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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's the summary reason for my post - I bought my tractor new from a Deere dealer along with most of the implements. The other couple of items I also purchased new from another company or received as a gift. I own all of it outright. I have a deal pending to sell everything to a local resident and am wondering what is best to provide them in terms of any paperwork that shows full transfer of legal ownership to them in lieu of the fact that these items are not titled or registered within the state's systems.

I am not willing to provide a "full" copy of my original bill of sale to me because it has all of the pricing and such on it (plus it shows an implement that I have already sold). I suppose that I could take a photo of it, crop out the prices on the right side, and give that... But, that technically also still doesn't show that there is no lien on the machine (which there isn't).

If anyone has any suggestions or knows of a more formal 'registry' of sorts to use, I'm game.

Thanks in advance!
 

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If you had a loan tgat used the tractor as collateral, there should be a payoff letter or the ability to get one from the lender. This would be more to protect the buyer than the seller. A notarized Bill of Sale would be my request if I was the buyer, after confirming the VIN is released from any liens.

The original receipt (if paid in full) is your "title" if there has never been other ownership or lien(s). What you agreed to sell it for and what you paid for it are details that shouldn't matter to the buyer. Unless it was some epic deal originally and you're selling a used machine for more than you paid. 馃槈
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If you had a loan tgat used the tractor as collateral, there should be a payoff letter or the ability to get one from the lender. This would be more to protect the buyer than the seller. A notarized Bill of Sale would be my request if I was the buyer, after confirming the VIN is released from any liens.

The original receipt (if paid in full) is your "title" if there has never been other ownership or lien(s). What you agreed to sell it for and what you paid for it are details that shouldn't matter to the buyer. Unless it was some epic deal originally and you're selling a used machine for more than you paid. 馃槈
Thanks. Reasonable points... However... I don't recall what I got (if anything) in the mail from Deere Financial when I paid off the loan (and if I did get something, I have no idea if I still have it or where it is). I do remember grabbing a screen shot of the account at the time showing no balance on the loan, but I don't know if I still have it. Plus, I don't know that there's any way to 'prove' that no lender currently shows my machine as collateral for a loan of any kind. I'm trying to figure out how to fully transfer ownership to the new owner so he's protected and can insure it if he wants or whatever...
 

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Thanks. Reasonable points... However... I don't recall what I got (if anything) in the mail from Deere Financial when I paid off the loan (and if I did get something, I have no idea if I still have it or where it is). I do remember grabbing a screen shot of the account at the time showing no balance on the loan, but I don't know if I still have it. Plus, I don't know that there's any way to 'prove' that no lender currently shows my machine as collateral for a loan of any kind. I'm trying to figure out how to fully transfer ownership to the new owner so he's protected and can insure it if he wants or whatever...
Your buyer should be able to contact the origional selling dealer to confirm lien status on the VIN, being that you're the original owner and have a payoff confirmation from the selling dealer as a buyer, my spidy sense would be relaxed.
While not impossible for you to use it as collateral elsewhere, seeing as you bought it from deere, financed it with deere, and deere shows it paid off would satisfy me, as a buyer. I'd venture a guess most banks would do an unsecured loan on something they can't hold a title on, unless it was business or some other unique relationship with the bank. A unique relationship that the seller has via trust and history, something it's unlikely the seller would want to ruin.
 
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To me...its no different than selling a bicycle or a power tool. Don't offer to give the seller anymore than he asks for.
 

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Thanks. Reasonable points... However... I don't recall what I got (if anything) in the mail from Deere Financial when I paid off the loan (and if I did get something, I have no idea if I still have it or where it is). I do remember grabbing a screen shot of the account at the time showing no balance on the loan, but I don't know if I still have it. Plus, I don't know that there's any way to 'prove' that no lender currently shows my machine as collateral for a loan of any kind. I'm trying to figure out how to fully transfer ownership to the new owner so he's protected and can insure it if he wants or whatever...
Deere sends a letter upon pay off. I still have mine in a file. They may be willing to send you a duplicate if you ask.

