its $1013, compared to $725 for the boom cylinder(LVA14991).
So what do ya'll think? Could I be on the right track??
Less expensive route to test your theory would be to put a hydraulic restrictor in line on one of the cylinder hoses. This would prevent it from filling as quickly and could be done for less than $50 with fittings. Any good hydraulics shop could assemble everything you need.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

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Less expensive route to test your theory would be to put a hydraulic restrictor in line on one of the cylinder hoses. This would prevent it from filling as quickly and could be done for less than $50 with fittings. Any good hydraulics shop could assemble everything you need.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Someone with more knowledge on hydraulic systems may chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd think a meter out flow control on both ends of the cylinder ports may do the trick. Considering these systems are open center and both sides of the cylinder are filled with fluid, metering / restricting the outflow of the fluid will result in much smoother operation than a meter in flow control.

Just my opinion.
 

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Someone with more knowledge on hydraulic systems may chime in here and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd think a meter out flow control on both ends of the cylinder ports may do the trick. Considering these systems are open center and both sides of the cylinder are filled with fluid, metering / restricting the outflow of the fluid will result in much smoother operation than a meter in flow control.

Just my opinion.
With industrial equipment I have found smoother operation metering in instead of out. When your actuator or valve shifts you would have to develop pressure on the opposite side of the cylinder metering out and that still results in a little surging. In factory configuration by only slightly moving the valve to move a cylinder slowly you are in fact using the valve to meter in.
 

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I am still in the "learn to use it " group.

1) slow the throttle down,,, slow it down enough, it will bore you into speeding it up.

2) The control lever is like a trigger on a gun.
Remember how many cowboy movies show teaching the novice how to shoot?
"Squeeze the trigger,,, do not jerk the trigger"

That applies to this control lever.
S L O W L Y move the lever, the sudden jerk will go away.

When you learn to get rid of the jerking, you will appreciate the extra speed.
A faster machine will get the work done faster.
 

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No offense intended here, but the most common mistake is too high of an RPM setting. Restricting flow to solve a problem that the throttle can do for you is wasting time and money. Here's the recommendations and a comment regarding your experience right out of the 260 manual. The higher the throttle RPM the more sensitive to operate BH, with no gain in digging / breakout force.

260.png

I'd recommend you start out at about 2000 rpm, until you get the feel for it. Increase throttle as you gain experience.

Operating Range:
260 RPM Range.png

I'm a recent owner myself, but the 260 is what I use most of the time. I dug these and ~ 20 larger ones today. The FEL is struggling with the one on the left, so I'll move that later.

IMG_3502.jpg IMG_3503.jpg

After some experience you'll be operating as well as this guy:


Happy digging!
 

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I agree.... Throttle down!! More throttle does not make the BH dig any better, just faster.
Also, the more you use it the better you will get with the controls.

The boom speed also has allot to do with the geometry of where the cylinders are mounted and the position of the boom. The higher the boom is, the faster the boom will move. At a low boom angle, the cylinder to boom geometry changes so the boom is slower at lower angles.

If you look at how the boom cylinder is mounted, when the boom is at a high angle, the boom cylinder is actually pulling more down on the boom rather than applying pulling force at a leverage angle. The leverage angle increases when the boom is lower.
 

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The jerkiness we all experience with the boom when it reaches the vertical position is due to the geometry of the cylinder and attach points. The three points, the hinge point of the boom and the two ends of the cylinder, are close to being in line with each other. That means that for every bit of movement of the cylinder, the boom will be covering a much larger distance than when the boom is horizontal. You simply need to learn that as you approach vertical, you need to ease off the boom lever.

Switching to a larger diameter cylinder will not change this geometry, but it will give the boom more power than it was designed for, which risks causing damage to the machine.

* Just noticed that Ray_Pa mentioned the same thing...
 

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I have just a tad of advise to offer.

Throttle down does/will help.......This is not an option on large machines as the whole particulate filter/regen whatever won't like it.

I baled out of a tractor mounted BH and went excavater.

First thing I notice here is there are NO armrests..these help a bunch in a mini ex.

Secondly...plant your outriggers and bucket to prevent as much movement as possible...once the "jerk" gets in a cycle it can multiply to a point where you just let go of everything to stop it.

Time/practice/low rpm will get you in a rythem eventually. Can you switch your machine to "CAT" pattern of control.

Try it if so....its preferred by most operators.

ymmv....my thoughts
 

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I have just a tad of advise to offer.

Throttle down does/will help.......This is not an option on large machines as the whole particulate filter/regen whatever won't like it.

I baled out of a tractor mounted BH and went excavater.

First thing I notice here is there are NO armrests..these help a bunch in a mini ex.

Secondly...plant your outriggers and bucket to prevent as much movement as possible...once the "jerk" gets in a cycle it can multiply to a point where you just let go of everything to stop it.

Time/practice/low rpm will get you in a rythem eventually. Can you switch your machine to "CAT" pattern of control.

Try it if so....its preferred by most operators.

ymmv....my thoughts
IMO, what most operators prefer has most to do with what they got used to running. SAE control layout was developed in the US so machines that were originally built in the US, like CAT, used the SAE Control layout.
Machines that were built internationally, mostly used the ISO lever layout. This would include JD.
Most all new excavators and backhoes now have the ability to switch them to the ISO or SAE, depending on what you are used to.

It really comes down to what you have gotten used to. :thumbup1gif:
 

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Can you switch your machine to "CAT" pattern of control.
You cannot switch the 260 backhoe. I wish you could. I tried swapping hoses around but then the rates were off. The spool valve for the boom is different than the rest and I didn't want to mess around with trying to move it to another port.
 

