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To winterize my tractor I had to get my oil filter from a local store since my dealer is about 60 miles away. What I got is a Kohler oil filter which seem to be identical to the one I get from John Deer (AM125424) but what bothers me is the package says “For Command, Aegis, Courage and Triad OHC Engines” but it does not say “Brigs & Stratton” like my engine is.

What worries me if the new filter creates more/less backpressure in the system?

Do you have any experience with the above?
 

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Nicolas, I wish I could give you an answer, but I can't! I will, however tell/explain what I know about filters and lube systems.

An oil pump is typically a gear type pump that picks up oil from the crankcase, pumps it through the filter, and then to the rest of the lubrication system.

There are 2 types of oil filters, bypass and non-bypass. Bypass meaning if the filter is totally clogged, the oil bypasses the filter. Non-bypass means if your filter is totally clogged, your engine gets no oil. Engine manufacturers have worked around this by installing a relief valve built into the block before the filter, so if pressure builds up (due to a clogged filter), the valve opens and the system gets oil, dirty, but oil.

The other data particular to a filter is micron rating. This rating determines the largest particle/dirt that can pass through the filter. A micron is small, very, very small. 1 micron equals 0.000039 inch. To my knowledge...and I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong...auto motive engines use a 20 micron filter, so the largest particle that can pass through is .00078!

I checked JD parts for info on the filter (bypass, non bypass, micron rating) and nothing was given, so they were no help! Soo, as far as bypass/non bypass, regular filter changes will take care of that...the filter will changed before it clogs. As far as micron rating, I'd like to see 40 or less.

OK, all of this said, all I hopefully did was inform you about filters! Bob
 

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To winterize my tractor I had to get my oil filter from a local store since my dealer is about 60 miles away. What I got is a Kohler oil filter which seem to be identical to the one I get from John Deer (AM125424) but what bothers me is the package says “For Command, Aegis, Courage and Triad OHC Engines” but it does not say “Brigs & Stratton” like my engine is.

What worries me if the new filter creates more/less backpressure in the system?

Do you have any experience with the above?
How do you know that what you got is "identical" to the JD filter? It is next to impossible to say the filter you picked up is identical if your just making a visual comparison. Filters vary immensely between brands. The filter medium or paper quality-the particle or micron particle size it can trap-the number of pleats or folds in the paper, which makes up a major part of the filtering ability. Does it have a center tube within the pack. Does the filter paper resist or stop oil channeling. Does it have a good spring & by-pass system.

Ok- I have not answered your question on back pressure. But all of the above has affects on your oil system & its ability to filter oil efficiently. My guess is that you do have some back pressure with a filter but it is probably really minimal. A quality oil filter has a relief system in it. A high back pressure inside the filter would causer the filter's by-pass system to open up & flow around the filter so you do not lose oil circulation into the engine. Having said that, I don't see the concern about back pressure. What is your concern over it.

So who makes that Kohler filter? Could it be sourced from Fram-Wix-Purolator or another known manufacturer or just some obscure off shore maker. One hint about quality is the thickness & rolled seam & the mounting plate & gasket of the filter. Visually they will give you a hint on quality. The thickness of the filter body, the thickness of the bottom plate & the gasket. But beyond that, it's hard to say unless you have the filters specs & the instruments to inspect it.

I know I'm overboard here, but I worked for Purolator Oil filter when they were based in Rahway, NJ & Fayetteville, NC. I'm just passing on my experience with this as I recall it from back in the 70's & 80's.
 

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All commonly available filters automotive type filters (which is whats used on these machines and many others) have a bypass or pressure relief valve (sometimes these terms are used interchangeably), but unfiltered oil is better than no oil, and the construction and material used for said bypass is the subject of much scrutiny on oil filter related discussions, especially it seems on motorcycle forums for some reason more than others, though thats not the issue here.
The question about creating back pressure is an interesting one, in that of course they create backpressure, they restrict flow slightly, although the oil being under pressure helps mitigate this. More back pressure than the rest of the system? Not likely. Thats how you have oil pressure in the first place, restriction in flow.
The reason the filter media area is so large compared to the filter itself is to mitigate any increase in flow resistance, even when dirty.
This should be the concerning factor for any replacement filter not labeled OEM.
Deere doesnt make them, someone else does, to their spec, which is likely a few other specs too, which is why filters interchange between brands.

