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I started trying CBD for back pain. Didn't help, but what it did do is completely wipe out the restless legs I've dealt with since my teens.

I get an extra 2-3 hours sleep per night. That's worth the price of admission for me. The outfit we buy from offers a steady 60% off for veterans, low income, etc.

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I’ve been suffering with restless legs since I was diagnosed with RA years ago. It is a known complication of RA. I take a prescription med which has relived it by 90% thank goodness. I don’t wish that on anyone!
 

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T
If I have to use that high of a dose, the cost would be prohibitive. That would equate to about $50 to $60 a week.
This is why a lot of people don’t use it or stop because it’s expensive.
Simply, it takes high doses to show effects. This roll on I got for my wife and I works wonders and is the best topical I’ve ever used. Notice the strength
729560

It’s like what Icy Hot should feel like. I got some nasty neck arthritis among other things and this is the only thing that will touch it in terms of any pain relief. Have the wife roll it on at night before bed and I sleep like a baby. You gotta use a lot of that stuff for it to work, and still it’s no opiate type drug. I don’t like opiates because they mask over the problem and make me all queezy. This stuff dulls it just enough to get my attention away from it for an hr or so, so I can get to sleep. I’ve even used it on my plantar fasciitis flare ups and it is effective there. As far as the oil, I only use it for my anxiety which triggers my anger. I found larger doses are more effective.
Not 150 mg a day doses, but I’ve taken around 100 before on stressful days. As far as pain relief, the oil really doesn’t do much for me except full my hand arthritis and I’m ok with that bonus. This stuff isn’t the end all beat all, but if you can afford it, and want results, you gotta be prepared to use a lot of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Kbar,

Thanks for the input. I'll definitely keep that product in mind for when I run out of my current balm. Charlotte's Web hemp balm contains only 450ml per ounce compared to your's having 750ml, but it's very effective.
cbd-topical-balm-hemp-seal.jpg
 

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Ive been taking Kratom the past few weeks and it does a better pain management that the CBD. There are multiple strains off the plant and this one seems to take the edge off while helping me wind down for the night. This is just a link but I get it from a local guy who sells me CBD. Im also a skeptic on things I put into my body, and haven't found any bad things ab out it, but maybe Maccool can chime in if there's anything that looks sketchy. So far I like it. There are different strains of the plant and I also take the white during the day when im busy. Its all natural and a lot cheaper than CBD.

bumble-bee-red-borneo-capsule
 

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Ive been taking Kratom the past few weeks and it does a better pain management that the CBD. There are multiple strains off the plant and this one seems to take the edge off while helping me wind down for the night. This is just a link but I get it from a local guy who sells me CBD. Im also a skeptic on things I put into my body, and haven't found any bad things ab out it, but maybe Maccool can chime in if there's anything that looks sketchy. So far I like it. There are different strains of the plant and I also take the white during the day when im busy. Its all natural and a lot cheaper than CBD.

bumble-bee-red-borneo-capsule
I would imagine in your line of work, there could be some random drug testing especially if there is a work place accident. I would also imagine you have either additional endorsements on your drivers license or depending upon how they do it in your state, different classes of licenses for heavy equipment, etc.

That's the one concern I would have about taking things which aren't coming through the physician, especially if the item could have a banned substance at the federal level. If you are taking something which is prescribed and there is a medical necessity, testing positive for it isn't the issue it can be if there is no physician prescribed oversight.

Those who take different meds which are controlled substances are often tested by the prescribing doctor to make sure the meds they are prescribing to you are in your system. This cuts down on diversion, etc. and also provides a legal justification as to why you have those substances in your system. It's as big an issue to not have some prescribed drugs in your system as it is to have things in your system which aren't prescribed.
 

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Ive been taking Kratom the past few weeks and it does a better pain management that the CBD. There are multiple strains off the plant and this one seems to take the edge off while helping me wind down for the night. This is just a link but I get it from a local guy who sells me CBD. Im also a skeptic on things I put into my body, and haven't found any bad things ab out it, but maybe Maccool can chime in if there's anything that looks sketchy. So far I like it. There are different strains of the plant and I also take the white during the day when im busy. Its all natural and a lot cheaper than CBD.

bumble-bee-red-borneo-capsule
Kratom isn't an opioid, but it does attach to opioid receptors in the brain and can cause many of the same euphoric and hallucinatory effects. It has a lot of potential side effect. It's illegal in some states, but not addressed by the DEA on any of the drug schedules. It may or may not show up on urine or blood drug screens (depends on the test and the reagents used), but if it does, it will show up as an opioid, in which case you could conceivably have to explain how you have detectable opioid in your blood without a prescription for opioids.
 

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After a discussion with our contract drug test technician, I posted a notice to all employees to avoid CBD products regardless of what they read or are told.
 

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Interesting. It’s not illegal here and I was informed it would pass a urine test. There is no weird high feeling like in other substances except a slight mood enhancing and only for a little bit if that makes sense.
 

