Green Tractor Talk banner

1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,965 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've been a GM guy most of my life, but the '01 F350 SD isn't my first, or second Ford for that matter. I used to joke the problem with Fords was they tended to break out in blue ovals and then everything turned to crap - joked and said it was "blue oval syndrome". And of course my Ford fanatic friends would all make contorted faces and sneer at me for that joke. :lol:

This week, the syndrome showed up full force.

I got the Towmaster 14K trailer last week, drove it up to the woods in a blizzard and all was dandy. Ordered up a brake controller and harness, then looked up the DMV laws about towing heavy trailers - don't need a CDL unless the combined weight is over 26,001#. We're good right? No.

My trailer hitch on the truck is rated for 12,5K with weight distribution, but only 6,000# without. Ok, need a weight distributing hitch and be mindful not to load up to the trailer's max. Wrong! DOT says tow vehicle has to be capable of pulling the load per the door tag. My door tag says 10K trailer weight, but I can put 4,5K on the truck and we're golden (10K truck, 10K trailer = 20K GCWR and all is groovy!). Well, that's too much tongue weight for my hitch. Need a new hitch. Ok...

So I order a new Curt superfabulous Commercial grade Class 5 20Klb hitch (now hitch is rated more than tow vehicle can pull). $300 just Poofed, but we're legal and all is well. Then I noticed my combination pintle/ball draw bar is only 6T. Crap!

Ordered a 10T pintle/ball drawbar for $65 (open box from Amazon, saved $20! Cool...), and while I was at it, I got a lunette ring for the trailer since the 2-5/16" coupler needs the precision of a brain surgeon to close the side-latch design. Another $40... Ugg. Oh well, it'll be much easier on me going forward.

Chain binders and chain for the tractor. Another $300 POOF! Ouch.

Got a Tekonsha P3 controller sine the P.O. took their controller with them. Another $150 POOF!

Drove home from the cabin and have this grinding noise when I'm almost stopped. Rear brake wore out the pads (I think dealer I got it from must've put a new rotor and pads on the right side but not the left, since those were practically new) and my left rotor is shot. Grrr!!!! $300 later...

I'm about to put the new rotor on and I notice a broken leaf in the rear pack on the left side. Truck has 270K on it, so it's not all that surprising (front brakes were also done this winter), and the roads up by the woods are REALLY BAD in the winter, so it's like Baja Racing. Well, Husky Spring is local to me, how bad could new Boingers be for the old gal? Oh, they won't compete with their retailers since O'Reilly's is a dealer (have to special order them) so buying direct is more expensive than buying from a dealer - I get it, I do. O'Reilly's has an extra $100 mark-up over Rock Auto and charges sales tax, but Rock Auto only charges $50 shipping. I order springs. $420 later OUCH!



The only saving grace in all of this is that I'll have peace of mind when it's said and done, and it is cheaper than the hit I'd probably take from a claim against losing the tractor at highway speeds.

My UPS guy is going to deserve a beer by Wednesday. The chain binders showed up yesterday, and the pintle hitch is supposedly being delivered tomorrow, but I kinda doubt it. My truck hitch comes Tuesday.

I've already started hitting all the bolts and nuts with Break-free.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,842 Posts
I tell you, it's really not that easy of a thing to plan for trailer pulling. It takes careful consideration and it seems many large looking pickup trucks turn out to have relatively low capabilities if you don't pay attention when you buy new or used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
568 Posts
NO NO NO !!!!!! ford's out sell anyone that makes them the greatest
kinda like Mcdolnalds hamburgers must be the best because they sell the most of them :cheers:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,965 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
NO NO NO !!!!!! ford's out sell anyone that makes them the greatest
kinda like Mcdolnalds hamburgers must be the best because they sell the most of them :cheers:
You couldn't give me a Dodge at this point in my life. My truck has the cancer in the bed, and it still has less missing material than the 5-year newer Chrysler Town and Country we have despite weekly washings to remove the salts and any dirt from the van since new.


The issue here is two-fold. The first is that I'm hauling a trailer which is at maximum weight for the chassis. Second is that I encountered two expensive (to me) wear items at the same time in conjunction with discovering that my gooseneck-hitch equipped truck was not outfitted with a bumper-pull hitch capable of the max loads I intended to haul with it. This ended up making for a very expensive week, it's not that the truck is bad. It's actually a pretty awesome truck!