An easy way to tell what the specs really are is to go find an interchange site that lists pressure, filter media area, flow, pressure at relief, etc, or as much as you can get of all of those, and compare.

As to OEM filters for cars vs micron rating, they are kind of all over the board, within limits of course. Very few, if any, OEM filters are junk, and that goes for aftermarket too. Lots of guys dont like the glued on cardboard end caps on quite a few of those filters, but they filter fine. I dont use them because there are better filters for not much more money in my opinion.


For reference, AM125424 crosses to:
Fram PH8170, NAPA 1056, WIX 51056, and a whole lot of others.
 

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I cant talk about filters but on my 420 L&G I developed an oil leak around the front pto shaft. Just a slow drop when I ran the pto. I was told there should be no pressure behind that gasket but what probably caused the drip was I developed oil pressure in the oil pan from bad rings on a cyclinder. I was able to add oil often and the motor lasted 6 more years while I had it, once I gave it to my son it was shot in 15 months,
 

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Oil filters do not create back pressure. Clogged oil filters can create back pressure in a pressurized system (pump) and in the end engine failure.

Certain oil filters have a check valve in them to prevent the oil from draining back into the oil pan/crankcase when the engine is off and oil is not being fed to the engine through the engine oil pump. The check valve in oil filters is pretty common practice now, and it helps to enhance/extend engine life by eliminating "dry" oil conditions when starting. I would use the manufacturers oil filter for this reason alone.
 

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Oil filters do not create back pressure. Clogged oil filters can create back pressure in a pressurized system (pump) and in the end engine failure.

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This is false. Any filter, even brand new, will impose some back pressure on the system. It is simple physics anything in the flow path of a fluid restrics flow of that fluid.

On the other hand. If you manage to run an engine oil filter to the point that it is so dirty the back pressure it creates is a problem for the engine you have other problems.

Engine oil filters are designed to have far more filter area than needed to have minimal flow restriction for the expected service life of the oil and the filter. Any filter that is a cross reference to the JD filter part number is fine for your engine. There is a Wix filter that is regularly stocked at O'Reilly auto parts that fits the Kawisaki engines. I'm currently using one on my engine.
 
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Sounds like you bought an OEM Kohler filter. The relief pressure is virtually identical between Kohler and Briggs filters. No need to worry. I mainly use OEM engine oil filters. Who is one of the leading aftermarket filter suppliers in the world? John Deere. John Deere will put that AM125424 filter on both a Briggs or Kohler. Even the larger Kawasaki.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you all for your time

When I say identical I mean physically the JD oil filter and the Kohler look the same with the OD, height and the hole in the center which screws to the engine are the same on both. The JD filter is marked on the filter case John Deere and the Kohler is marked Kohler plus it says full flow oil filter. I’m sure JD neither Kohler makes their own filters and most likely they both buy their filters from the same place.

I don’t think I will worry about microns, to my opinion all oil filters for the same purpose (cars, trucks or tractors) are made the same. The only difference will be the price between OEM and aftermarket filters.

The filter is installed and after starting the engine all is fine. I stored the tractor in the cabana for the winter and in the spring I will see what I will do. If I don’t feel comfortable then I can zip to the dealer and get a new filter. BTW the JD oil filter cost $12.00 and the Kohler $20.00
 

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This is false. Any filter, even brand new, will impose some back pressure on the system. It is simple physics anything in the flow path of a fluid restrics flow of that fluid.

On the other hand. If you manage to run an engine oil filter to the point that it is so dirty the back pressure it creates is a problem for the engine you have other problems.

Engine oil filters are designed to have far more filter area than needed to have minimal flow restriction for the expected service life of the oil and the filter. Any filter that is a cross reference to the JD filter part number is fine for your engine. There is a Wix filter that is regularly stocked at O'Reilly auto parts that fits the Kawisaki engines. I'm currently using one on my engine.
The original question is ill phrased. Back pressures has historically meant greater than atmospheric pressure in a system that is supposed to be at atmospheric pressure. The term dates from the steam engine days. Exhaust systems for a modern day example.

The supply side of an oil filter is already under pressure, so "back pressure" in its generally accepted definition doesn't make sense. What matters is flow through the system. Oil pressure alone doesn't tell the whole story.

