Green Tractor Talk banner

21 - 40 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
904 Posts
Ok, I'm a little confused here. Exactly what scenario while mowing causes the engine to shut down as long as you're siting normally in the seat? When I'm backing up with the mower running, I press and hold the rocker switch down, I continue mowing in reverse. If I release the rocker switch while pressure is still on the reverse peddle, mine just disengages the pto and the engine is still running. The only time my engine shuts down is when my butt gets light on the seat from leaning to far forward to see something. I have a 2018 1025r. Has something changed on either the older or newer models?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,639 Posts
Ok, I'm a little confused here. Exactly what scenario while mowing causes the engine to shut down as long as you're siting normally in the seat? When I'm backing up with the mower running, I press and hold the rocker switch down, I continue mowing in reverse. If I release the rocker switch while pressure is still on the reverse peddle, mine just disengages the pto and the engine is still running. The only time my engine shuts down is when my butt gets light on the seat from leaning to far forward to see something. I have a 2018 1025r. Has something changed on either the older or newer models?
I have to admit, after reading the back and forth, I am confused as well. I do think that getting off the tractor without sitting the parking brake is a poor idea, just as I don't think you should leave the transfer case in gear and be able to get off the tractor. Just imagine if you bypassed those safety features, you could crawl on and off the tractor with the transfer case in either low or high with the engine running. If you were to bump either of the forward or reverse pedals with your foot while getting positioned on the seat, the tractor could move very suddenly.

I don't have a MMM nor will I ever plan on having one for the 1025r and I am so glad I made that decision. Mowing with a dedicated professional level zero turn is the hot ticket for speed, quality and results. Plus, there is no RIO on the Commercial Zero Turn mowers, just a seat switch, which is a good idea. The last thing anyone should want is their machine still running if they somehow fell off the seat.

It's nice to be able to leave the FEL and the 3ph carry all on the machine the entire time for most uses and by not using the 1 series for lawn mowing, it allows the tractor to be ready for FEL and other work.

I think the RIO is a poor idea, however, I do think the seat switch and the brake pedal switches are something I wouldn't bypass on my machine. The first month I got on and off my tractor, I either kept leaving the transfer case in gear or I would bump the transfer case handle with my hip, etc. getting in and out of the cab. Now that I am used to it, its no different that setting the brake on my 455 for every time I disembarked the seat. No big deal when you get in the habit.

Glad the RIO doesn't work with the rear 3ph Frontier Mower. For the most part, I only have to deal with setting the brake and leaving the transfer case in Neutral when exiting the seat and cab and everything works out fine..............
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Exactly what scenario while mowing causes the engine to shut down as long as you're siting normally in the seat?
....If I release the rocker switch while pressure is still on the reverse peddle, mine just disengages the pto and the engine is still running. The only time my engine shuts down is when my butt gets light on the seat....
....I have a 2018 1025r. Has something changed on either the older or newer models?
On my 19 1023e if the PTO is engaged and you just the R pedal the engine shuts off.

Conversely, I just have to press the RIO switch just before the reverse pedal, hold it til it's pressed down a little, and as long as the R pedal remains pressed, the PTO (and engine) keeps running.
(meaning.. I don't have to hold the rocker the whole time to keep the PTO engaged and engine running.)

...I do think that getting off the tractor without sitting the parking brake is a poor idea, just as I don't think you should leave the transfer case in gear and be able to get off the tractor. Just imagine if you bypassed those safety features, you could crawl on and off the tractor with the transfer case in either low or high with the engine running....
This ^^^ is why I don't understand why they don't kill the engine if the brake isn't set... if the brake is set, tractor shouldn't move, in gear or not.
I'd rather have both (not in neutral AND parking brake set) be required... so I am reminded to set the parking brake.
I guess I am saying, the engine should also turn off if the brake isn't set.(Odd for me to say "add another safety switch item"... but I like them when properly thought out)

That said... if i had to pick either the brake set, OR having neutral selected, being the condition for the tractor to remain running when I leave the seat, I'd pick having the brake set every day.

What I am surprised about, with this machine, is that the F and R pedals can be moved with the brake set.
I feel if the brake pedal is depressed all the way to the parking position, the pedals should return to not pressed.
(My 318 did not allow this action.. brake pressed, hydro direction lever was forced to neutral).