Ford's front axle is the better between them and GM (no clue what Ram is using as I won't own one again :lol:) in the 3/4 and 1T trucks. I would've gone for a Chevy or GMC had I not needed to fabricate a solid front axle to their chassis to get one (the half-shafts and differential are the same in the HD's as the 1T, and that's just not acceptable). The Duramax also has far too high of resale value around here to be considered affordable and my 7.3L is a BEAST of an engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
568 Posts
7.3 beast of an engine. some think that.. they can get the job done. try to go above stock power and they will not last. 250hp and 500lbs of twist is plenty for a class 3 truck. them 7.3's sure need to be plugged in and suffer from oil quality and leaks (94+) with their HEUI injection

but even bill at powerstrokehelp who does nothing but powerstrokes states 7.3's are not worth putting money into and he wont work on them anymore

7.3 in my opinion 7.3's most over rated diesel engine ever. yes i worked on them and have driven them. keep them stock you may get 300k without major repairs.

but im if you like yours great. i have seen every make of truck rusted out. did you see my pick of my 06 dodge i just posted. which spent its entire life in stl no rust
is that normal no

i used to drive all types of class 5-8 trucks and zero of them had a powerstroke/duramax of any kind in them.

no hard feelings just when i hear someone say i will never own a blank because of rust or propaganda i laugh

and fords ttb front end is a great money maker if you are a mechanic btw

their solid front axle's suffer from the same ball joint wear as dodge.. gm suffer very little with their ifs front end.. most people bad mouth that setup because its very expensive to lift a gm ifs front end correctly.

why is there a huge aftermarket for putting a 5.9 cummins into a ford or gm for that ,matter.. dodge chassie sucks mine is proof that it dont.. i have scale tickets totaling 25k pounds on my 2500 with no weight distribution bars. no broken leaf springs for me.. with a class 5 receiver hitch

also when towing that much with ur truck keep an eye on that bed to cab clearance.. :flag_of_truce:
:cheers:

i am not brand loyal to any make of anything did cummins make some turds in their 100+ yrs of diesel engine making? sure but not many.. as well as john deere ect:greentractorride:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
568 Posts
Missouri vs Minnesota is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? We had 12" of snow last week and we use more chemicals than the Rolling Stones ever did on them. :lolol:

Keep driving your vulva looking nosed ugly trucks and I'll keep staying away from them. ;)
of course it seams u have never been to stl.. they dump millions of pounds of rock salt on the roads when temps are 40f i have been all the way up to international falls MN + quebec canada. (im sure you drove that truck all the way to santa's house and back) i did not plug my truck in -35f night time temps and when i got up my VULVA looking truck lit right off just one cycle of the grid heater. as far as design hmmmmm lots of similarities between dodge ram 94 + and the furd.... you was probably way to into ur truck to notice.

keep driving it im sure you have the four post lift to pull the cab off when that awesome 7.3 needs something. most people dont
your truck simply dosent make enough power to hurt anything so your good there

facts.. im sorry you got butt hurt on the facts but u started it lol:lol::lol:

i will let you have the final word............................:greentractorride:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,965 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Rock salt. LOL That's cute. We use calcium chloride (that stuff that rusts tractor wheels out all the time :munch: ) and keep applying it all the way down to -20F...

You've been to MN. That's funny too. I've been to St Louis, and further South a few times. :lolol: I live in MN year round!

Last word eh? You posted in this thread to try to brag up your truck. Nobody asked you about your ugly dodge or how much power it makes or how much you can tow with it. I have a 1975 C65 Chevy that has a measly 366ci gasser that would out haul your Ram on it's bare chassis (rated for 31,5K, single axle), but that's not the point of this thread. :munch:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
568 Posts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QIBxNcpLf8 might want to grab one y you can

anyway i know one thing and thats not to argue with fools... so you win .. i can see you have 2700+ post on here to my little 500 so i know were you spend most of your time behind the keyboard..........
 

·
Bonehead Club Lackey
Joined
·
10,196 Posts
I'm about to put the new rotor on and I notice a broken leaf in the rear pack on the left side. Truck has 270K on it, so it's not all that surprising (front brakes were also done this winter), and the roads up by the woods are REALLY BAD in the winter, so it's like Baja Racing.
Pretty much says it all right there. Had a 17 year old dodge where the only thing good on it was cab, front fenders and hood, engine, trans., transfer case, drive shaft and rearend. Everything else was toast. Couldn't even put gas in it without some getting on the ground during fillup. Under 120,000 miles on it. Didn't mean to get in on this back and forth but at 270K on any vehicle is saying something. No matter what brand it is. BTW, traded my dodge for a Ford.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,352 Posts
Just a reminder, let’s please keep this respectful. Brand bashing is not allowed neither is being disrespectful to each other.

It’s ok to disagree and have differences of opinion. Just don’t take it personal. :good2:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,897 Posts
Just a reminder, let’s please keep this respectful. Brand bashing is not allowed neither is being disrespectful to each other.

