Green Tractor Talk banner
1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just picked up a lightly used 1025R a few days ago. Overall, love the tractor, but there are a few things that bug me, one trivial, others more of an issue. My previous tractor was a Kubota L3240-sold it when I moved from Idaho (20 acre parcel, lots of snow removal) to Tennessee.

My first minor gripe is brake pedal location. Every other tractor I've operated have had 2 brake pedals, on the right side, rather than a single on the left. Not a big deal, just need to get used to it. Bigger issue for me is the need to shift into neutral to start-especially if on a hill. I find it easy to start the tractor, let off the brake while hitting the hydro pedal...and going for a ride since it's free wheeling (forgot to put in gear). Especially an issue when the brake isn't where I expect. No other tractor I've owned has had this. I'm assuming it's not too hard to override this "safety" feature, gotta research it, but if anyone has a link it would be appreciated.

Other question is the "reverse pto shutoff". That's just flippin' annoying, and another item that increases danger and costs control IMHO, especially when mowing on a slope with trees and other obstructions that require frequent backing up. I saw a video about zip-tying the switch, going to do so. Just curious-what exactly is the reasoning for this "function"? Frankly seems pretty stupid to me, I can't see any way it makes things safer.

The other annoyance is the deadman's switch on the seat, but every tractor has had those for decades. Another annoyance-I often want to stand up momentarily when operating a FEL to see bucket or fork position. But that one I can live with.

All minor gripes and I assume readily addressed. Love the quick detach loader and deck, both are really nice. And I've been pretty impressed how well it pulls a box grade uphill on my driveway, considering the small size/weight of the machine. I do want to get the tires filled for more stability on hills.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,555 Posts
The hydro pedals are on the right, not sure how you would put a brake pedal there too. I think every foot controlled hydro tractor is set up like that.
Neutral safety start is there for the same reason it’s on your car.
RIO switch for the PTO is there for safety reasons so you don’t mow over your dog or kids when backing up without looking. It can be a nuisance.
Any modern tractor, even lawnmowers, have these safety features. Even my 75 year old Ford tractor has a neutral safety switch.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,600 Posts
It's not a problem to put your foot on the brake, shift to neutral, and then put the transmission back in gear. You should also be using the brake when parked. To me when you disable a safety feature you'll eventually cut your own throat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The hydro pedals are on the right, not sure how you would put a brake pedal there too. I think every foot controlled hydro tractor is set up like that.
Neutral safety start is there for the same reason it’s on your car.
RIO switch for the PTO is there for safety reasons so you don’t mow over your dog or kids when backing up without looking. It can be a nuisance.
Any modern tractor, even lawnmowers, have these safety features. Even my 75 year old Ford tractor has a neutral safety switch.
My L3240 had the brake pedals and hydro pedal on the right. I also like the center-pivot hydro-pedal better than the dual pedals, more intuitive. But I'll get used to it. It did NOT require that you shift the range selector into neutral to start. Concerning the pedal positions, it was a larger tractor, on the 1025 there likely wouldn't have been room.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,153 Posts
There's only one brake pedal because there's only one brake in the transmission. It doesn't have a split brake on each side of the axle like a larger tractor.

Yes the neutral switch can be bypassed very easily. I'm sure many people do it and the likelihood of an "incident" is pretty low as long as you don't also have a foot on one of the hydro pedals. So not trying to be the safety police here. But I am suggesting against it because of your reason. You're already having an issue remembering what's what. I recommend against bypassing a safety feature to bypass learning how to properly and safely use a new machine. Once you are confident and comfortable operating the new machine with experience, then by all means make whatever personal risk vs reward decision is best for you on that.

The reverse bypass for mowing is also an easy and we'll documented bypass. It can be found on here and YouTube. I've done it to mine as have hundreds or thousands of people. All I'm going to say is consider your environment before deciding to do it. There are no kids in my yard or any yard near me. My dog hates the tractor and stays away. So my personal risk is basically nothing. Therefore I now enjoy mowing in reverse around obstacles all the time.

I strongly recommend against bypassing the seat safety switch. It's the only thing that will stop the motor if you fall off or tip over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
There's only one brake pedal because there's only one brake in the transmission. It doesn't have a split brake on each side of the axle like a larger tractor.

Yes the neutral switch can be bypassed very easily. I'm sure many people do it and the likelihood of an "incident" is pretty low as long as you don't also have a foot on one of the hydro pedals. So not trying to be the safety police here. But I am suggesting against it because of your reason. You're already having an issue remembering what's what. I recommend against bypassing a safety feature to bypass learning how to properly and safely use a new machine. Once you are confident and comfortable operating the new machine with experience, then by all means make whatever personal risk vs reward decision is best for you on that.

The reverse bypass for mowing is also an easy and we'll documented bypass. It can be found on here and YouTube. I've done it to mine as have hundreds or thousands of people. All I'm going to say is consider your environment before deciding to do it. There are no kids in my yard or any yard near me. My dog hates the tractor and stays away. So my personal risk is basically nothing. Therefore I now enjoy mowing in reverse around obstacles all the time.