So... if the brake is not properly adjusted or maintained, the tractor could be made to move with it set by pressing a pedal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
@BWV
On my 2019 1025R, only the PTO shuts down when engaging reverse, the engine keeps running. ...that is, before I did the zip-tie RIO defeat.
The only time my engine quits is if I intentionally, or unintentionally, get up off the seat while the tractor is in gear.

Maybe yours has an additional engine shut-off safety feature implemented just for the New York marketplace. ;-)

j/k
 
  • Like
Reactions: jimmylh

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Is it like that with the Mid PTO on too? (or just the rear?)
On my 2019 1025R, only the PTO shuts down when engaging reverse, the engine keeps running.

Hmmm... wonder if its something not right.
My engine shuts off instantly if I have the PTO engaged, with the PTO lever in the Mid PTO (Mower deck) position, and touch the reverse pedal.
I have not tried this with the rear PTO before I bypassed the switch..so dont know if that acts differently.

Edit... I looked in the manual. I read this as "the engine is supposed to stop if the PTO is on and reverse is pressed".

From the manual
Test 1
  1. Park the machine safely.
  2. Start the engine.
  3. Set the engine speed to 1600 rpm or less.
  4. Set the PTO selector lever (A) to mid/rear PTO (B) or rear PTO (C).
  5. To start the attachment, press the PTO/RIO switch (D).
  6. Look behind and down before backing up to be sure that there are no bystanders and there is a clear path.
  7. Begin reverse travel by depressing the reverse travel pedal.
    Result: Attachment and engine stops operation. If attachment or engine continues to operate while machine travels in reverse, do not continue operation.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,157 Posts
@BWV
On my 2019 1025R, only the PTO shuts down when engaging reverse, the engine keeps running. ...that is, before I did the zip-tie RIO defeat.
The only time my engine quits is if I intentionally, or unintentionally, get up off the seat while the tractor is in gear.

Maybe yours has an additional engine shut-off safety feature implemented just for the New York marketplace. ;-)

j/k
I think you should check yours again. If you have the mid PTO engaged and you depress the reverse propel pedal, the engine will shut off if you do not depress the RIO first.

It does not just disengage the mid PTO.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,157 Posts
My operator's manual "Operate RIO" page:


No mention of engine shutting off.
The OP manual doesn't indicate that the engine shuts off if you do not follow the procedure, it just gives you the procedure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
770 Posts
Mine without a doubt shuts the engine down, a 2018 2025r.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
I think you should check yours again. If you have the mid PTO engaged and you depress the reverse propel pedal, the engine will shut off if you do not depress the RIO first.

It does not just disengage the mid PTO.
.
.
Well, I probably won't take the time to do that, as I would have to undo the zip-tie from the reverse switch (then redo it afterward).

But I did try it about a week before I did the RIO defeat, and if remember right, the mid-mount mower shut down, and the tractor went backwards until I let off the pedal. ...perhaps I am mistaken, but I sure don't remember having to restart the tractor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,766 Posts
I did the zip tie technique over the summer. Took about 20 minutes. Was tired of having to hit the switch to backup while mowing the tight spots. This was also in my favor when using the mmm to blow leaves this past autumn. Because of the clockwise rotation direction, I was able to control and blow leaves farther in reverse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
904 Posts
I think you should check yours again. If you have the mid PTO engaged and you depress the reverse propel pedal, the engine will shut off if you do not depress the RIO first.

It does not just disengage the mid PTO.
Ok, so I just went out and checked mine. At idle with the mid pto engaged and mower running, I backed up without pressing the rio and the engine did indeed shutdown. I just never remember that happening while really mowing. I think that during those times the engine had enough momentum that it just skipped a beat and restarted itself while the pto was disengaging and my foot was off the pedals. I can say for certain, that the rio has no affect on the rear only pto selection. When using my tiller it never made any difference which direction the tractor was going.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
975 Posts
I used the jumper on the MBR switch on my 2018 1023E with the rocker PTO switch. Works great. You just have to get used to the display only showing the rear PTO speed. I just have to remember to remove it before any dealer servicing. Before, IF I let my foot off the reverse pedal soon enough the engine would sometimes keep running if I tried to back up without first holding the PTO/RIO switch, otherwise it would quit. The PTO disengages immediately, but if the engine is still turning it would start firing again when I let off the pedal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: petelarsen

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
We share the same manual... The words I shared are under section 200 "Maintenance Intervals", the section labelled:
Test the Safety Interlock System Before Startup
.
.
OK, the way I read that, it says to put the PTO selection lever to the Mid/Rear or Rear position.