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After a discussion with our contract drug test technician, I posted a notice to all employees to avoid CBD products regardless of what they read or are told.
Why?
 

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It isn't illegal in Pennsylvania either. The drug tester explained it to me pretty much the same as MacCool did. The CBD could have THC in the compound. The CBD is not regulated and therefore there is no standard to meet. Makes no sense at all to me, but I know our employer doesn't want a driver to piss hot on a drug test for something that can be prevented.
 

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I'm also in Ohio and can tell you that finding a "doctor willing to prescribe it" is pretty easy! I was asked by someone close to me to be their "caregiver" for the medical marijuana program. This person suffers from chronic migraines and some other ailments and wanted to try medical marijuana as some of the more conventional treatments weren't working. Her primary care doc recommended that she look into it, but she wasn't the one that actually "prescribed" it.

We went to a little office in a small office strip center. Not completely sketchy, but certainly not a high dollar operation. Filled out some paperwork and then went back to have a consultation with a nurse practitioner. My friend brought all of her medical records, prescription history, etc. with her and the NP never once asked for it or looked at it. At least the NP did recommend what kind of THC/CBD ratio to look at for migraines but never wrote a formal prescription. She then signed off on some paperwork and then (here's where it got pretty weird...) referred us to a DOCTOR's office in the next strip center over. HUH???? Yup, the NP has to work under the supervision of a real doctor, so a doctor has to sign off on it. So we walked across the parking lot and found the doctor's office. Told the receptionist that we were referred by the pot NP and had a seat in the waiting room. They took us back and a foreign, female doctor comes into the room, asks a couple of questions and signs the paperwork. My friend asked a few questions (don't remember the specific questions) and then the doc actually went and got her stethoscope and listened to her heart and lungs. And off we went.... About 4 days later she got her medical marijuana card emailed to her and I got my "caregiver" card emailed to me. Bottom line - no real examine or follow-up required. A mere $250 and now she can legally buy and smoke pot and I can also legally buy it for her. Quite frankly, it was pretty much a joke.

You are correct that supply is low and limited. What we found is that most of the "dispensaries" are selling stuff that's way high in THC and not so much CBD. That's just the opposite of what was recommended by the NP. Visiting the dispensaries was an experience as well. You have to be escorted into the "show room" but they give you a "menu of products" to look over before you go in. And, yes, the terms that I quoted is the terminology that they use. Most of the people in the waiting room looked like old stoners.

My friend didn't want to actually smoke anything so she opted for some gummies and also a vape. Wouldn't you know it - about 2 weeks after she bought the vape (which wasn't helping too much anyway) all the news broke about the people with unexplained lung infections but the common denominator was that they were vaping stuff with THC oil in it. So she stopped using it! Oh, well.

If anyone finds CBD oil that actually works for joint pain, I'd like to know the name brands and where to get it. Sweetie suffers from fibromyalgia and I'd love to try some stuff for her. We've tried some creams on some of her sore areas, but it doesn't seem to help much. I'm actually looking at switching to a "plant based diet" like MeagerHair did to try and help her out. That's going to me tough for me as someone who loves nothing better than smoking ribs or chicken on my Big Green Egg!

It's all about the "fees". We have local cities which are charging a $10,000 non refundable "application fee" to be considered for the dispensaries and the "growing" facilities they are going to allow to operate in their jurisdiction. The common denominators so far in our area have been the towns you want to live in, want no part of the process and have passed laws or made decisions that it wouldn't be allowed in their city, village, township, etc. limits.

The municipalities which have moved forward with accepting applications, etc. are all desperate for the taxes and fees they can collect and are already quite "unsavory". One town, which has less than 300 people, is going to allow up to 6 facilities in their town to sell weed. Now, it is a little different because the weed is not just medicinal, its also "recreational". But still, they are going to need to change the name of their town's "bidness district" to "Weed Street", from the traditional "main street".

Sounds like the strip mall "facilities" you went to are just another version of a "pill mill", for the weed products. I am sure there was a comprehensive background check and mandatory continuing educational program in place for you to become a caregiver, right? It was entirely centered upon your ability to pay the $250 fee.

The fact that your friend had records and actually asked a question or two, likely raised red flags with the "doctor" who you had to see to sign the forms, which is probably why the stethoscope and what ever other attempts were made to make the visit seem more "legit", took place. The majority of the time, the people in seeking the products very likely are like your description of the customer base in the "showrooms".....I think it was "old stoners"?

When Michigan had just the medical marijuana program and they had the "dispensaries" for selling to those customers with the valid physician involved "card of necessity", every single dispensary which opened within a 50 mile radius would eventually get raided and shut down, for having sold to someone without the medical card. Some places made it longer than others, but eventually every one would fall into this trap. I don't think any were in business longer than 2 years. It surely wasn't the "easy money" thing which many going into the business apparently thought it would be.
 

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but I know our employer doesn't want a driver to piss hot on a drug test for something that can be prevented.
There are numerous jokes that beg to be told with that comment, but I will leave that to Dr, Malphesto......

Hey Don, what's with the two question marks behind your name at the bottom of your posts, above the signature line?
 

