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Discussion Starter #1
Is it a "no-no" to fill the backhoe bucket with heavy material to get extra counter weight when using maximum forklift weight on the front end? By filling the 12" bucket with a bag or "slugs" of lead - would that be too heavy and mess something up on the backhoe when driving around over bumpy ground?
 

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I would think you will be fine for situations that require it, but I would not want it in there any other time.
 
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If you have the BH attached to the tractor, the BH is plenty of ballast for the FEL with forks attached. These machines will only pick about 850 lbs. with forks if you keep the load close to the carriage.
 
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If you have the BH attached to the tractor, the BH is plenty of ballast for the FEL with forks attached. These machines will only pick about 850 lbs. with forks if you keep the load close to the carriage.
I was transporting full 49" buckets of muck last summer with my backhoe on and the load only high enough to keep the material in the loader and had some real pucker moments when crossing uneven terrain, This was not hard to lift the bucket so not fully maximum capacity but close. I could see why the op might be contemplating more rear ballast if he is not just moving things a short distance on level ground.
 

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If you have the BH attached to the tractor, the BH is plenty of ballast for the FEL with forks attached. These machines will only pick about 850 lbs. with forks if you keep the load close to the carriage.
Ray,
The 4:50 mark of this video shows the backhoe being insufficient ballast for the load I had on the front.
I suspect this load was well north of 1000 lbs, as I couldn't lift it any higher than I had it there.
Oh, and I have Rimguard loaded tires, and the 50lb wheel weights. The backhoe is just not enough in these extreme loads, at least for my tractor.

 

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It's 50/50 does the BH add ballast yes,because of the design is it top heavy,yes on a slope can you swing the BH to one side and lower the stabilizers to help counter yes is it the best way no.If you were doing loader work the BH can make the tractor feel tippy.In this situation weight on the 3 pt set halfway or lower is a better safer option.
 

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More is almost always better, when it comes to ballast.

I've thrown a couple of 95 lb lead weights in the backhoe bucket before. It was all the difference I needed. The extra weight is low and provides good ballast.
 

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When I am lifting heavy loads I just hook my 600# tiller on the back of the quick hitch. That will counter anything my bucket can lift.
In fact with I have to use the tiller I load 5-6 cinder blocks in the loader for front ballast.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Ray,
The 4:50 mark of this video shows the backhoe being insufficient ballast for the load I had on the front.
I suspect this load was well north of 1000 lbs, as I couldn't lift it any higher than I had it there.
Oh, and I have Rimguard loaded tires, and the 50lb wheel weights. The backhoe is just not enough in these extreme loads, at least for my tractor.
And Tim - did I notice correctly that you then extended the backhoe farther out the back to help with the balancing act???
 

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Ray,
The 4:50 mark of this video shows the backhoe being insufficient ballast for the load I had on the front.
I suspect this load was well north of 1000 lbs, as I couldn't lift it any higher than I had it there.
Oh, and I have Rimguard loaded tires, and the 50lb wheel weights. The backhoe is just not enough in these extreme loads, at least for my tractor.
My opinion, you are overloaded. I would simply make an extra trip instead of testing the limits of the machine. I agree with your last sentence.
 

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Ray,
The 4:50 mark of this video shows the backhoe being insufficient ballast for the load I had on the front.
I suspect this load was well north of 1000 lbs, as I couldn't lift it any higher than I had it there.
Oh, and I have Rimguard loaded tires, and the 50lb wheel weights. The backhoe is just not enough in these extreme loads, at least for my tractor.

Dude in the black disappeared pretty quick. LOL As soon as the work showed up. I didn't think he was coming back. LOL
 
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Ray,
The 4:50 mark of this video shows the backhoe being insufficient ballast for the load I had on the front.
I suspect this load was well north of 1000 lbs, as I couldn't lift it any higher than I had it there.
Oh, and I have Rimguard loaded tires, and the 50lb wheel weights. The backhoe is just not enough in these extreme loads, at least for my tractor.

There needed to be more weight on the back. But if the tractor would have been in four wheel drive, the rear wheels would not have spun like they did. I am surprised the loader lifted that much weight.
 