It’s ok to disagree and have differences of opinion. Just don’t take it personal. :good2:
:good2:

I kinda thought they were pulling each others chain out fun there for a minute....and it was sounding kinda funny for a while. :laugh: Then it seems to have gotten to the pot callin' the kettle.

:dunno:.....

Everything breaks and everything rusts. Other wise I would be driving Dad's Packard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,695 Posts
Jim, That hitch limit is pretty common.

Glad you ran the numbers to keep things right. As you pointed out. You can do anything you want until there is an accident and then you can only hope that no one is seriously hurt or killed because you will have a bad time if that happens and you didn't look at these numbers. A lot of people out there never look beyond that advertised towing capacity which is pure propaganda no matter what the brand. I have seen it in Dodge, Ford, GM and Toyota. There are so many things that have to be looked into that it doesn't make it easy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,965 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
The tow rating is fine, it's just that the previous owners ran gooseneck trailers and I specifically wanted a bumper pull trailer because of the ability to use it behind my C65 (which will require a CDL :banghead: even though I de-rated it when I put the plates on it) and the ability to tow it with friends trucks etc. I had remembered the hitch was rated high, but never noticed the "with weight distributing hitch" caveat.

I actually wonder if the 10,000lb trailer rating was due to the DOT laws in effect 18 years ago? The chassis is the same as used on a DRW, but the spring packs and axles are different. I'll be upping my rear spring rate with the new leafs, and would actually like to put a Dana 80 under the back, but don't have the $$$ to do it right now.

My Towmaster T-10DT is de-rated to 9980# per the hardly legible frame tag, but has the same construction and capacity as their 14K trailer. The previous owner of that put 12K tags on it because going to the full 14K is another $30 a year in tax. You only run into issues with towing a trailer in excess of 10Klbs when you're driving a vehicle that's registered for 26Klbs - the combination exceeds the provisions of a Class D license and bumps you into CDL territory. So much of what's debated about in the name of safety online in the forums is actually just legalese about the Federal CDL requirements and much of those are just how the Govt is trying to milk more money out of us.

So my F350 with 12K plates and a trailer with 14K plates combines out to 26K and is kosher under the DOT for class D.

Put that trailer behind my C65 with 26K plates and I now need a CDL. Run the truck with a 10K plated trailer and no CDL.

As many folks point out, actual weight doesn't matter. I argue that door tags don't matter either, unless you really are exceeding the capabilities of the configuration you're running, and that would enter into negligence territory. If you modify the vehicle it does change the capabilities of the equipment. What you don't know is at what point does what you did bring you to what another factory rated offering would be stickered as. When you go from SRW to DRW on the F350's, you gain bigger brakes and more contact patch as well as wider stance for better stability in the rear. You can put higher load rated tires on your SRW and bigger springs and bigger brakes to get to the same component ratings, but you don't know how those compare to the factory's DRW configuration so it's not entirely apples to apples.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,842 Posts
The tow rating is fine, it's just that the previous owners ran gooseneck trailers and I specifically wanted a bumper pull trailer because of the ability to use it behind my C65 (which will require a CDL :banghead: even though I de-rated it when I put the plates on it) and the ability to tow it with friends trucks etc. I had remembered the hitch was rated high, but never noticed the "with weight distributing hitch" caveat.

I actually wonder if the 10,000lb trailer rating was due to the DOT laws in effect 18 years ago? The chassis is the same as used on a DRW, but the spring packs and axles are different. I'll be upping my rear spring rate with the new leafs, and would actually like to put a Dana 80 under the back, but don't have the $$$ to do it right now.

My Towmaster T-10DT is de-rated to 9980# per the hardly legible frame tag, but has the same construction and capacity as their 14K trailer. The previous owner of that put 12K tags on it because going to the full 14K is another $30 a year in tax. You only run into issues with towing a trailer in excess of 10Klbs when you're driving a vehicle that's registered for 26Klbs - the combination exceeds the provisions of a Class D license and bumps you into CDL territory. So much of what's debated about in the name of safety online in the forums is actually just legalese about the Federal CDL requirements and much of those are just how the Govt is trying to milk more money out of us.

So my F350 with 12K plates and a trailer with 14K plates combines out to 26K and is kosher under the DOT for class D.

Put that trailer behind my C65 with 26K plates and I now need a CDL. Run the truck with a 10K plated trailer and no CDL.

