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I have a wet area that I'm planning on moving the water thru 4" perforated pipe. I'm going to cover pipe with 3/4"-1" stone then put dirt on top , my question is it worth time and money to put felt over pipe before I cover with stone?
 

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In my opinion.... Yes.
 
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I have a wet area that I'm planning on moving the water thru 4" perforated pipe. I'm going to cover pipe with 3/4"-1" stone then put dirt on top , my question is it worth time and money to put felt over pipe before I cover with stone?

Felt over the pipe before the stone? No. That doesn't make much sense.

Dig your trench, put 3" of gravel in the bottom, lay in your pipe, cover with 12" of gravel lay landscape fabric over that and then cover with soil.

If you want some extra protection, use the pipe that come already covered with silt screen or add your own.
Drain-Sleeve 4 in. x 100 ft. Filter Fabric Sock-04100-6 - The Home Depot
 
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I have a wet area that I'm planning on moving the water thru 4" perforated pipe. I'm going to cover pipe with 3/4"-1" stone then put dirt on top , my question is it worth time and money to put felt over pipe before I cover with stone?
What Jim R stated is true but I would use the stone you mentioned and not the gravel, (gravel has fines in it). It will drain better and yes, (order of business) stone, pipe (Holes down), stone, Filter fabric then cover with whatever you want.. If you don't the stone will be full of fines and will plug up.. Use the thickness of stone Jim stated. The pipe fabric is nice but not necessary if you use the stone and cover as stated.. Good luck.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks. The felt over pipe idea was to take place of pipe fabric sleeve. I like what Jeff and Jim suggested better makes more sense, thanks again.
 

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I have tried this,,, twice.

My opinion,,, water takes the path of least resistance.

The perf pipe, gravel, and fabric is a common method to build septic systems.
The goal of the system is to disperse water.

There is nothing encouraging the water INTO the pipe, so a damp area will stay damp.

If you have standing water on the surface, gravity will force the water down, some will find its way into the pipe.

All this work, and money, and the real result is dispersed water.

A better use of $$$ is to grade the surface so water will disperse before it has a chance to enter the soil.

If the water is near a building,,, 99% chance the gutter system needs improvement.

Any pics of the problem area?? :dunno:
 

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Pictures

Hard to tell by pictures because of tall weeds the depth by wide part of drive is about 2'. I bought this property from next to me after house there burned. I dug out some dirt last summer to see if I could improve drainage but didn't have enough tractor for task, tractor problem will be remedied soon. During my digging I hit the original drain pipe which after 30 some years was completely plunged with earth. The original install had no stone around pipe at all. The way the land lays it funnels water to back but then hits the high ground in back.
 

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What Jim R stated is true but I would use the stone you mentioned and not the gravel, (gravel has fines in it)
Fair enough. I was using "gravel" loosely. :good2:

Thanks. The felt over pipe idea was to take place of pipe fabric sleeve. I like what Jeff and Jim suggested better makes more sense, thanks again.

The problem with felt (and "tar paper"), IMO, is that it isn't permeable. Water won't pass through it so it has to find it's way around it. The purpose of the fabric is to prevent dirt/silt/sand from getting into the stone and pipe while letting the water through. If you use felt, the water travels around it and will eventually carry in dirt/silt/sand from the sides of the trench. That will plug everything up and then the whole thing is shot.
 
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Fair enough. I was using "gravel" loosely. :good2:




The problem with felt (and "tar paper"), IMO, is that it isn't permeable. Water won't pass through it so it has to find it's way around it. The purpose of the fabric is to prevent dirt/silt/sand from getting into the stone and pipe while letting the water through. If you use felt, the water travels around it and will eventually carry in dirt/silt/sand from the sides of the trench. That will plug everything up and then the whole thing is shot.
Not roofing felt I was talking about landscape felt that lets water pass through.
 

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I have tried this,,, twice.

My opinion,,, water takes the path of least resistance.

The perf pipe, gravel, and fabric is a common method to build septic systems.
The goal of the system is to disperse water.

