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Discussion Starter #1
I have used the JD 650 twice in the current sub-twenty degree temps we have been having.
The tractor started,, but, not happily,, :flag_of_truce: cough, cough,,, chug,, chug,, chugg,,,

Today, I decided to plug in the block heater I installed some 18 months ago.

After a few minutes,,, you could hear a sizzling noise,,
kinda like the old immersion heaters we used 30 years ago to make instant coffee.

I guess the noise is normal? :dunno:

On another note,, do I turn the key clockwise and hold to operate the start assist grid,,
whatever it is called?
 
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After mine gets going - it sounds like a coffee percolator. But it works fine - takes about 2-3 hours for it to warm to starting temperature.
 

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Over the weekend in 15* temps i found the block heater was not working on the 430 which stays in an unheated pole barn and it wasn't going to start. Without having a working block heater I used a heat gun propped on the engine for about 15 minutes then took the air intake hose off and directed it in there for a few more minutes and then cranked it over with the heat gun still on the intake. It started up smoothly, no smoking, chugging, lugging etc. Not sure if that method is right, wrong or severely dangerous but it worked and I lived to tell about it.

I have the replacement block heater ordered, we are supposed to get 50* temps the next couple days - I hope it gets here so I can swap it out while warm.
 

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It seems like the noise would indicate "burning" of the antifreeze?
I have the Rotella "diesel" antifreeze in it now,,, that has only been in it 6 months now.
Hmmmmm,,,,

I have one of those magnetic heaters,, but,,,
there is not a spot big enough to get a good attachment.

The magnetic one helps with my 584 IH,,

I will not be using the block heater 24/7,,,
that noise in a hot water heater indicates the elements need replaced,
or you need a water softener.

Could the block heater have a similar "coating" on it,,, ? :dunno:

I guess I am just over-worrying,,, :flag_of_truce:
 

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Yeah - to me the block heater is NOT a 24-7 deal. I use it when I can plan ahead on using the tractor - plugging it in 2-3 hours ahead of time. If I can't plan ahead I will use the either but that's not my first choice.
 

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Always there

It seems like the noise would indicate "burning" of the antifreeze?
I have the Rotella "diesel" antifreeze in it now,,, that has only been in it 6 months now.
Hmmmmm,,,,

I have one of those magnetic heaters,, but,,,
there is not a spot big enough to get a good attachment.

The magnetic one helps with my 584 IH,,

I will not be using the block heater 24/7,,,
that noise in a hot water heater indicates the elements need replaced,
or you need a water softener.

Could the block heater have a similar "coating" on it,,, ? :dunno:

I guess I am just over-worrying,,, :flag_of_truce:
We have a block heater on an IH 986 and the noise has been there since the tractor was delivered. This is only the second heating element over 35 years so I guess it's normal. I know it works like a charm by plugging it in 30-60 minutes ahead of starting and that tractor stays in an open pole shed.

If I ever get a new tractor, I would have one installed right up front. It's certainly worth it even with our relatively mild temps. It was a toasty 16 this morning, much warmer than many GTTer's.

Treefarmer
 

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After a few minutes,,, you could hear a sizzling noise,,

On another note,, do I turn the key clockwise and hold to operate the start assist grid,,
whatever it is called?
Yep! My 650 block heater made the same sounds.
The "cold weather assist" :mocking: Yes, turn the key counter clock wise and hold it.......listen for the WOOF in the intake and quickly turn to start.
There is a little electric heating element that opens a thermal valve and allows raw fuel to drip down over the heating element from the fuel return line and into the intake manifold. The idea being to suck the flame into the cylinder.
The block heater alone was much more effective for me from +20* and down.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well,, the block heater worked great,,,
after 3 hours, the engine was warm to the touch,
I hit the starter switch, and it started like on a 80 degree, July day. :good2:
 

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Yep, they all make that noise when they're working.
Dad taught me at a young age to listen for that when I plugged in the tractor/pickup to ensure A) it was working and B) the cord was actually plugged in!