I strongly recommend against bypassing the seat safety switch. It's the only thing that will stop the motor if you fall off or tip over.
Yeah, I suspect you're right. I'll do the RIO/PTO switch disable and see how things work out. It's annoying when going into reverse, having the tractor stall because of this silly thing, flipping it into neutral to start, then back into gear. If the RIO engine kill goes away I probably won't have an issue with the other.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,153 Posts
I think I was 12 years old when I first bypassed a mower reverse safety on my dad's lawn tractor. I was sick of it then and I still am 27 years later. So you'll never see me go safety police on that one as long as you've considered the risks.

I'm sure I didn't consider those risks when I was 12. And honestly I don't think I really thought of it at all until seeing how much my friends kids love their dad's lawn tractor and are magnetically attracted to it at all times.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,325 Posts
I'm a retired product safety manager. People designing products frequently object to the added cost and complexity of safety interlocks. Gruesome accidents are oftentimes necessary to change that thinking. The accidents can be difficult to anticipate. Folks are pretty creative. I'm probably one of the few who hasn't disabled my RIO. I pull up on the knob when reversing pretty automatically. That's a problem, too. I try to remind myself that the RIO interlock is to remind me to be extra careful in backing up with the MMM running. In this case, I can easily foresee the gruesome accident. People and animals see the tractor pass by and think it's now safe to pass. At the same time, the tractor operator thinks that they just drove through this space, so it must be safe to back up through it. Be safe.

Keane
 

·
Premium Member
1025r with Mauser cab.
Joined
·
14,674 Posts
The part with the RIO which I find ludicrous is you can have whirling augers on the 4.5' wide snowblower extended out in front of the machine and you can back up all day long with the RIO OVERRIDE Plug which comes in the snow blower mounting hardware kit with the front Quick Tach Hitch and the front PTO drive shaft kit. John Deere provides the necessary plug to bypass the RIO when using the front mounted snow blower or rotary broom, which is using the very same PTO connection point the MMM normallly uses, to extend the PTO to the front of the tractor.

So while backing up with a mower UNDER you requires the lifting of the RIO switch, you can reverse and leave the front snow blower whirling away extended out in front of the machine, compliments of Deere. At least the MMM will cut grass when backed over the lawn, however, the front mounted snow blower is incapable of blowing snow when backing as the snow can only front load into the blower.

You can also back up with the rear mounted 3ph Frontier 2048 mower extended 6 feet behind the tractor and NOT have to use the RIO.

Personally, I would disable the RIO but I would NOT disable the Neutral switch or the seat switch, especially when the operator is already experiencing some "operational confusion" with the machines pedals and their locations. The OP is also one of the very few who I have ever heard say they prefer the dreaded Kubota "Treadle Pedal" over the independent pedals used by Deere. For many of us, the treadle pedal was THE disqualifying feature of the Kubota.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,465 Posts
The RIO
Other question is the "reverse pto shutoff". That's just flippin' annoying, and another item that increases danger and costs control IMHO, especially when mowing on a slope with trees and other obstructions that require frequent backing up. I saw a video about zip-tying the switch, going to do so. Just curious-what exactly is the reasoning for this "function"? Frankly seems pretty stupid to me, I can't see any way it makes things safer.
That reverse PTO crap is there solely to protect the manufacturer from lawsuits from people who back over their dog/kid/chia pet because they hit the wrong pedal or whatever. With the RIO system in place, the manufacturers figure that they are less likely to be sued for selling "an unssfe product that can inadvertently mow in reverse" or whatever because it cannot mow in reverse until and unless the operator deliberately chooses to do so by activating the button before backing up. This feature is on every modern riding mower because, well let's be honest here, we've all seen idiots operating a riding mower.

What really makes no sense is that this feature made it over to real tractors like ours. It's laughable to try and protect against an operator backing up inadvertently with a mid-mount mower .... yet, one could literally drive in reverse day without hassle when using a rear mower or bush hog. Edit: Sulley beat me to it :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,091 Posts
Why don't Zero Turn Mowers have RIO ?!?!?

On my property it's more dangerous to have it enabled. I have long steep hills and have done some sliding on my tractor. If the interlock was triggered, I would loose power steering and the engine resistance in the transmission and be on my way down a hill no steering with only a parking brake to slow down with. (n)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,356 Posts
I agree with dixie that safety are there to protect the manufactures from idiots that should not be on anything mechanical in the first place! I've been operating tractor for 60 years now, NEVER backed over anything I didn't want to! It's VERY easy, simply turn you head and look behind before you back up!

Maybe if Ralph Nadar was still active, he could get them mandatory on ALL vehicles! Bob
 

·
Premium Member
Early 2017 Vintage 1025R TLB (260/H120)
Joined
·
3,689 Posts
Why don't Zero Turn Mowers have RIO ?!?!?
I'd guess it has to do with the pedals being easily confused/incorrectly operated, whereas a ZT is a deliberate rear motion to reverse that can't be unintentionally hit.