As many folks point out, actual weight doesn't matter. I argue that door tags don't matter either, unless you really are exceeding the capabilities of the configuration you're running, and that would enter into negligence territory. If you modify the vehicle it does change the capabilities of the equipment. What you don't know is at what point does what you did bring you to what another factory rated offering would be stickered as. When you go from SRW to DRW on the F350's, you gain bigger brakes and more contact patch as well as wider stance for better stability in the rear. You can put higher load rated tires on your SRW and bigger springs and bigger brakes to get to the same component ratings, but you don't know how those compare to the factory's DRW configuration so it's not entirely apples to apples.
My understanding is that the dual wheel axle is more heavy duty than the single wheel axle.

Sent from my Samsung Note using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,695 Posts
The tow rating is fine, it's just that the previous owners ran gooseneck trailers and I specifically wanted a bumper pull trailer because of the ability to use it behind my C65 (which will require a CDL :banghead: even though I de-rated it when I put the plates on it) and the ability to tow it with friends trucks etc. I had remembered the hitch was rated high, but never noticed the "with weight distributing hitch" caveat.
My point was that you can't actually take advantage of the claimed towing capacity with the bumper pull receiver hitch. You would blow past the max hitch weight well before getting close to any advertised tow rating. That is what you ran into and upgraded your hitch on the truck with the one from Curt that a Class V hitch. That was still needed because you ran out of tongue weight even with a WD Hitch. Typically when running ball park numbers for people this is the exact problem they run into. It is easier to upgrade the hitch on pickups. Not an option on our Yukon. Not a big deal, we just went with a 30' camper, with the slides and it is plenty big for us and is like a mansion compared to our old 22' that didn't have any slides.

I actually wonder if the 10,000lb trailer rating was due to the DOT laws in effect 18 years ago? The chassis is the same as used on a DRW, but the spring packs and axles are different. I'll be upping my rear spring rate with the new leafs, and would actually like to put a Dana 80 under the back, but don't have the $$$ to do it right now.

My Towmaster T-10DT is de-rated to 9980# per the hardly legible frame tag, but has the same construction and capacity as their 14K trailer. The previous owner of that put 12K tags on it because going to the full 14K is another $30 a year in tax. You only run into issues with towing a trailer in excess of 10Klbs when you're driving a vehicle that's registered for 26Klbs - the combination exceeds the provisions of a Class D license and bumps you into CDL territory. So much of what's debated about in the name of safety online in the forums is actually just legalese about the Federal CDL requirements and much of those are just how the Govt is trying to milk more money out of us.

So my F350 with 12K plates and a trailer with 14K plates combines out to 26K and is kosher under the DOT for class D.

Put that trailer behind my C65 with 26K plates and I now need a CDL. Run the truck with a 10K plated trailer and no CDL.

As many folks point out, actual weight doesn't matter. I argue that door tags don't matter either, unless you really are exceeding the capabilities of the configuration you're running, and that would enter into negligence territory. If you modify the vehicle it does change the capabilities of the equipment. What you don't know is at what point does what you did bring you to what another factory rated offering would be stickered as. When you go from SRW to DRW on the F350's, you gain bigger brakes and more contact patch as well as wider stance for better stability in the rear. You can put higher load rated tires on your SRW and bigger springs and bigger brakes to get to the same component ratings, but you don't know how those compare to the factory's DRW configuration so it's not entirely apples to apples.
I 10000% agree with that part in bold. You would be amazed at the number of people out there that throw airbags or bigger brakes on a truck 1/2 ton truck and now claim they can tow as much as a 1 ton just because it sits level. Unless you do the engineering behind the scenes to back up what the modifications actually added to the truck, you might as well consider them nothing more than bling on the truck. I want to say that someone on another forum mentioned an aftermarket shop that was reclassifying trucks and they had the engineers to back up the changes to the data plates. I don't remember what the modifications were exactly but something along the lines of what you are talking about. Adding the bigger brakes and suspension that the DRL normally have to a SRW and such.

As far as the door tags. My thought is they are a good starting point. They are going to let you know things like what your truck weighed when it left the factory with all the factory installed options. It is more of an issue with pickups but there are so many factory options with them that there can be quite a range or curb weights. With some of these starting reference points you can start to go through things on paper like what you have been doing but it doesn't replace a trip to the CAT Scales. It is mainly to get you in the ball park to get you to the scales safely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,965 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
My understanding is that the dual wheel axle is more heavy duty than the single wheel axle.

Sent from my Samsung Note using Tapatalk
They are. A Dana 80 is what comes under the DRW, vs the Sterling 10.5" under the SRW's. D80's are rated for 12K where the S11.5's are only 9,750. :mocking: The rear axle on my truck is really only limited by the tires and the brake system.

My trailer brakes are rated for the full 14Klbs, so there's no additional load on the truck pulling it unless the controller isn't adjusted correctly.


Hitting scales is on my to-do list once I get the trailer fixed up.
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
Top