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Broken bolts on FEL support bracket

13K views 39 replies 15 participants last post by  Sundancer268 
#1 ·
Bought my 2520 in April and have been having fun with it ever since! Got the backhoe and the FEL...nothing else just yet!

Anyway, the reason I'm writing is to ask if anyone else has had the 10.9 type bolts that mount the FEL support bracket onto the frame of the tractor? I was moving dirt in the FEL when I saw a shiny bolt lying on the ground....picked it up and saw it was broken off. I thought it might be a tire lug since I read in the manual that you should re-torque those bolts! Nope, the tire lugs were fine...further inspection found the three bolts that secure the FEL support braket onto the frame on the left side were missing. I checked the right side and found that they were loose!! The tractor only has 30 hours on it!
I called service and they said that I was suppose to re-torque those bolts at 25 hours...I checked the manual and see that it states they need to be re-torqued at 50 hours. I'm waiting for service to call me with the results of their analysis.

Anyone have this problem? it sounds to me like they didn't torque down all of those support bracket bolts correctly to begin with!!!
 
#3 ·
I checked the manual and see that it states they need to be re-torqued at 50 hours. Anyone have this problem? it sounds to me like they didn't torque down all of those support bracket bolts correctly to begin with!!!
Does the manual say 50hrs period or 50 hours of loader work? The later would make more sense. With that many bolts missing and loose I do believe you have and install problem. With that many bolts loose thank your lucky stars it didn't snap it all right off.
 
#4 ·
Welcome, and it sure sounds like the dealer dropped the ball on the loader installation as those metric 10.9 bolts are stout items.
 
#5 ·
Can you tell if there is paint between the FEL bracket and tractor frame? The paint should be removed before FEL install. That layer of paint can cause more problems than you might imagine.

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#7 ·
The contact area should be metal to metal. With properly torqued bolts, your brackets should not loosen.

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#8 ·
WOW! That is a tough break. :mocking: All kidding aside, you are extreamly lucky that you caught it in time. Let us know how this all turns out. Will have to check mine now just for a piece of mind. Thanks for the heads up. :good2:
 
#9 ·
Well, I'm waiting for the Service Manager to call me back....

They called this morning to tell me the tractor is all set and I owe them cash for repairing it.
They said it was not covered under warranty due to the bolts not being re-torqued at 10 hours and they suspect I was doing work that they feel should have been done with a larger machine.

What a Crock! First of all, I told the guy that my manual says to re-torque at 50 hours, not 10. He says that their manuals state otherwise! I told him that I'm not responsible if you don't tell me what I need to know!!! The book you gave me says 50 hours!! then he goes on to say that they beleive that I was overloading the tractor and it appears that I should have been using a larger tractor. I asked how they came to this conclussion other than to bilk this customer out of cash!!!

I'm very disappointed with John Deere Service right now!!!

Can someone tell me if I'm all wet on the 10 hour re-torque on a 200CX mounting screws?
 
#10 ·
I would not pay a dime. Demand to speak to a regional rep-that's what I would do.
 
#12 ·
I am not going to defend the actions of your dealer. I believe their response was a poor PR decision. Although, Operators Manual OMW54456; Section 40: Lubrication and Maintenance; First 10 hours does, clearly, state that your loader frames should be tightened at the first 10 hours then every 50 hours thereafter. As long as you were supplied with an Operators Manual, they can lay the blame at your feet. You may be able to negotiate with the territory manager. If it's not a large bill, you may want to chalk it up as a learning experience. :empathy3: Good Luck.
 

Attachments

#13 ·
Kevin:

The photo you posted states lubrication at 10-hours, and bolt tightening at 50-hours. I'd say the OP is right and the stealer in this case is wrong, or is there more to the manual contradicting the photo?
 
#15 ·
2nd item on the list, "tighten mounting frames on both sides".

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#16 ·
This thread is a great reminder. I know I've checked all the pivots on the loader, but I haven't done the mounting brackets to the frame. Thanks Guys, I have two tractors to check.
 
#17 ·
Just checked mine and the two on the bottom cross bracket were loose, but that is where I mounted my Brotek skidplate and I may not have torqued it down as much as I should have. Also one of the pivot nuts was a little loose. Course
I have 45 hours on mine so it would of been due soon anyway.
 
#18 ·
The photo of the manual posted does indicate that the First 10 hours the bolts should be checked. You need to read the bold header above the items to check to see that this section is listing the items that should be checked after the first 10 hours of use. The text in parenthesis is indicating that the procedure for checking the bolts is described in the 50 hour section. The manual could be more clear but I believe the manual is indicating that after the first 10 hours the bolts should be checked. Then every 50 hours after that. Just like I know my X500 said the trans fluid should be changed after the first 50 hours of use on the machine then it says every 200 hours after that. It's like a break in period.
 