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You say you're new to the 260... how new? I don't know how many hours I've used my 260 (perhaps only about 20-25, bought last year) but I'm still learning tricks with it. The angle of the boom, dipper, and bucket are hugely important to getting the most out of it. To a large degree I can control this by moving the tractor to where I'm digging, and just a few inches too close or too far away really make a difference in how successful I can be at digging at a given spot. Which I believe is all due to how small the 260 is: the "sweet spot" is small. With practice, in this sweet spot and running at low RPM, the boom is not jerky. Or at least, there's so little jerkiness that I have come to believe that those who complain about it don't have enough experience with it -- no insult intended.

Just get out there an practice with it more, and you'll learn how to both manage the jerkiness and how to best take advantage of the capability it really offers.
 

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As a few have mentioned I find it most abrupt at the end of the stroke when the geometry is severe. It would have been nice of Deere to have utilized a hydraulic cushion in the bottom of this cylinder. It really doesn't seem that bad to me though, I think a lot of guys aren't feeling the valves, they are just giving the controls a full stroke all the time.
 

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It helps me to choke up on the levers (move down from the ball and grab the control rod). Taking away a bit of mechanical input leverage from the operator helps smooth out the process, at least it does for me. I also run the BH at 2000RPM.
 

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I've only had the TLB with 260 for a few months but it is not the first BH I have operated.
However it is the first joystick/paddle BH as the last one had a row of 6 levers. It took me a while to get a feel for the 260 but I have since used it to remove multiple stumps including 5 that were right next to the house. I used a light touch and never banged the bucket into the wall.:good2:
It has proven to be a great hoe (for me) as long as I remember that it is a subcompact.
 

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Well, I have been up and down these posts, and other posts on other sites as well, lots of people complain about this problem
Yes, the boom on my B260 Backhoe is also fast and jerky, however mine is brand new, so there are no worn out parts, it came like this new. the Dipper and Bucket operate smoothly but the boom is very fast and jerky, it sometimes will shake the whole machine, and yes I asked my dealer about it and all they told me is, "well you just need to learn how to operate it" Well he may be right, but if everyone has this problem, then it could be a design flaw in the part of John Deere.
I'm siding with the dealer. I had the same problem when I first started using the machine. It was really exasperating! I still have an occasional jerk, but it's MUCH better now. Here's what I did. I first slowed the RPM down a little and then I practiced practiced practiced. I extended the boom out as far as it would go and the dipper and brought the bucket bucket back (curling while I moved it back) just barely skimming the top of the grass as if I was digging. My opinion is it takes developing muscle memory to get the right touch As I got better I increased the RPM. This was the first backhoe I had ever operated besides a couple of rentals through the years of small backhoes.
 

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Try to plan your moves so that you aren't moving the boom by itself. This diverts some volume (speed) away from the boom. While a multi-function move is active the boom behaves normally. I believe this is designed so that you can have decent boom movement and still have some use of curl or other functions at the same time.

What you have to watch out for here is being careful to not run out travel in the secondary function while still performing a boom up. When the second function reaches the end all flow will be diverted to the boom causing rapid movement.

Honestly, I never use boom down unless I am applying pressure to dig, I always push it to float and avoid the issue of it robbing flow to move the boom down. Float moves just as fast down as a powered down. Using float also give the ability to run the dipper and curl at the same time, this gives you three moves and removes the jerky boom.

If you are stowing the boom just be careful when you get to the top. Honestly after about 3 hours of digging with the backhoe I had figured out how to move the boom without issues. After 20 hours I can dig all day and not once bang the boom.

I also see no reason to run WOT for BH operations. Honestly 2150 RPM is about as nice as it gets. No stress on the tractor, controls move smooth, ears don't get beat up, fuel consumption is reasonable and all the breakout power you need is available. On the odd large boulder or root I'll run it up to 2500 rpm but honestly can't wait to get it back down to 2150 just because of the engine noise.

These little yanmar motors seem happy in the 2100 RPM range, they just sound better there. I've operated various BH over the years, none of them new, none of them tight and none of them this small. With a little practice and patience you can easily control the boom and any other function of the hoe. I think once you learn how to be smooth with a JD260 any other large hoe you jump on will be a breeze to operate smoothly.
 

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You cannot switch the 260 backhoe. I wish you could. I tried swapping hoses around but then the rates were off. The spool valve for the boom is different than the rest and I didn't want to mess around with trying to move it to another port.
Switching from ISO to SAE aka CAT controls is possible. See my thread http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/implements-attachments/114298-changing-260-backhoe-control-pattern-society-automotive-engineers.html

I do agree just switching hoses will NOT result in satisfactory results. As you alluded to, you must interchange the actual valve spools. Its a few hour job at most and now I don't have to learn ISO controls. About 20 hrs on machine, much of it BH work, with the change so far. No issues so far. Just wanted to post the link because I was told definativley no way no how could the 260BH be switched to SAE controls by my dealer. Maybe I should show them my mod and ask for some JD swag??? Haha

I also think switching to SAE patern will not make it any less jerky. I run machines more than most less than some and do find the 260 BH jerky at full throtle. I also find it painfully slow at low idle so pick your poison haha.

We have to remember the 260BH is a "toy" compared to larger machines in flow, capacity and finess but it can be tamed with a steady hand, lower throtle, and a little practice. I for one sure like using my "Toy" BH rather than a shovel any day.
 

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