But to your main point, there is no way to offer any sort of protection here. There is no title so there is no system to track any sort of lien. You can't prove a negative. The only difference between this and buying a push mower from someone at a yard sale is the cost involved.
 

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Seems to me you鈥檙e good to go. Give the buyer a bill of sale. If you know it鈥檚 yours without any encumbrances why worry about it. As for anything further if the buyer requests something else deal with it then.
 

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"as is" bill of sale on each separate item ......its the buyers responsibility to do his own due diligence........if i were the buyer and extremely skeptical i would call in the vin# to JD to check status, get the bill of sale notarized, and get a receipt for payment if not paid by check

just a question.......how is he going to pay you? ........how will you know if his check is good? ....point is you will have to do your diligence on that end

if its a large purchase/sale i always like to take a picture of the other parties drivers license and car plates for my records
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
"as is" bill of sale on each separate item ......its the buyers responsibility to do his own due diligence........if i were the buyer and extremely skeptical i would call in the vin# to JD to check status, get the bill of sale notarized, and get a receipt for payment if not paid by check

just a question.......how is he going to pay you? ........how will you know if his check is good? ....point is you will have to do your diligence on that end

if its a large purchase/sale i always like to take a picture of the other parties drivers license and car plates for my records
I have a Purchase and Sale contract that I've drawn up based on a raw template I found online. I have each item listed out, serial numbers where available, and a total cost. It specifically states "As is" and "No warranty".

We use a common brick and mortar bank - we're going to meet at a branch where he will make a "cash" withdrawal that I will then deposit into my account. We will then proceed to where the tractor and everything is garaged and he will load up and take away.
 
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I have a Purchase and Sale contract that I've drawn up based on a raw template I found online. I have each item listed out, serial numbers where available, and a total cost. It specifically states "As is" and "No warranty".

We use a common brick and mortar bank - we're going to meet at a branch where he will make a "cash" withdrawal that I will then deposit into my account. We will then proceed to where the tractor and everything is garaged and he will load up and take away.
It sounds like you have it covered 馃憤
 
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"as is" bill of sale on each separate item ......its the buyers responsibility to do his own due diligence........if i were the buyer and extremely skeptical i would call in the vin# to JD to check status, get the bill of sale notarized, and get a receipt for payment if not paid by check

just a question.......how is he going to pay you? ........how will you know if his check is good? ....point is you will have to do your diligence on that end

if its a large purchase/sale i always like to take a picture of the other parties drivers license and car plates for my records
I personally wouldn't let a private individual take a picture of my driver's license anymore than I would send a copy of it to a random stranger on the internet. How do I know that they are going to protect my personal information?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It sounds like you have it covered 馃憤
For the payment part, I'm comfortable with what we've agreed to. I just wanted to be able to provide as much useful docs as I could right at the start because going back after-the-fact is going to be a huge PITA (selling the house, putting things in storage, etc.). Seems that the doc we've put together and reviewed / agreed should be fine. I will mention that he could reach out to the selling dealer for more info if he wants it.

I personally wouldn't let a private individual take a picture of my driver's license anymore than I would send a copy of it to a random stranger on the internet. How do I know that they are going to protect my personal information?
License plates, no issue. Driver's license would be concerning because the license number itself is present and is potentially usable for identity theft. So, I have to agree that no one is taking a photo of my license.
 
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I personally wouldn't let a private individual take a picture of my driver's license anymore than I would send a copy of it to a random stranger on the internet. How do I know that they are going to protect my personal information?
While I agree with the sentiment and I don't trust random buyer/seller however when it's a high dollar item like a tractor or a vehicle, I will make an exceptions. In MD for example, there's no requirement (at least was when I was a resident) to get a BoS notarized and there's nothing that forces the buyer to ever put the vehicle in their name. Should that buyer do something illegal with the vehicle and it was never transferred to their name, that BoS would be all that you have to hopefully release you of liability, add in a copy of a DL or similar would provide some additional documentation to validate the claim. Granted this is negated with getting a notary, as they will get all that information and (in theory) store it safely.

