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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I really am preparing to buy a SCUT, most-likely a JD 1025R or Kubota BX23S.

I've also followed the RK24 and other makes, but when the reviewer/user is provided the equipment at no cost, I find I'm very skeptical of their comments. (Yes, they can tell you that they are honest, and are not just endorsing for the freebies, but that's hard to believe).

Why would they point out troubles, and lose their free ride/equipment, plus their risk of losing their YouTube revenue? This is not only true of the tractors and attatchments, but also such other "provided" equipment like chainsaws, log splitters, power tools, trailers, etc. I just wonder what others think.

Likewise, when someone has spent the $$$$ to buy a certain brand, they sure don't wanna admit they should have bought another brand, and bad-mouth other brands to justify their purchases, too.

Am I too skeptical? If I could find local owners, I'd probably trust THEIR reviews/comments more than an endorsed/funded/provided reviewer on YouTube.

I'm just a small acreage suburban "farmer", looking for HONEST opinions before I plunk down $20K+ for a SCUT and a couple of attatchments.


thanks in advance
 

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Personally, I have a very high level of confidence in suggestions and observations I see on Tractor Time with Tim. The only other significant YouTube tractor star I've seen is Neil Messick, and yeah...he's biased. But HE is actually a dealer. Bias is to be absolutely expected.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Yeah; I've watched nearly every "Tractor Time with Tim", "Messick's", "Outdoors with the Morgans", and several other SCUT videos for the past year or more. In fact, TTWT is what got me thinking that a SCUT would be a good addition to my 8N, Gravely 8199, JD 345, and ZT HD60. I also think that depending on how the SCUT works out, I may be able to empty my barn of the 8N, 8199, and 345, possibly.

I have about 6 acres to maintain, and about 1/3 of it is wooded. Landscape-type work around the property is my main activity to be addressed, along with trails and tree issues in the woods.
 

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I really am preparing to buy a SCUT, most-likely a JD 1025R or Kubota BX23S.

I've also followed the RK24 and other makes, but when the reviewer/user is provided the equipment at no cost, I find I'm very skeptical of their comments. (Yes, they can tell you that they are honest, and are not just endorsing for the freebies, but that's hard to believe).

Why would they point out troubles, and lose their free ride/equipment, plus their risk of losing their YouTube revenue? This is not only true of the tractors and attatchments, but also such other "provided" equipment like chainsaws, log splitters, power tools, trailers, etc. I just wonder what others think.

Likewise, when someone has spent the $$$$ to buy a certain brand, they sure don't wanna admit they should have bought another brand, and bad-mouth other brands to justify their purchases, too.

Am I too skeptical? If I could find local owners, I'd probably trust THEIR reviews/comments more than an endorsed/funded/provided reviewer on YouTube.

I'm just a small acreage suburban "farmer", looking for HONEST opinions before I plunk down $20K+ for a SCUT and a couple of attatchments.


thanks in advance
Tim is straight forward with his reviews. I don't disagree with your comments, but would add the companys know the weak points of their products. They test the heck out of them with many design reviews before they hit the market. It really boils down to price vs quality for them and a ton of other things. Pay attention to what they don't talk about to find the weaker points.
 

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I don't think there is a bad machine out there. You can watch the videos out there and take everything with a grain of salt. I would focus on the differences then go to a dealer and most will let you drive them around the lot if nothing else. Get your hands on the differences and see what your personal thoughts are.

A good example between JD and Kubota is how they each do forward/reverse. Very different approaches. Is one better than the other? They each make you move. What is more comfortable to you? Only you can answer that. My guess is there isn't much you will do with a machine that won't involve the forward reverse functions.

You can create a spreadsheet or take a bit of paper. Watch the videos and document where the machines differ. Then go to the dealer and see the difference in person. Put a check mark next to the one that works better for you, I would also at some point rank how important that feature it to you. Maybe the rear PTO is easier to attach on one vs the other but you have no plans for a rear PTO attachment. Well in that case note that it was easier on machine A but it is a low priority feature. That way if Machine B was easier for you to operate in forward/reverse but it was harder to hook up a PTO. Who cares, you are not using a PTO anyhow go with machine B.