#19 ·
I stand corrected

The photo of the manual posted does indicate that the First 10 hours the bolts should be checked. You need to read the bold header above the items to check to see that this section is listing the items that should be checked after the first 10 hours of use. The manual could be more clear but I believe the manual is indicating that after the first 10 hours the bolts should be checked. Then every 50 hours after that.
You're right, I was wrong. :flag_of_truce: To quote Scooby Do "rut-row."
 
#21 ·
The manual could be more clear
It is just awkwardly worded,
Boy,ain't that the truth,and it's not just this particular misunderstanding or misinterpretation,or whatever. Their (JD) manuals plain suck.
It's a bit expensive,but is the tech manual any better at explaining things like this?


Greg
 
#22 ·
I just checked mine and everyone was loose with the one behind the fuel seperator backing out. I still have two to tighten on the left side behind the hydraulic pressure line but I will have to buy a 18mm boxed end for that one and guess at 103 ft/lbs. This way I do not have to drop the line.

Any reason these bolts do not use lock washers? The way we are going we will be checking every bolt on these tractors every 50 hours.
 
#23 ·
No, they are not. Sometimes you have to read between the lines that had been omitted. ;-) The serial number breaks that separate production changes are only accurate to within a few thousand machines. I always get nervous when I get a machine near a break.

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#24 ·
I checked mine,and they are as tight as the day it (loader) was installed.:thumbup1gif:

Greg
 
#25 ·
Looking at the manual again, I agree it's poorly worded and as a result I think the OP can push for getting the dealer and/or Deere to pick up the tab, or at least part of it.

There are good technical writers and there are mediocre technical writers, and there are lousy technical writers. I'm guessing a new or lousy technical writer got the assignment to write the loader manual.

This brings up another observation on my part in that with the frequent model changeover and/or upgrades by Deere and all manufactirers for that matter; something is going to slip through the cracks with that many irons in the fire.

I've found minor errors in my 4200's owner's manual. I just make note of them and move on.

The worst manuals I have are for my Wilton and Grizzly bandsaws. They were obviously written by someone who learned English at www.engrish.com
 
#28 ·
I'm going to guess that Deere wouldn't sanction lockwashers under the flange bolts. My guess, and I stress the word guess is that if the lockwashers were to break into two pieces from the loads placed on them, the bolts would automatically become loose after the washer pieces fell away. Of course if the bolts are loose to begin with, my comment is a moot point.

Most of the stress placed on the loader frame bolts are shear followed by vibration. Maybe Kjung can tell us if blue Loctite is supposed to be used by dealers when they assemble these loaders.
 
#30 ·
The bolts in question are not flange head bolts (atleast not on mine). They are regular head bolts with standard washers under them. I have two flange head bolts at the rear where the MMM draft arms mount to the loader frame on each side and the rest are standard heads.

I found grade 8 lock washers that are the same thickness as the standard washers they replaced and I did not put any under the flange heads. The threads as they are stock only engage 1/2" and not the whole bolt. Seems not the ideal setup IMO. I "think" over time the dissimilar metals will corrode and lock themselves as I could see signs of this on some I took out.

I agree with Randy and that checking these is a good reminder.
 
#29 ·
Well gang, I just checked mine on the 2305 and I found a couple of loose bolts on the right side. Now mind you mine were way over due as I have 135 hours on the machine, but limited loader time. Thanks for the reminder guys.
 
#31 ·
The 200x/200cx mounting frame bolts should have medium strength loc-tite on them only when mounting on a 4xxx tractor. This is taken from field installation manuals W52849, W51806, and W52695. The 4xxx tractors also use flange-head bolts where the 2x20 tractors use bolts with flat washers and do not call for loc-tite. The OP manual for the 200x/200cx loaders, as previously posted, calls for the re-torquing of bolts at the first 10 hours and every 50 hours thereafter. These are the laws set by JD. :tongue:

I, personally, do not see the logic in using loc-tite when you will be putting a wrench on these bolts every 50 hours. If it were me, I would consider adding a lock washer between the flat washer and the bolt head. If you do this, you may want to measure the bolt length to ensure that you still have plenty of thread contact. Thread contact should be, at least, as long as the diameter of your fastener. (for example, A 10mm bolt should have, at least 10mm of bolt threaded into the hole)
 
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