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There needed to be more weight on the back. But if the tractor would have been in four wheel drive, the rear wheels would not have spun like they did. I am surprised the loader lifted that much weight.
Yes, I had to put it in 4wd to continue.
I don't like running in 4wd normally because of the turning radius penalty.
 

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Is it a "no-no" to fill the backhoe bucket with heavy material to get extra counter weight when using maximum forklift weight on the front end? By filling the 12" bucket with a bag or "slugs" of lead - would that be too heavy and mess something up on the backhoe when driving around over bumpy ground?
Not at all.
We do it all the time with the big backhoes.
Though most times it's grabbing a jag of stone or dirt in front bucket for extra counterweight when setting, picking or traveling with something hanging from backhoe.
You can't really get a lot of extra weight in a backhoe bucket , unless you put lead in it like you say.
Your issue then is are you overloading the loader/forks to begin with?:dunno:
 
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Is it a "no-no" to fill the backhoe bucket with heavy material to get extra counter weight when using maximum forklift weight on the front end? By filling the 12" bucket with a bag or "slugs" of lead - would that be too heavy and mess something up on the backhoe when driving around over bumpy ground?
Good question.
My perspective is, unless the backhoe outriggers are down, no weight in the bucket.
 

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I tested my FEL with Artillian 36" forks when I poured the ramp in the rear of my garage. I just wanted to see how much the FEL with Artillian forks would lift.
I had 80 lb. bags of quikrete. I stacked 11 bags on a pallet keeping the weight close to the carriage. I could lift this load about 12", that was it. I could tilt it but not lift it. I could not lift 12 bags off the ground far enough to move it. The JD advertised capacity of the H120 FEL is 512 lbs.
http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/home-workshop-projects/54554-new-garage-project-post1019537.html#post1019537

Kennyd posted these specs several years ago for the H120 FEL. As he indicated, the FEL is rated at full lift but has different capacities at different angles (heights) of lift. This has all to do with the angle between the loader lift cylinders and the loader frame.
http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/sub-compact-utility-tractors-scut/9960-1025r-h120-lift-capacity-underrated.html#post89025

The 260 BH weighs 604 lbs. with the 12" bucket. The required rear ballast when using the FEL is 601 lb. with the rear tires filled. Also, the BH center of gravity is at least as far behind the center of the front wheels as the JB ballast box is when hanging on the 3 point. This simply means, the BH provides at least as much rear ballast as the JD recommended ballast when using the FEL.
Specifications - 260 Backhoe

And.....the H120 operators manual indicates, when using the FEL:
CAUTION: To help prevent personal injury or death caused by tractor rollover, install rollover protective structure (ROPS) and add proper ballast to tractor.
  • Equip tractor with rollover protective structure (ROPS) and wear your seatbelt.
  • Be sure tractor tread widths and rear ballast is correct before using the loader.
  • If tractor is equipped with 4-WD, be sure it is engaged during loader operation.
  • Carry load low to the ground.
  • Use low tractor speeds.
  • Stop loader gradually when lowering or lifting loads.
  • Avoid traveling across slopes.
  • Refer to the tractor Operator’s Manual for safe operating practices.
OMW54643

One rear wheel spinning when using the FEL with a heavy load does not indicate that you do not have enough ballast. It indicates you lost traction which can occur for lots of reasons. Simply steering the front wheels causes more resistance to movement. This is why 4-WD must be used whenever you use the FEL, especially when using the FEL at or above capacity.
Obviously, when you load the FEL to full capacity, you are transferring weight from the rear of the tractor to the front wheels which means you are transferring some weight off the rear tires which can cause traction loss. Again, this is why you use 4-WD and rear ballast.

Using too much rear ballast can cause the reverse effect when the FEL is unloaded meaning the front end could get light.

As some others have said, using the FEL has to be done with care. You have to evaluate what you are going to do and where you are doing it before doing it. If you are in un-level areas or rough terrain, slow and steady using 4-WD and also, make more trips rather than maxing out the FEL.
 