I also learned the hard way last weekend that our tractors are affected by wind chills as well.
Brought my 2320 home on an open trailer, in -15* temps, at ~75 mph. For some crazy reason it didn't want to fire right up when I pulled in the drive! Block heater plugged in, jumpers on the battery, and backed into the garage and a little over an hour later and it fired.
 

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The block heater on my generator is the same way. If you don't hear it "making coffee" it's not working. I leave it on about 5 months out of the year 24x7. Had to replace it at about 13 years old, so far so good. I also replace all the hoses every 8 years. Just don't want any surprises... I suspect with a tractor you plug in when you will be needing it, there is no such hose worry due to low hours of use of the block heater each year.

Pete
 

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Yep, they all make that noise when they're working.
Dad taught me at a young age to listen for that when I plugged in the tractor/pickup to ensure A) it was working and B) the cord was actually plugged in!

I also learned the hard way last weekend that our tractors are affected by wind chills as well.
Brought my 2320 home on an open trailer, in -15* temps, at ~75 mph. For some crazy reason it didn't want to fire right up when I pulled in the drive! Block heater plugged in, jumpers on the battery, and backed into the garage and a little over an hour later and it fired.
You will never get a engineer to agree with you on wind chill , but any mechanic absolutely will lol.

And the rule of thumb from the old timers on block heaters where ( when I asked the same question) don't worry about the noise that block heater makes just worry when it don't. Lol

Makes you wonder is it boiling the water in the cavity but I think it's as someone said like a percolator and it's just moving hot water out as it expands and cold water is refilling. After they run for awhile and get the water warm you won't hear a noise , a large fleet I worked for we made our own cords and I always stripped 6 inches of insulation off the cord so I could test when I was checking the line and use a clamp on amp meter to see if it was drawing amperage and working cause we couldn't afford a no start situation some days.

Hanging a treble light next to the battery but not actually touching helps keep the battery warm unless your in the wind


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I've had about 15 block heaters on my cars, trucks and tractors over the years. Most have been on gas engines. Yes, you want to hear the coolant percolating when you first plug the heater in. You have problems if you don't hear it in the first minute or two. There's nothing happening inside the heater that isn't going on inside the cooling system of the engine but at a much greater rate.
When my '96 POWERSTROKE was my daily driver I plugged it in as soon as I pulled it into my shop till I started 10-12 hours later to go back to work. I later bought a timer for it, to run heater for 3-4 hours. Engine would roll over and start like it was middle of summer. Have a winter front to keep cold winter air from over-cooling the engine. Even with winterized fuel, snow, winds, excess idling, and stiff grease, oil, and tires, I'd only drop 1 to1-1/2 mpg in winter! From my semi-driving days, I dropped the same amount, but when your only getting 4 to 4-1/4 mpg, dropping a mpg is a much bigger drop than when your getting 18-19 mpg.

The magnetic heaters I've seen are only 200-300 watt. Mine works O-K on a 10-12 HP Kohler, but I wouldn't use it on anything bigger.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You will never get a engineer to agree with you on wind chill , but any mechanic absolutely will lol.
Hanging a treble light next to the battery but not actually touching helps keep the battery warm unless your in the wind
I hung my LED trouble light next to the battery,, it did not seem to do much,,, :dunno:
is that because I am an engineer?? :flag_of_truce:

:laugh:

When I grew up in Pittsburgh, there was a guy that had two early 1950's Chevy's,,,
neither had antifreeze in them.
one night, the temp went down to 32 degrees,,,

One car faced his house, the other was parked so that the grill received the wind.
The one parked facing the house survived the night, the engine was fine,,
the one facing the wind froze, all the freeze plugs were on the ground the next morning.