I know I've unintentionally hit the reverse pedal on my 1R when intending to go forward, likely because I was sitting awkwardly or focused on lighting my cigar or... While I've never (that I recall) hit the reverse pedal while mowing unintentionally, I still get it. I find it annoying when in the middle of mowing I forget to hit it and it almost shuts down, or worse when I'm mowing beneath a tree limb that I basically drive up to my face (intentionally) with a bit of limbo then struggle to reach the switch to reverse. One of these days it'll get disabled, but it's not that much of a nuisance, yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jimmy Walker

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,465 Posts
I find it annoying when in the middle of mowing I forget to hit it and it almost shuts down
Yeah so I was fixin to get all fancy with an electronic bypass module that plugs into the harness connector intended for a snowblower, but got sidetracked and in the meantime I just zip tied the reverse pedal sensor.

My problem was I'd forget to hit the RIO switch (because I was focused on looking behind me, imagine that!) and the engine would start to die. My instant reaction was to take my foot off the reverse pedal which would then allow the engine to continue running but kicked the PTO off while it was still turning at a relatively high speed. That can't be good for the PTO brake and I was worried about premature wear and even possible damage to it. The PTO is only supposed to be disengaged (and engaged) at idle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,714 Posts
I have disabled my RIO since I don't consider myself an idiot. However, I have neither any children nor dogs. I do find myself "zoning out" while mowing on a hot day with the Bose active sound suppression headphones on and not looking back over my shoulder when I back up. Even more so now that arthritis has made its way into my neck. I think that if I a had a child or two running around the place, or pet dogs, I would seriously consider reconnecting the RIO, installing a backup camera, or both.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
556 Posts
My L3240 had the brake pedals and hydro pedal on the right. I also like the center-pivot hydro-pedal better than the dual pedals, more intuitive. But I'll get used to it. It did NOT require that you shift the range selector into neutral to start. Concerning the pedal positions, it was a larger tractor, on the 1025 there likely wouldn't have been room.
Hi All
Among the reasons I didn't buy a Kabota (and many other JD owners) was the hydro static rocker pedal and the ridiculous brake pedal above the hydro static pedal and nothing on the left side.
Shifting to neutral has been around since the 1946 (on the Ferguson TE 20) and has saved many lives. I have no problem, foot on brake shift to neutral, start, shift to range foot off brake, go, that is one safety feature I would not remove. I drove Ferguson's for many years I learn't to drive on a Ferguson 35 then a MF135, when I was young it becomes second nature to slip the range selector into neutral to start the tractor, and its much easier on a 1025R.
I often start my tractor while standing at the side particularly while installing and removing the BH and MMM. This would be particularly dangerous without the shift to neutral interlock.
Regards John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
595 Posts
My X754 has the brake on the right above the Hydro pedals. Sometimes if I go from the 2025R to the lawnmower I look a little goofy stabbing the air with my left foot to stop. It does not have a neutral but the brake pedal has to be pressed to start.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wildbranch2007

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
Hi All
Among the reasons I didn't buy a Kabota (and many other JD owners) was the hydro static rocker pedal and the ridiculous brake pedal above the hydro static pedal and nothing on the left side.
Shifting to neutral has been around since the 1946 (on the Ferguson TE 20) and has saved many lives. I have no problem, foot on brake shift to neutral, start, shift to range foot off brake, go, that is one safety feature I would not remove. I drove Ferguson's for many years I learn't to drive on a Ferguson 35 then a MF135, when I was young it becomes second nature to slip the range selector into neutral to start the tractor, and its much easier on a 1025R.
I often start my tractor while standing at the side particularly while installing and removing the BH and MMM. This would be particularly dangerous without the shift to neutral interlock.
Regards John
Neutral start on a gear tractor has been around for a long time but these are hydrostatic and is completely different. There are thousands of hydrostatic lawn and garden, riding lawn mowers that don’t even have a range selector to move to neutral. Have to have foot on brake but that’s it. Older ones not even that. If Deere just had a range selector that went to either high or low but no neutral, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all. Don’t compare gear drive to these.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
556 Posts
Neutral start on a gear tractor has been around for a long time but these are hydrostatic and is completely different. There are thousands of hydrostatic lawn and garden, riding lawn mowers that don’t even have a range selector to move to neutral. Have to have foot on brake but that’s it. Older ones not even that. If Deere just had a range selector that went to either high or low but no neutral, we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all. Don’t compare gear drive to these.
Kabota's had a problem with their Hydro static drive where they moved forwards or backwards with no input, it was a known problem, I have heard of similar problems on JD's. Is it so hard to push the range selector into neutral like you do in your automatic vehicle. The RIO is a PITA if it makes the tractor so much safer why isn't it fitted to ZERO turns?
Regards John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
805 Posts
RIO isn't fitted to Z's because the way you turn is by reversing half the machine.

I do agree it's silly on anything that's considered a real tractor. FWIW, anybody / thing hit by my 1025r with a mower deck is going to suffer significant injury from backhoe / imatch / drawbar / wheels before they're even intoduced to spinning blades. If you're going to allow RIO bypass for some tools, you might as well just do it for others.
I'm pretty sure that the Gen2 203xr machines have an on-screen menu that'll let you disable RIO.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top