So yea, I guess I do ultimately agree with you Trav 馃榾 and will likely start to use a notary when desirable and not a state requirement. (Like tractor sales...)
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
While I agree with the sentiment and I don't trust random buyer/seller however when it's a high dollar item like a tractor or a vehicle, I will make an exceptions. In MD for example, there's no requirement (at least was when I was a resident) to get a BoS notarized and there's nothing that forces the buyer to ever put the vehicle in their name. Should that buyer do something illegal with the vehicle and it was never transferred to their name, that BoS would be all that you have to hopefully release you of liability, add in a copy of a DL or similar would provide some additional documentation to validate the claim. Granted this is negated with getting a notary, as they will get all that information and (in theory) store it safely.

So yea, I guess I do ultimately agree with you Trav 馃榾 and will likely start to use a notary when desirable and not a state requirement. (Like tractor sales...)
The comment about having the BOS notarized got me thinking... Since we are both bank customers of the same bank, and they likely have a notary in the building, that might make sense to sign all of the papers right there in front of them and have it notarized / copied.
 

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While I agree with the sentiment and I don't trust random buyer/seller however when it's a high dollar item like a tractor or a vehicle, I will make an exceptions. In MD for example, there's no requirement (at least was when I was a resident) to get a BoS notarized and there's nothing that forces the buyer to ever put the vehicle in their name. Should that buyer do something illegal with the vehicle and it was never transferred to their name, that BoS would be all that you have to hopefully release you of liability, add in a copy of a DL or similar would provide some additional documentation to validate the claim. Granted this is negated with getting a notary, as they will get all that information and (in theory) store it safely.

So yea, I guess I do ultimately agree with you Trav 馃榾 and will likely start to use a notary when desirable and not a state requirement. (Like tractor sales...)
When I sell a car I have the buyer sign the title and often write up a bill of sale, have them sign that as well (because Indiana titles don't have the VIN or title number on the back of the title where the signatures are) and then take photos of both. Having the buyer sign the title stops them from jumping titles and provides me with some protection if they get in an accident or ticketed after the purchase.

When I was a dealer I made copies of driver's licenses as required by law but I don't do that as a private seller even though it would be nice to have that added protection.

Saving communications by e-mail and text is a good way to have additional records of transactions.

A notorized bill of sale is a great idea 馃憤
 

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It's unfortunate that there is so much d'baggery in the world that you even have to sweat how to protect yourself. Even Tim, of TTWT fame, was victimized by a cavalier auction site selling him a stolen tractor.
 

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I just take a picture of the bill of sale with their name, town and signature on it to take care of my liability.

In Maine every used sale is as is where is unless a seller provides a written warranty.

As a buyer you might want to see some proof of ownership, but as a seller, get their money and send them on their way. Those are the only two legitimate concerns. If you want proof, take a picture of the bill of sale, and their vehicle taking possession as they leave your driveway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I just take a picture of the bill of sale with their name, town and signature on it to take care of my liability.

In Maine every used sale is as is where is unless a seller provides a written warranty.

As a buyer you might want to see some proof of ownership, but as a seller, get their money and send them on their way. Those are the only two legitimate concerns. If you want proof, take a picture of the bill of sale, and their vehicle taking possession as they leave your driveway.
Yeah, every state has its own rules and such but I'm fortunate that the buyer is in-state (so I really only have to think about dumb laws from ONE place...lol). Good idea about taking a pic of them driving away with it loaded, too. Although I suspect I can go a step further and use the captured video off of my security cam in the front of the house of them loading and leaving. :)
 
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Yeah, every state has its own rules and such but I'm fortunate that the buyer is in-state (so I really only have to think about dumb laws from ONE place...lol). Good idea about taking a pic of them driving away with it loaded, too. Although I suspect I can go a step further and use the captured video off of my security cam in the front of the house of them loading and leaving. :)
You only have to deal with the state laws where the sale physically happens. It doesn鈥檛 matter where the buyer is from, or even where you鈥檙e from. Just where the transaction takes place.
 
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I certainly understand the sensitivity to a picture of a drivers license...I would comment that a notary in our area will normally review and/or take a photo copy of a driver's license for their records....main point is to verify identity and address should there be a problem .....as a example of a sale I will not perform without verification is a person to person gun sale as allowed in our state
 
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