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It isn't illegal in Pennsylvania either. The drug tester explained it to me pretty much the same as MacCool did. The CBD could have THC in the compound. The CBD is not regulated and therefore there is no standard to meet. Makes no sense at all to me, but I know our employer doesn't want a driver to piss hot on a drug test for something that can be prevented.
To clarify...kratom has nothing to do with CBD, nor is it in any way related to marijuana. It has no THC. It's a completely different category of drug. The DEA wants it moved into schedule 1 with marijuana and heroin but their attempt to do so was met with lot of public and congressional resistance. Here's some of the background on kratom.


 

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MacCool, thanks for the Mayo Clinic article. It sounds like there are more unknowns than knowns with Kratom. The trouble with any of the usual sources of Kratom is that like street drugs; one has no real guarantee that what you're buying is what is advertised. This is where SANE regulation backed up by valid scientific research is needed. I'm skeptical of the DEA's motives for wanting to move Kratom to the Schedule 1 list.
 

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MacCool, thanks for the Mayo Clinic article. It sounds like there are more unknowns than knowns with Kratom. The trouble with any of the usual sources of Kratom is that like street drugs; one has no real guarantee that what you're buying is what is advertised. This is where SANE regulation backed up by valid scientific research is needed. I'm skeptical of the DEA's motives for wanting to move Kratom to the Schedule 1 list.
Yes, that's the problem with homeopathy in general. Pharmaceutical manufacture quality/safety and testing for efficacy isn't done on that stuff, so you can never really be sure what you're getting when you buy kratom, marijuana (where it's legal) or CBD oil. To be legal as CBD, is has to contain less than .03% THC. Some states, like Minnesota, CBD can only be derived from hemp and has to contain zero THC which does rob the stuff of some of the supposedly "beneficial" compounds like terpenoids and flavenoids. OTOH, in Minnesota, when various brands of CBD oil has been randomly sampled, there is a worrisome (to the Attorney General's Office") number of them that do have detectable THC. I've never heard of there being enough to get any buzz, but some might have enough THC to get a positive urine test. Is that a big deal? Certainly not to me, but the Attorney General in Minnesota does get bent out of shape about it, and depending on one's employer and their random drug testing protocol, it could be an issue.

As to kratom, it probably has more psychogenic effect and certainly less manufacturing rigor than marijuana, which of course is also on the DEA's Schedule 1. Honestly, I don't really understand why marijuana is on Schedule 1. It makes more sense for kratom to be there than marijuana.
 

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Thanks for this discussion, it's been very informative. It's nice to have some medical professionals as GTT members who quote both the law and medical science involved. I'm surprised that no one mentioned the possible positive drug tests from eating poppy seeds on a Kaiser Roll.

I'm not about to admit my own history on this or any other social media site, but the THC content of today's offerings is very much higher than that of three or four decades ago.

My advice is to do what works for you, real or psychosomatic,

If your joints are stiff in the morning, then maybe you're rolling them too tightly!

Brian
 

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There are numerous jokes that beg to be told with that comment, but I will leave that to Dr, Malphesto......

Hey Don, what's with the two question marks behind your name at the bottom of your posts, above the signature line?
It is supposed to be an American Flag, but at some point it disappeared and the question marks appeared. I really need to fix it. 🇺🇸
To clarify...kratom has nothing to do with CBD, nor is it in any way related to marijuana. It has no THC. It's a completely different category of drug. The DEA wants it moved into schedule 1 with marijuana and heroin but their attempt to do so was met with lot of public and congressional resistance. Here's some of the background on kratom.


Thank you.
 

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Agreed. Thank you Maccool for chiming in and being very informative. I do have prescriptions of opioids but I can’t stand them. I am in a lot of pain all the time, but I’m stubborn and want to keep chugging along without being zoned out or having other complications. Also, I cannot operate heavy equipment on them. There is always a price to pay when taking any drug imo, and I don’t want to mask the pain. I want to understand where it’s coming from and try to fix it. I have fixed a lot of my issues by research, and trying different techniques. Again, masking the pain is a no no in my book. To me, it’s more dangerous because it’ll get worse without a positive outlook on how to move forward. But, as I get older, my ailments seem to stack up on me, and a little help is all I’m asking to get going again so I been trying different things. There’s also the anger issues I’ve been dealing with the past decade and every time my doc prescribed me an anti depressant it wigs me out and I quit trying that route. Life is busy, and spending a large amount of my time in the doctors office is maddening to me and I’m not anticipating it when I get older. I have a very demanding job, and need to stay focused or things go downhill. There isn’t one perfect pill, or oil, or whatever, but I’m willing to experiment to stay running and do what works for the moment. The opioid showing in my urine is an eye opener and I am going to check into that. This is a balancing beam I walk every day to try and perform safely and under the law without being pissed off all the time and in constant pain.
 

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Kbar:

Do antidepressants cause adverse side effects for you, or is it the thought of taking them? If I'm being too nosy, just say so as I understand.
 
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