There is no mention of what should occur if the lever is in the Mid only position. Maybe that is the difference? ...dunno.

726247
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,778 Posts
The MBR switch only closes when the PTO selection lever is in Rear Only. When the lever is in Both or Mid Only, the switch is open.

When the switch is open, the Instrument Control Cluster (ICC) requires the activation of the RIO switch in order to receive a signal, along with a signal from the seat switch, otherwise it shuts down the PTO and engine when hitting the reverse pedal. If I'm fast enough, I can let off the reverse pedal and the engine will stumble but keep running. The PTO will stop though.

With the PTO in Rear Only, the MBR switch is closed, and the ICC gets a signal from the MBR switch and disregards an input from the RIO switch. It now is looking at the inputs from the neutral safety switch and the brake pedal switch.

Does that help?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
The MBR switch only closes when the PTO selection lever is in Rear Only. When the lever is in Both or Mid Only, the switch is open.

When the switch is open, the Instrument Control Cluster (ICC) requires the activation of the RIO switch in order to receive a signal, along with a signal from the seat switch, otherwise it shuts down the PTO and engine when hitting the reverse pedal. If I'm fast enough, I can let off the reverse pedal and the engine will stumble but keep running. The PTO will stop though.

With the PTO in Rear Only, the MBR switch is closed, and the ICC gets a signal from the MBR switch and disregards an input from the RIO switch. It now is looking at the inputs from the neutral safety switch and the brake pedal switch.

Does that help?


In the manual for the RIO Safety Test, it states that when the lever is in the combination position for Rear/Mid PTO, or Rear Only PTO position, the PTO & engine should quit when the reverse pedal is pushed. The test does not mention having the lever in the Mid only PTO position.

So much conflicting info. Now, I guess I am going to have to cut my zip-tie, try it out again, and then redo the zip-tie.

...and what in the heck is an MBR switch? Ever since the changeover to this new forum provider, all of the hover over the acronym explanations have disappeared. :-/
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,778 Posts
In the manual for the RIO Safety Test, it states that when the lever is in the combination position for Rear/Mid PTO, or Rear Only PTO position, the PTO & engine should quit. The test does not mention having the lever in the Mid only PTO position.

So much conflicting info. Now, I guess I am going to have to cut my zip-tie, try it out again, and then redo the zip-tie.
The manual has a typo and it is wrong. It should say Rear/Mid PTO or Mid Only PTO. When using the Rear Only, you can back up without using the RIO as long as the seat switch is closed. Do it all the time with the brush hog. Where the RIO comes into play is with the Mid PTO, whether it be by itself or in combination with the Rear. That's why the MBR switch is open any time the Mid PTO is in use. It only closes upon Rear Only selection.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DanW and jimmylh

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Which doesn't make sense to me either...
IF (big if...) I'm worried about one implement more than I would be over the other...
I'd worry way more about backing up with a running bush hog, tiller, wood chipper, stump grinder, rear mount mower, etc... than I ever would about backing up with a mid mount mower deck...
 
  • Like
Reactions: KTManiac

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,778 Posts
I'd worry way more about backing up with a running bush hog, tiller, wood chipper, stump grinder, rear mount mower, etc... than I ever would about backing up with a mid mount mower deck...
Agreed.
Maybe JD is targeting 'Joe Suburbia' who isn't going to have those kind of implements for his postage-stamp size yard, and that JD just carried the RIO over from the smaller machines into the 1 series (and 2 series?). So Joe Suburbia doesn't totally mame little Susie when he backs over her? JD playing the percentages of Average Joe Homeowner?
 
21 - 40 of 47 Posts
Top