There is nothing encouraging the water INTO the pipe, so a damp area will stay damp.
I think there is a misnomer in that analogy. Before any inspector will approve a septic system design they'll want to the results of a perc test. The purpose of that test is to make sure that the ground is capable of absorbing the liquid being pumped into it. If you have standing ground water, you aren't going to pass any perc test. The standing ground water is evidence that the ground isn't permeable to begin with.

My dad had a house on the side of a hill. The entire neighborhood was built on a huge shelf of ledgestone that was at least 5 miles in diameter. But there was a crack in the ledgestone that just happened to be about 10' into his property. Whenever it rained all the rainwater sunk into the ground, got trapped by the ledgestone, found that crack and came out in his back yard. The ground in his yard was always saturated and during even a small storm it would have 2' of standing water.

When they did a survey of the lot it turned out that the house had been built in what was essentially a bowl in the ledgestone that had filled in with about 12' of topsoil (via natural erosion over the centuries). There was nowhere for the water to go. The only time it ever dried at all was if we had a really hot summer after a dry spring.

They finally dug out a curtain drain around the perimeter of his lot and buried 4" drain pipe in gravel down about 6' and ran that into a storm drain at the street. Water flowed from that pipe all year round and his lot finally dried out enough that he could actually grow some grass for a lawn. (His basement also finally dried out. :laugh:)

So the idea of dispersion is nice, but if you've got a bed of clay, solid stone or some other impermeable material, it is never going to disperse on it's own.
 

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Not roofing felt I was talking about landscape felt that lets water pass through.
Gotcha! I've never heard of landscape fabric referred to as felt before. :good2:
 
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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Gotcha! I've never heard of landscape fabric referred to as felt before. :good2:
My fault I should have used correct terminology ��
The ground in my area has a lot of clay and sandstone so I need to move the water towards back of property so we can mow grass, no buildings or foundations close and never will be. I would have to move a lot of earth to get natural drainage. I want to help move the water and spread out . I was also thinking about putting a large stone sump area in back at end of pipe run. Keep ideas coming . This is only a real problem when we get a lot of rain or snow melt in spring. I know when someone builds in our area they have to use a lot property for leech beds for new sceptic systems. They have to bury a lot of pipe for their leech field.
 

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In response to the leach field comment, that is true, the water is introduced into the pipe for disbursement to the SAS and is designed for that use, (certain width, distance apart, length, depth and slope). As Jim stated, a subsurface drain (French drain) is installed like we both spelled out. The fact the water is not draining and staying in the area is exactly why you need to do a subsurface drain.. It will allow the water to enter the pipe from under the surface which is why the water will not drain now because it is saturated, (you can thank clay for most of that) and drain where you slope the pipe to.. I have installed French drains all the way around property to cure water issues in basements, flooded yards etc. They work if installed properly and you create enough pitch.. Takes a lot of water to fill a 4" pipe totally! 1/4" per foot minimum is sufficient. You install this and watch how much water actually drains out of the pipe and you will see in a short period of time your surface dry out.. If I did the work I would guarantee it.. Jeff and good luck with your project..
 

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Ditch, couple inches of clean stone on bottom, perf pipe, backfill with clean stone to a few inches above pipe, fabric over top of stone, topsoil.
As long as you have pitch in pipe and an area lower to drain it off, it's the easiest method to help with slow draining and standing water.
 

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Ditch, couple inches of clean stone on bottom, perf pipe, backfill with clean stone to a few inches above pipe, fabric over top of stone, topsoil.
As long as you have pitch in pipe and an area lower to drain it off, it's the easiest method to help with slow draining and standing water.
That's what we are saying.. basically..
 
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Discussion Starter #18
Getting started

Was able to get going on drainage project this morning.Had to wait on my new to me 3720 to be delivered from dealer (very happy with power and overall performance).I dug up old perforated pipe , it was buried in the soil with no stone at all. Pipe filled with dirt and sediment.
 

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Was able to get going on drainage project this morning.Had to wait on my new to me 3720 to be delivered from dealer (very happy with power and overall performance).I dug up old perforated pipe , it was buried in the soil with no stone at all. Pipe filled with dirt and sediment.
Good reason why it wouldn't drain .
 
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