You can watch the series from TTWT where he compared a Kubota to a JD.

John Deere 1025R vs. Kubota BX - YouTube

Is he 100% unbiased? I don't know, he is a member here and I find him pretty darn honest. If there is anything in the video series that could be looked at is a bias, it would be simply that he is comparing a machine which he has years of experience working with (the Deere) vs one he has little experience with but he is open about that and in several cases he posts a video then a second followup video based on comments from someone that has more experience with a Kubota. Maybe someone said, hey it is easier to do this task this way. I know the first time I put on the mower on my X585 I struggled. Heck I might struggle a bit now as it hasn't been on the machine in 3 years. Is a lack in understanding cause for blaming being biased? No I don't think so. Even if the Kubota he compared isn't the exact one you are considering, I feel this series is a good look at some of the differences in the brands to start to build the list of things that you need to compare in person.

Another channel which is good happens to be related to the series from TTWT. It is where he got the Kubota. While TTWT got the machine free, it was a loaner not from Kubota but from a dealer that focuses on the used (not new) market so he really doesn't have to answer to the parent company. That dealer is Good Works Tractor. Also a member here. I am sure he is also active on a Kubota dealer.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFM6-GiSuQMktuLoyJ2QUlA

In this case he is a dealer who sells both. Why would he bad mouth JD or Kubota when he sells them both?

Ultimately there is some personal leg work you need to perform. Find those differences, figure out which of those differences work better for you. That will guide you to the best machine for your use case. Will they lift things with a FEL, will they all clear snow, will they all pull a trailer? Yes on all cases.

If you want my opinion... Well green is my favorite color unless you are talking Packers. Then it is Purple. So clearly the best machine out there (clearly looking at it with no bias) is a Norwegian driving a John Deere. There is no other right answer.

:laugh:
 

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IMO, everyone should be a bit skeptical of any advertisement of anything. But there is a big difference between being skeptical and being cynical.

Go through the person's videos and see if they did a review on a product you are personally familiar with. Watch that. You can then see if the video review matches up with YOUR experience. If it does, then you can probably trust (to some degree) other videos that person makes. If they are overstating capabilities or making claims that don't hold up, well, then you know to expect that on their other videos as well.

Keep in mind also that a lot of these reviewers are being sent products by the manufacturer just to get their product out there. If I'm a manufacturer and people don't know my product exists, I'd send a few out anyway. Even if I get mediocre reviews people will suddenly know I exist. It's low cost advertising for me. I can always incorporate any complaints or suggestions into the "new and improved" version of my product.

For manufacturers there is a cost of acquire a new customer. Sending an implement to a YouTube reviewer is a whole lot cheaper then buying an ad in a national magazine or a national TV commercial. Sending equipment to a reviewer has it's trade offs. It's dirt cheap but you take your chances that you might not get great reviews.
 

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Believe? Yeah, I'd say you can believe them.

The ones I've watched (most listed above, TTWT, ODWTM, Messicks) tell you all the good about the products. They may not point out the negatives / flaws (Though TTWT is pretty good about the ones he sees) but they all show you what the product(s) can do.

For example, there are TTWT vids of Tim doing things with a 1025 that I wouldn't have thought the tractor could handle.
Is he biased to JD? possibly. BUT he still does the work/project with the equipment, thus proving what can be done.

Do they edit out failures, breakages, and issues. Maybe.

Bottom line:
Can we believe that the 1025R, 2038R, Ventrac, and whatever 5 series Tim has are good equipment? Yep.
Can we believe that the RK tractors and Stihl equipment that Mike Morgan runs are good products? Yep.
Can we believe that the Kubota equipment that Messicks sells is quality? Yep.

Know why? Because it is. None of them are saying "This is the product you need to buy, cause it's the best out there"
Instead, they are saying "this is what this product can do, do you need to be able to do this task? This product can help you."

