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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Good afternoon folks! I am getting ready to convert a 1986 316 to dual brake pedals. I have the pedal shaft from a 317 and it looks like it should be fairly simple. Main question I have is whether any tractors with dual pedals had the neutral return hooked to them. I am fixing this old bear up some. Already added a 3-point lift to the back and upgraded the engine to a P220 Onan. I have lots of 3-point implements that I have built for my tractors, so that was needed. Here's the pedals.
DSCN4477.JPG
 
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Kenny, The 317 does not have a neutral return "set-up"...I just move Fwd/Rev lever to neutral! My 322 does however. Additional arms are attached to each pedal and in turn operate linkage to move hydro into neutral. That said, I've only used my brakes for steering and simply use the hydro lever for stopping.

The neutral system with the brake pedals is FAR MORE than a simple spring...levers, links, arms, and plates are involved! It can be done, but why??? Bob
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Kenny, The 317 does not have a neutral return "set-up"...I just move Fwd/Rev lever to neutral! My 322 does however. Additional arms are attached to each pedal and in turn operate linkage to move hydro into neutral. That said, I've only used my brakes for steering and simply use the hydro lever for stopping.

The neutral system with the brake pedals is FAR MORE than a simple spring...levers, links, arms, and plates are involved! It can be done, but why??? Bob
Thank you! I thought the 317 did not have it. Didn't really want to add in as I want to use the brakes for traction help. The tractor has (now) got a good neutral with the lever and I seldom use the brakes to stop anyway. I'm just used to tractors with the Peerless 2500 that is limited slip so traction is not that much of a problem. I'll post more of this as I get into it in case someone else wants to try it.
 

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I haven’t heard of anyone putting limited slip in a 316.

Usually people get a 420/430 rear end and then they have 2 speeds, and a manual locker.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
I haven’t heard of anyone putting limited slip in a 316.

Usually people get a 420/430 rear end and then they have 2 speeds, and a manual locker.
None of those down here! Have to make do with what's available!
Weather is decent out there so I started on the brakes today. Had to fix a broken window on the tractor port first from the wind yesterday! Got the fender pan off!
DSCN4478.JPG

There is no brake lock on the shaft, it's incorporated into the neutral return. Here's the LH end of the shaft.
DSCN4479.JPG

And the RH side with the brake rod taken off.
DSCN4480.JPG

The two pedal assemblies. You can see the differences here.
DSCN4481.JPG DSCN4482.JPG

Saw that the RH pedal needed the brake rod attachment reworked, wasn't going to work so I cut it off and made up a new one.
DSCN4483.JPG

Had to make a new bushing to hold things in the right position side to side. Then drilled a new hole 90° to the original in the LH end of the rod. Got that all put back together.
DSCN4484.JPG DSCN4485.JPG

Trying to decide if I want to make a stop for bringing the pedals back up or not, so I stopped for the day! If I put return springs on, I'll need a way to 'stop' the pedals from going too far.
Really a simple way to add turning brakes to one of these! I will NOT have a brake lock or neutral return on this tractor.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
I got to thinking about the parking brake mechanism along with stops to keep the pedals from returning too far. Figured it all out. My return springs are not strong enough, I'll address those later.
DSCN4486.JPG DSCN4487.JPG DSCN4490.JPG DSCN4491.JPG

I put it all back together and it works well. Need to fine tune the brake adjustments when I redo the springs.
 
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Kenny,

To improve your return spring capability why don't you simply go to the setup used on the 318 models. You can go to the JD Parts website and see a parts breakdown for this. The 318's essentially used two stronger springs that were located at the rear of the brake actuation rods that were used on either side of the tractor. I've seen writeups on the brake conversions you're doing before and they mentioned having to lengthen the piece of squarestock that is used for the pedal stops. They also mentioned having to relocate that squarestock but I think that had to do with maintaining the stock neutral return linkage....................Gary
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Kenny,

To improve your return spring capability why don't you simply go to the setup used on the 318 models. You can go to the JD Parts website and see a parts breakdown for this. The 318's essentially used two stronger springs that were located at the rear of the brake actuation rods that were used on either side of the tractor. I've seen writeups on the brake conversions you're doing before and they mentioned having to lengthen the piece of squarestock that is used for the pedal stops. They also mentioned having to relocate that squarestock but I think that had to do with maintaining the stock neutral return linkage....................Gary
I saw how they attached the spring to the rods on a 318 but not where they attached to the tractor. So much for JD parts.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Here's what JD parts on the 318 brakes. Does not show where the spring attaches to the tractor!
ScreenShot222.jpg
 

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Kenny,

I know the front of the spring hooks through the washer that is welded onto each brake rod. It can be seen on the parts breakdown. And I believe the rear of the spring attaches to the brake actuator cam shaft/arm (or whatever it's called) which is part number 14 on the parts breakdown drawing. I will be down in my barn working tomorrow and will look at my 318 and get back with you in confirmation of that. Or if it is hooked to something else I will inform you of that..................Gary
 

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Here is an illustration from the Technical Manual. Note that there were two spring configurations used depending on model year:


318 brake spring.JPG

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Here is an illustration from the Technical Manual. Note that there were two spring configurations used depending on model year:


View attachment 674256

Chuck
Thank you! That is what I was looking for. The 316 uses the same spring so I just need to get another. When the weather permits, I'll fix it up right.

Edit: I found the pics in the TM. Now to wait for better weather to fix it correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have the spring ordered and will pick it up from the local dealer when it comes in. Now, if anyone out there with a late model 318 or 420 can get the measurement from the end of the threads to the washer, that will help me a lot. See attached pic.
318 brake spring 2.JPG

Thanks for all the help folks!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Think I got the measurement figured out. I put the pic of the rod in my cad program and made some measurements.
318 Brake Spring Length.jpg

Looks like the washer is mounted about 60% of the thread length forward of the thread ends.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have 2 springs now. Hoping tomorrow to get them on. First, I am going to adjust the brakes in the drum till they are just dragging a bit. Then back that off equally about 10 notches. Then I will see about getting the dimension for that spring the SM shows when the brakes are locked. Right now my rods seem to be adjusted wrong as I have a bunch of threads at the rear, unlike the pics above. I am not going to use a washer as the pic shows for the return springs, I made up a couple pieces of metal with 3 holes spaced about 1/2" apart. Since I am guessing where they will be mounted, I'll put the center hole there and have adjustment for the spring if needed. I'll have pics.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Good afternoon Folks! I got out this morning and pulled the fender pan and back tires. Went to adjusting the brakes. Found that the SM call out of 1.650" for compressed spring on the brake rod was not going to work. Couldn't push hard enough to lock the brakes. So I settled with 1.875". Got the return spring connections welded in and all is good. I think a fitting name for this one is Ol' Crusty. Also got some 55 lb. wheel weights installed.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Pics came out of order for some reason, but there it is!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Since the brakes are working well, I need to put the electric PTO back on the engine. It was on the B43, had a bad bearing. Time to get it on the P220 so I can put the deck on it later this Spring. I am also going to look into the feasibility of putting a 3 spool hyd. valve off a 140 in there. Think the steering box may be a challenge though. Have to see. I have an extra set of handles from the 317 parts I have, so I can make a set of 3 handles easily.
 
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I have a complete valve and lever setup from a 420 if you’re interested. It might be a couple weeks until I can open my shed though.
 
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I was looking at your pics. The 1st one of the bracket, rod and spring is exactly what I picked up out of the snow and gravel the other day.:banghead: I'm not sure which tractor it's off of. Hopefully it's the old 317 parts frame.:banghead:
 
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