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Discussion Starter #1
My home irrigation system has a PVC water pipe that runs under a driveway apron that is about 15 ft wide. Somewhere along that 15 ft length, under the driveway, this pipe is leaking. I want to replace it with a steel pipe to avoid this happening again. Since the Rear PTO of my JD 1025 spins parallel to the ground, I was wondering if there is some kind of parallel-to-the-ground auger that I could fit on this PTO to cut a path under the driveway apron for this steel pipe? Anybody have experience with that?

In the alternative, I am thinking about the possibility of using my Artillian Forks, or one thereof, to push the steel pipe underneath the driveway apron, assuming I can get a stable-enough connection between the pipe and the Fork to take full advantage of the power of the tractor.

I know there's a lot of suggestions on The Web about using a water hose forcefully squirting water to cut a path for this pipe underneath this concrete, but I'd like to avoid that mess if possible.

Does anybody have any experience in this kind of chore? Any suggestions appreciated.
 

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I use a pipe hooked to water all the time to go under sidewalks with irrigation and plumbing. I did a driveway that way once too. Normally on roads or driveways I use a pneumatic boring tool. I hook it up to an air compressor that will put out at least 185 cfm.

It does not take a lot of power with a rotary boring tool. I have a small boring machine which runs off a weed eater motor. I have bored over 40' under roads with that when tying into city water for customers. I even used it on one crossing which the pneumatic boring tool could not work because of stiff soils. It surprised me that the little weed eater boring tool did so well.

For a one time use I would either rent a boring tool or use water to jet through.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I use a pipe hooked to water all the time to go under sidewalks with irrigation and plumbing. I did a driveway that way once too. Normally on roads or driveways I use a pneumatic boring tool. I hook it up to an air compressor that will put out at least 185 cfm.

It does not take a lot of power with a rotary boring tool. I have a small boring machine which runs off a weed eater motor. I have bored over 40' under roads with that when tying into city water for customers. I even used it on one crossing which the pneumatic boring tool could not work because of stiff soils. It surprised me that the little weed eater boring tool did so well.

For a one time use I would either rent a boring tool or use water to jet through.
Thanks very much! Given your experience, I'll have to reconsider my idea of using the tractor fork or auger!
 

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I am not too sure about pushing it with a fork. I have never done it that way. Maybe someone else here has. It could go off course very easily on a push that way. Most likely you would end up with the line deeper at the exiting end unless you have a way of setting the tractor deeper in the ground so you can push straight. That would be a bigger mess than water jetting.

Possibly you can attach something on the end of the fork which will be lower in your trench so the pipe will be pushed straighter. What size pipe are you running?
 

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Tarzane, let me toss this out. Dig a hole on each side of the drive way, cut the pipe on each side of the drive way, backup the Deere and fasten a cable to one end of the pipe and then to the Deere, and on the other end of the pipe fasten a pull wire. Jump on the Deere and pull away when old pipe is removed fasten new pipe to pull cable and pull away. If pushing will not work, go with pulling.

Doug
 

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Tarzane, let me toss this out. Dig a hole on each side of the drive way, cut the pipe on each side of the drive way, backup the Deere and fasten a cable to one end of the pipe and then to the Deere, and on the other end of the pipe fasten a pull wire. Jump on the Deere and pull away when old pipe is removed fasten new pipe to pull cable and pull away. If pushing will not work, go with pulling.

Doug
Feed the cable through the old pipe, then pull (with the John Deere, of course) the new pipe through and the old pipe out, simultaneously.
 

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My home irrigation system has a PVC water pipe that runs under a driveway apron that is about 15 ft wide. Somewhere along that 15 ft length, under the driveway, this pipe is leaking.
Tarzane,

Why is the pipe leaking? I suspect it froze and cracked over the past winter. If that's the case, the new pipe should be installed deeper to avoid freezing temperatures. This may require removing some driveway and digging a trench at least 4' deep for the new pipe.
 

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Doug is right, if the you are able to string a cable through the old pipe, pulling the new pipe would be hands down much better than pushing. I should have thought of that. We rarely do it, but many companies do it for replacing municipal lines.

What part of Texas are you in? How deep is the line? Much of the subsurface pipe breaking in the majority of Texas has to do with expansive soil movement and moisture content. In west Texas or the panhandle there is not much soil movement. North Texas may get some freezing issues rarely subsurface. This may have been one of those rare subsurface years though.
 

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Doug is right, if the you are able to string a cable through the old pipe, pulling the new pipe would be hands down much better than pushing. I should have thought of that. We rarely do it, but many companies do it for replacing municipal lines.
This reminds me of an old South African joke. They have a character named Van de Merwe (pronounced MER-ve), and this guy is the butt of all jokes, and also the perpetrator of many .