So you want a SCUT.
Tim likes his 1025R.
Messicks likes their BX.
Mike likes his RK.

Are any of them wrong? Nope. It's like a Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge.
They give you the info, you the consumer have to make the educated decision on what is best for you based off of use, location, dealers, etc.
 

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I should add one more thing in all honesty.

I still stand by the fact that you are going to get down to nitpicking when comparing what is better however there is one other thing to look at that is a bigger deciding point.

DEALER SUPPORT

The one thing that would push me from green to some other color in a heartbeat is if there was no dealer support network that I could trust. If you have the best Kubota dealer in your back yard and all the JD dealers in 400 miles are crap, I would be driving orange. Afterall, they make spray paint...

Point being, really try and get a feel for dealer support. You can look at reviews. Again take them with a grain of salt. The people that complain are normally the ones that leave the most reviews. There are posts here about countless trips to the same dealer trying to fix that same problem where other dealers get it right the first time. I would rank that almost higher on my list than some of the minor differences. There are Kubota dealers in my area, none are as convenient as the JD dealer. The closest dealer to my house isn't a good dealer and I don't trust them. They are a standalone dealer but there is one close to my work that is a chain that is great.

You can hope and you may find that you get whatever machine home and never have an issue. It is when you do have an issue that you will need to lean on a good dealer. More importantly their support side of operations. Not sales. If they are good and can give you that support when you need them it is worth it.
 

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Yeah; I've watched nearly every "Tractor Time with Tim", "Messick's", "Outdoors with the Morgans", and several other SCUT videos for the past year or more. In fact, TTWT is what got me thinking that a SCUT would be a good addition to my 8N, Gravely 8199, JD 345, and ZT HD60. I also think that depending on how the SCUT works out, I may be able to empty my barn of the 8N, 8199, and 345, possibly.

I have about 6 acres to maintain, and about 1/3 of it is wooded. Landscape-type work around the property is my main activity to be addressed, along with trails and tree issues in the woods.
2025R ? (No pressure)


The thread linked does probably the most honest comparison I've seen, very straight forward like Gizmo said, and as unbiased as any videos I've seen.
To be honest I had a hard time with one of Tim's last statements where he recommended John Deere. I mean I would too but I wasn't doing the Video for people.
 

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Yeah; I've watched nearly every "Tractor Time with Tim", "Messick's", "Outdoors with the Morgans", and several other SCUT videos for the past year or more. In fact, TTWT is what got me thinking that a SCUT would be a good addition to my 8N, Gravely 8199, JD 345, and ZT HD60. I also think that depending on how the SCUT works out, I may be able to empty my barn of the 8N, 8199, and 345, possibly.

I have about 6 acres to maintain, and about 1/3 of it is wooded. Landscape-type work around the property is my main activity to be addressed, along with trails and tree issues in the woods.
With this work I would watch ground clearance and how they protect steering components and such on the front axle.

I agree with the comment that I would lean toward 2025R or if you don't need a mid mower or front PTO consider a 3025E. For the money a 3025E is a lot of tractor. By stepping up to the 3E, you are talking same money and get two hydraulic pumps which would help in the woods, a boost in lifting capability. Full CAT1 3pt not limited. That is the direction I want to go since I have a Z950R for all my mowing needs. I want to say it would be less money than a 2025R. Not a huge difference but a couple thousand less as a guess.

I just don't know the Kubota line to make recommendations or comments there.
 

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I'm big on reading reviews for products I am interested in.

I would figure out what size machine best fits your needs and budget then search specifically for each model. You can bet if one has a history of a certain problem someone has posted a review or asked for advice on it.

I certainly wouldn't make a choice based on views from monitized YouTube channels. I'm not saying any of them would be misleading. Just that I would not make them my soul avenue for comparison.
 

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I'm big on reading reviews for products I am interested in.

I would figure out what size machine best fits your needs and budget then search specifically for each model. You can bet if one has a history of a certain problem someone has posted a review or asked for advice on it.