THAT guy believes in wind chill,,, to this day,,, :good2:
 

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I hung my LED trouble light next to the battery,, it did not seem to do much,,, :dunno:
is that because I am an engineer?? :flag_of_truce:

:laugh:

When I grew up in Pittsburgh, there was a guy that had two early 1950's Chevy's,,,
neither had antifreeze in them.
one night, the temp went down to 32 degrees,,,

One car faced his house, the other was parked so that the grill received the wind.
The one parked facing the house survived the night, the engine was fine,,
the one facing the wind froze, all the freeze plugs were on the ground the next morning.

THAT guy believes in wind chill,,, to this day,,, :good2:
He believes, but the example is not wind chill. Wind chill is the effective temperature when the wind is factored in against flesh. Inanimate objects lack skin and can not feel wind chill, so the temperature feels colder than it really is. What your example is, is the factoring in of the wind to quickly reduce the temperature of the object to the measured air temp. The car facing the wind cooled off more quickly than the one facing the house, which is not wind chill. The one facing the house, never got down to the measured air temp of freezing. The wind aided the temperature reduction, but it is not wind chill. In order for it to be wind chill the car would have need to reach a temperature below the measured air temp. which I am pretty sure did not happen.

Here is some light reading on the subject.

What is wind Chill
 

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After a few minutes,,, you could hear a sizzling noise,,
kinda like the old immersion heaters we used 30 years ago to make instant coffee.

I guess the noise is normal?

You answered your own question I think because it is doing exactly what you remember. Come back in a couple hours and I bet you don't hear it.

Isn't the sizzling the coolant boiling of the element and popping trapped air bubbles? Not sure but my assumption.


Wind chill is the effective temperature when the wind is factored in against flesh.

Inanimate objects lack skin and can not feel wind chill.


When I was still in service we considered anything that produces heat will experience windchill. Once the heat is gone it no longer experiences windchill. Not that this is correct but it is the definition we used.
 

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You answered your own question I think because it is doing exactly what you remember. Come back in a couple hours and I bet you don't hear it.

Isn't the sizzling the coolant boiling of the element and popping trapped air bubbles? Not sure but my assumption.






When I was still in service we considered anything that produces heat will experience windchill. Once the heat is gone it no longer experiences windchill. Not that this is correct but it is the definition we used.
Yup, a common misconception.
 
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When I was still in service we considered anything that produces heat will experience windchill. Once the heat is gone it no longer experiences windchill. Not that this is correct but it is the definition we used.
What you are describing in general terms is absolutely correct with regard to effective heat dissipation. Windchill is a simplified description of relative heat dissipation from skin. The medical/weather community uses windchill to describe this heat dissipation and limits it to flesh and gives a simplified reference (temperature) that is meaningful to people. It's saying heat dissipation rate from your skin at this wind velocity matches the heat dissipation rate at this temp (windchill) if there were no wind.

The same can absolutely be said of an object that is generating heat. The heat dissipation rate from the object is related to wind velocity whether it be from natural wind or a blower. If an object/person/animal is not generating heat there is no heat dissipation whether from a non running engine or dead skin so no "windchill" effect is in play.
 
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I hung my LED trouble light next to the battery,, it did not seem to do much,,, :dunno:




The LED lights are known not to draw much power and not put out much heat. The local street department is having problems using LED's is traffic signalls because they won't melt the snow. If you use one of those clip on light with a normal flood light it wil make a difference.
 
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Block Heater "Noise"?

I hung my LED trouble light next to the battery,, it did not seem to do much,,, :dunno:




The LED lights are known not to draw much power and not put out much heat. The local street department is having problems using LED's is traffic signalls because they won't melt the snow. If you use one of those clip on light with a normal flood light it wil make a difference.
Lol drifter he was poking fun and me for making fun of engineers guess it was just some underlying digging lol

The subject of windchill is as old and boring as which came first the chicken or the egg /yawn

While everyone is off researching relativity and dissipation, do your self a favor and just put a piece of cardboard in front of your radiator when it's on the trailer lol


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