Al
 

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All commonly available filters automotive type filters (which is whats used on these machines and many others) have a bypass or pressure relief valve (sometimes these terms are used interchangeably), but unfiltered oil is better than no oil, and the construction and material used for said bypass is the subject of much scrutiny on oil filter related discussions, especially it seems on motorcycle forums for some reason more than others, though thats not the issue here.
The question about creating back pressure is an interesting one, in that of course they create backpressure, they restrict flow slightly, although the oil being under pressure helps mitigate this. More back pressure than the rest of the system? Not likely. Thats how you have oil pressure in the first place, restriction in flow.
The reason the filter media area is so large compared to the filter itself is to mitigate any increase in flow resistance, even when dirty.
This should be the concerning factor for any replacement filter not labeled OEM.
Deere doesnt make them, someone else does, to their spec, which is likely a few other specs too, which is why filters interchange between brands.

An easy way to tell what the specs really are is to go find an interchange site that lists pressure, filter media area, flow, pressure at relief, etc, or as much as you can get of all of those, and compare.

As to OEM filters for cars vs micron rating, they are kind of all over the board, within limits of course. Very few, if any, OEM filters are junk, and that goes for aftermarket too. Lots of guys dont like the glued on cardboard end caps on quite a few of those filters, but they filter fine. I dont use them because there are better filters for not much more money in my opinion.


For reference, AM125424 crosses to:
Fram PH8170, NAPA 1056, WIX 51056, and a whole lot of others.
Jim, I'd use any filter except Fram saw a video on them. No real spring and filter material is about 1/3 less. Just sayin. Fram litterally is crap. May cut open one of my used JD filters that is well drained. Just cureous how well they are made.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

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Filter monitoring whether it is a gas or a fluid is usually accomplished by linking a common passage between the inlet and outlet of the filter and monitoring with a pressure gage.
The value is commonly expressed as Delta P.
I don't know how to type out the symbol here but it would be Delta followed with a triangle symbol.
This method ignores the atmospheric pressure aspect as that can vary.

So yes, filters create some restriction however minute when they are new or clean.
The majority of oil filter gages I have dealt with that have actual psi values assigned to the scale have usually allowed 13-15 psi Delta P as an indication of change required, however these are on industrial machinery not small engines.
 

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The original question is ill phrased. Back pressures has historically meant greater than atmospheric pressure in a system that is supposed to be at atmospheric pressure. The term dates from the steam engine days. Exhaust systems for a modern day example.

The supply side of an oil filter is already under pressure, so "back pressure" in its generally accepted definition doesn't make sense. What matters is flow through the system. Oil pressure alone doesn't tell the whole story.

Al
This was the meaning of my initial reply. Filters are not designed to provide back pressure, but do introduce a small measure of flow resistance. However, this resistance is slight. I wasn't aware there were so many physics majors reading these posts or perhaps I would have been more precise in my reply.

Your reply above is correct.
 
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Jim, I'd use any filter except Fram saw a video on them. No real spring and filter material is about 1/3 less. Just sayin. Fram litterally is crap. May cut open one of my used JD filters that is well drained. Just cureous how well they are made.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
I AM not defending Fram here but let me say this. When I worked at Purolator our engineering dept. was constantly pulling Fram filters apart along with other brands to do full comparison tests. Back when I was at Purolator, Fram was the number one automotive filter in terms of quality & filtering ability. To classify them as "crap" because someone made a video & said they were crap is a little hard for ME to agree with. However in todays world, maybe they are crap. However they were not back then, when they were being made here in the U.S.A. at their MA plant.

The primary job of the filter is to "FILTER". The disposable oil filter concept was (if I recall correctly) invented in a guys garage in Rahway, NJ. They developed a in line housing & in that housing they stuffed filtering media which was no more than toilet paper. Not a very good media for a whole lot of reasons. As it developed the self contained "Spin On" filter was developed in that little Rahway, NJ garage. The filter made it into the after market auto parts & was branded as "Pure Oil Later". The name implied that the filter would filter the oil after it ran thru the engine & it would clean the oil before it was returned to the sump.