I certainly wouldn't make a choice based on views from monitized YouTube channels. I'm not saying any of them would be misleading. Just that I would not make them my soul avenue for comparison.
I'm also big on reviews. I always read the bad reviews first, some bad reviews are just stupid IMO, some so called bad things mentioned in a bad review I simply don't care about.
 

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If you give a little bit about your acreage and the work you want to do, there are more than qualified people right here that can give you their knowledge and advice free of charge.
 

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2025R ? (No pressure)



To be honest I had a hard time with one of Tim's last statements where he recommended John Deere. I mean I would too but I wasn't doing the Video for people.
The 2025 would be my pick too :lol: But honestly, after having both, I would never buy another 1 series now.

There is almost always going to some bias that "leaks" through IMO.
 

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I try to find unsponsored reviews and ones that are not from paid journalists.
That can be hard to do.
If you go to forums, you will encounter bias (which is to be expected) at one end, and contempt that you would "even consider something else" at the other extreme.
I really try to find out what problems people have had and the solutions. This where forums shine.
 

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I should add one more thing in all honesty.

I still stand by the fact that you are going to get down to nitpicking when comparing what is better however there is one other thing to look at that is a bigger deciding point.

DEALER SUPPORT

The one thing that would push me from green to some other color in a heartbeat is if there was no dealer support network that I could trust. If you have the best Kubota dealer in your back yard and all the JD dealers in 400 miles are crap, I would be driving orange. Afterall, they make spray paint...

Point being, really try and get a feel for dealer support. You can look at reviews. Again take them with a grain of salt. The people that complain are normally the ones that leave the most reviews. There are posts here about countless trips to the same dealer trying to fix that same problem where other dealers get it right the first time. I would rank that almost higher on my list than some of the minor differences. There are Kubota dealers in my area, none are as convenient as the JD dealer. The closest dealer to my house isn't a good dealer and I don't trust them. They are a standalone dealer but there is one close to my work that is a chain that is great.

You can hope and you may find that you get whatever machine home and never have an issue. It is when you do have an issue that you will need to lean on a good dealer. More importantly their support side of operations. Not sales. If they are good and can give you that support when you need them it is worth it.
I couldn’t agree more. My green dealer is three miles away. Orange would have been 60 miles one direction or 90 the other. There was an upstart dealer here pedaling Chinese stuff when I started. He is still here, though he has changed brands three times. My green dealer has not always been the warmest and fuzziest- yet always reliable and efficient. That has warmed up over time. As I changed my highly visible rough field into a regularly mowed yard it has generated a lot of interest in what I was using. I have inadvertently referred a lot of business. My non-Youtube endorsements carry their own bias as well. Live and learn. Your mileage may vary.
 

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Guys, I can say that we do our best to be honest and accurate.

On the surface, it might seem that I would favor a product because of sponsorship. But let’s dig a bit deeper...

First, I can’t speak for anyone else. These comments are only from my perspective.

My reputation is more important to me than any single sponsorship. If I misrepresent any product, then the viewers will not trust me, and vendors will not trust me. Without trust, our entire business dies.

Many (most) times, our sponsored products are hand picked. Often it is a product we were already using like Deere, or Artillian. So, we already know and love the product. So, it might appear that we are biased because of the sponsorship when it reality it is reversed. We are sponsored because of our passion for the product.

We specifically avoid certain products because we do not like how they work, or on some cases, we don’t agree with the ethical standards of the company. So, the selection process happens behind the scenes, with the rejected products never making their way into our videos.

Like you guys, I watch and read reviews. I want a review to tell me what I need to know...something that is either not obvious, or not mentioned in the specs at all. Things that will help me see if it will work for me. That is what we try to do.

We won’t badmouth a product on our channel. There is no point in that. However, we will point out things we don’t like, or things that don’t work well for us. We have done that on each of the tractors we have.

I really don’t know how we could be more open about our experiences.

To summarize, we will commit to you to be as accurate, fair, and honest as we can possibly be.
We’ll fail at times, but we’ll own up to it and move on.

I hope that helps to explain what is going on at least on TTWT!

Thanks For watching!
 
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