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I tested my FEL with Artillian 36" forks when I poured the ramp in the rear of my garage. I just wanted to see how much the FEL with Artillian forks would lift.
I had 80 lb. bags of quikrete. I stacked 11 bags on a pallet keeping the weight close to the carriage. I could lift this load about 12", that was it. I could tilt it but not lift it. I could not lift 12 bags off the ground far enough to move it. The JD advertised capacity of the H120 FEL is 512 lbs.
http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/home-workshop-projects/54554-new-garage-project-post1019537.html#post1019537

Kennyd posted these specs several years ago for the H120 FEL. As he indicated, the FEL is rated at full lift but has different capacities at different angles (heights) of lift. This has all to do with the angle between the loader lift cylinders and the loader frame.
http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/sub-compact-utility-tractors-scut/9960-1025r-h120-lift-capacity-underrated.html#post89025

The 260 BH weighs 604 lbs. with the 12" bucket. The required rear ballast when using the FEL is 601 lb. with the rear tires filled. Also, the BH center of gravity is at least as far behind the center of the front wheels as the JB ballast box is when hanging on the 3 point. This simply means, the BH provides at least as much rear ballast as the JD recommended ballast when using the FEL.
Specifications - 260 Backhoe

And.....the H120 operators manual indicates, when using the FEL:
CAUTION: To help prevent personal injury or death caused by tractor rollover, install rollover protective structure (ROPS) and add proper ballast to tractor.
  • Equip tractor with rollover protective structure (ROPS) and wear your seatbelt.
  • Be sure tractor tread widths and rear ballast is correct before using the loader.
  • If tractor is equipped with 4-WD, be sure it is engaged during loader operation.
  • Carry load low to the ground.
  • Use low tractor speeds.
  • Stop loader gradually when lowering or lifting loads.
  • Avoid traveling across slopes.
  • Refer to the tractor Operator’s Manual for safe operating practices.
OMW54643

One rear wheel spinning when using the FEL with a heavy load does not indicate that you do not have enough ballast. It indicates you lost traction which can occur for lots of reasons. Simply steering the front wheels causes more resistance to movement. This is why 4-WD must be used whenever you use the FEL, especially when using the FEL at or above capacity.
Obviously, when you load the FEL to full capacity, you are transferring weight from the rear of the tractor to the front wheels which means you are transferring some weight off the rear tires which can cause traction loss. Again, this is why you use 4-WD and rear ballast.

Using too much rear ballast can cause the reverse effect when the FEL is unloaded meaning the front end could get light.

As some others have said, using the FEL has to be done with care. You have to evaluate what you are going to do and where you are doing it before doing it. If you are in un-level areas or rough terrain, slow and steady using 4-WD and also, make more trips rather than maxing out the FEL.
Ray,

Didn't mean to offend.

I can explain the differences in lift capacity. I bought Ken's pressure gauge, and 'optimized' my hydraulics.

Tim
 

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Ray,

Didn't mean to offend.

I can explain the differences in lift capacity. I bought Ken's pressure gauge, and 'optimized' my hydraulics.

Tim
All good!! No offense taken. Just wanted to clarify that too much rear ballast can cause other issues.
 
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Don't know what all the math is about. For me I go with what the tractor can do safely. I don't care what the books say because they don't do what I do on the terrain I do it on. If it's safe and the tractor can do it, I do it. If not I find another way to do it. If I need more weight on the front or back I put it there. Simple. If it feels like it's going to tip sideways, I don't do it. I'll go at it a different way. What more is there to know? Pucker power is by far safer then any book I've ever read.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
My opinion, you are overloaded. I would simply make an extra trip instead of testing the limits of the machine. I agree with your last sentence.
To explain my application better. I plan on building cages on pallets for firewood drying and storage. So getting a maximum amount on each pallet is important to save on limited storage space - and because storage time will be a couple of years minimum while drying.

These weights will be hard to gauge (different woods, different dryness) - and in addition they will hopefully be much lighter after a couple of years drying. I can even use the loader and dump additional wood on top of the cages, once in place, hoping to be able to move them after they have dried. So, I wanted to avoid constantly having to lighten loads by hand (if too heavy) which will kind of defeat the purpose of hoping to save on the handling by using pallets.

I thought in those instances where I am maxing out - if the "weight in the bucket trick" would be safe and not damage anything - and also save time by not having to unload firewood piece by piece.

I didn't know if placing the "travel" pins in the backhoe would help prevent any damage, that I thought might be an issue with the weighted backhoe wanting to swing back and forth while traversing bumpy terrain. Is that even a good idea that might help prevent damage???
 
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