When the original inventor sold the company, it's name was changed by the buyers to "PUROLATOR". Getting back to it, just what did they mean when they called Fram junk? Was it the construction overall, the filtering media, the size? When I was at Purolator we not only took filters apart, we had a extensive "real world" Laboratory where we tested filters on all sorts of engines including drag race engines & NASCAR engines. You may recall that Purolator was a major sponsor in NASCAR back in the day with "Purolator 21". If I recall correctly it was driven by David Pierson (?). Anyway I recall that Purolator had over a million bucks a year tied up in that car. Back then Purolator & Fram were constantly at war with each other & on the track it was Pierson & Richard Petty slugging it out.

I will agree with you that todays Farm filter or Purolator's for that matter are no longer the same quality as they were in the last century. And if you read the Fram package, it really says nothing about its filtering capabilities. Its rather generically stated. The last operation in the construction of a spin on filter is testing for leaks. This is done with air pressure. The slightest drop in air pressure when testing will eject the failed filter off the line. Purolator back in the day gave a full guarantee that any engine that was damaged due to a leaky filter or "blow out" of the filter case would be covered by Purolator for full cost of all repairs needed.

Someone in a post here mentioned "Champion Laboratories" . I just wanted to say that while at Purolator we made spin on filters for aviation engines & they went out the door labeled with the Champion logo. The same logo as was used on Champion spark plugs back then. I don't know if Champion Laboratories as mentioned is a filter manufacturer. If all this talk about automotive filters interests you, you should see what goes into a filter for an aircraft engine. Those filters are bullet proof.

I know I've added nothing of importance here to the subject. But thanks for reading my memories from a time gone by in my life.
 

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I would say you certainly did add something of importance!

Champion Laboratories is a filter manufacturer that makes filters under several different labels. They are not the same as the spark plug company to my knowledge.
Somewhere around here, I used to have a list of the different true filter manufacturers, and whos label they put on their filters.

I believe the reason guys figure the Fram arent as good as others is their cardboard/epoxy internal construction on their lower level filters.
Obviously it works, but there are a few (very few actually) documented cases of the filter coming apart internally and causing engine damage. Those few stories got spread all over the internet, and like things do, got blown out of proportion, which led to everyone figuring they were all going to come apart in their engines.
Ive run them in the past with no issues, but when I can get that or a Purolator for the same cost, Ill take the Purolator. My old favorite was the PureOne filter, but I guess something changed a while back and they had some internal sealing issues with some of them.
Honestly, its like anything else you buy, even if you buy the highest dollar, best rated filter there is, eventually, someone is going to end up with a defective one.
 
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I put fram-made autolite spark plugs in a vehicle once. ran worse than before i started.:nunu:

This might be the video everyone is talking about;

 

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I put fram-made autolite spark plugs in a vehicle once. ran worse than before i started.:nunu:

This might be the video everyone is talking about;

I watched the video. Really? Wix makes a very good filter. Fram makes I believe two or three different quality levels of filters. The guy in the video calls himself a mechanic, but he misrepresents the Wix & Fram product. He does NOT say anything about the product quality levels. In other words, if he is cutting up a Wix filter intended for a truck or other heavy duty application, of course it will have more to it. So if you compare the Wix to the Fram passenger car low end model it will certainly appear as if Fram is as he keeps saying in the video "crap".

And how do we know that the guy in the video is not a Wix operative or someone who has had a bad experience with Fram?
This is the trouble I have with all these people who are self appointed experts. The guy in the video has no clue about the materials in the filter. He uses the incorrect terms & descriptions regarding the filter's parts, etc. Do you really trust a guy as qualified if he must call everything "Crap" in front of his eight year old kid? Mechanic-Really?

I AM not defending Fram or cheering for Wix. But to put it in his own words-his video is a bunch of "crap".
 

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I’ve seen many comparison videos and current frame filters always appear to have the cheapest construction, and the general theme is they will work if changed regularly, but every other major brand is more robust in extreme conditions or if used beyond typical lifetime.

Supposedly identical cross reference numbers in no way mean internally they are comparable. Bypass pressure or no bypass, backflow or not, pore size all vary model to model.

Rather then waste hours doing the research to find actual comparability I just buy OEM. If oem isn’t available I default to wix, followed by any name brand that isn’t orange.
 

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Lol with the bias videos.
Always use Wix. Always will in chebby.
 
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