Anyway, Van de Merwe is walking down the street pulling a piece of string and his friend stops him and says, "Van de Merwe, why are you pulling that piece of string down the street?" He responds, "Aw geeez, you are so stupid, have you ever tried pushing one???"
 

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Thanks RGD, I see where it is now. They have had some freezing weather in that area this year. I would not think it would have gone too deep into the ground. Tarzane may know the answer to that. The moisture swings we have had with the weather could have played a part in it also. A bad glued joint may be the issue.

I still agree if he can pull the new line in, that may be the easiest and least expensive solution.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I am not too sure about pushing it with a fork. I have never done it that way. Maybe someone else here has. It could go off course very easily on a push that way. Most likely you would end up with the line deeper at the exiting end unless you have a way of setting the tractor deeper in the ground so you can push straight. That would be a bigger mess than water jetting.

Possibly you can attach something on the end of the fork which will be lower in your trench so the pipe will be pushed straighter. What size pipe are you running?
I believe the cracked PVC pipe that's in there now is One Inch.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Tarzane,

Why is the pipe leaking? I suspect it froze and cracked over the past winter. If that's the case, the new pipe should be installed deeper to avoid freezing temperatures. This may require removing some driveway and digging a trench at least 4' deep for the new pipe.[/QUOTE/]

Thanks, Admaski, the pipe is right below the driveway concrete, which puts it about 5-6 inches deep. We don't get too much freezing weather here in Cen Texas so I think movement of rocks in the soil probably caused the thing to crack and leak. If I put a galvanized steel pipe in to replace the cracked PVC I'm pretty confident I won't have the problem again.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ultrapile, Doug and Myasis Dragon, thanks for the excellent idea on using cable to pull the old pipe out and the new one in! Killing two birds with one stone. What would be the best way to attached the cable to the end of the pipes - drill a hole through and through the end of the new pipe, and also through and through the old pipe, thread the cable through the two holes in each of the pipes, then run the long end of the cable inside, down the length of the old pipe and then out of it on the other side of the driveway, and attach the end of that to the tractor? Then pull the old pipe out with the new pipe hopefully following along?
 

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Maybe use a washer of some type so it applies even pressure on the end of the old plastic pipe then drill holes in the new metal pipe to fasten the cable to. Again just tossing it out there.

Doug
 

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Remember to cap off the end of the new pipe or you'll end up with a new pipe filled with earth and be back at square one...Cheers..good luck
 

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Threadin' the needle

I picture sliding enough cable through the old pipe to pass through both the old and the new pipes (and then some). Then, before passing the cable through the new pipe, slide a substantial and appropriately sized washer over the cable, butting it up to the backside of the old pipe. Tie a knot in the cable or install a cable clamp where it will hold the washer to keep it from sliding. Run the cable through the new pipe, keeping the new pipe as close to, if not tight up against the knot/washer as possible. This will help prevent soil from infiltrating you new pipe. Install another washer and tie another knot (or install a cable clamp) tight up against the butt end of the new pipe and pull it all through. Before you connect the new pipe, flush it out with a garden hose.

Sounds easy enough, but I'm sure it wall pull VERY hard, so make sure your washers and cable clamps/knots are stout and tight.

Some years ago, my entire neighborhood was forced to hook into city water and sewer. Our existing utilities (septic tank/water inlet) were located at the back of the house and we had to get them to the front of the house. I hired a horizontal boring company to come in and drill both utilities under the house. They ran the pipe and I did the hookups myself. Fun, fun, fun.
 

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I think that should work to pull it. I have not pulled one before, but I am very interested.

Once you have the steel pipe pulled into place, it would ne better to use steel female couples on the ends to connect the PVC to. PVC couplings over the steel pipe can tend to split or crack later. Threading the male end of a PVC fitting into the steel coupling is more secure for the long term. It requires 2 extra fittings, but makes for a better job. I hope you understand, I am not really explaining this well. :think:
 

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Myasis, well put! That was where I was going with it.

Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I think that should work to pull it. I have not pulled one before, but I am very interested.

Once you have the steel pipe pulled into place, it would ne better to use steel female couples on the ends to connect the PVC to. PVC couplings over the steel pipe can tend to split or crack later. Threading the male end of a PVC fitting into the steel coupling is more secure for the long term. It requires 2 extra fittings, but makes for a better job. I hope you understand, I am not really explaining this well. :think:
You explained it very well and I understand what you're saying. I appreciate your expertise on this. that is a very good tip on hooking pipe to PVC. I will let everyone know how I get this done and how it went. Thanks very much.
 
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