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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

Just hoping to get some experienced perspective on my towing situation before I hit the road for the first time.

I'm planning on towing my 4310 with a 420 loader and a 48 backhoe attachment. I figure the total cargo weight is around 6k and my trailer is 14ft with a 7k capacity. I used two ratchet straps that have a WLL of 1,660 lb each and are hooked to the front end of the frame, and I put chains in the rear attached to the backhoe with a WLL of 3,400 lb. I'll be tugging with my Ford F-350

Am I ok to go? Thoughts?

Happy to hear any feedback and advice, thanks!
 

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Bonehead Club Lackey
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If it was me, I'd also strap the bucket down for good measure.
 

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Not sure where you'll be traveling but in some States the police will ticket you for hanging beyond the bed (in your case, on both ends) of the trailer.

I figure the total cargo weight is around 6k and my trailer is 14ft with a 7k capacity.
If that's true you're over-weight. That trailer itself weighs more than 1K lbs.

Not trying to bust your chops here but if they stop you for hanging over the bed of the trailer, you can bet they are going to start looking at weights while they have you stopped. Be ready with answers.
 

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I don’t mean to be the trailer safety police but used to do this for a living....

Your front tie down is actually on the loader frame - not the machine frame.

Your rear tie down is on the backhoe frame - not the machine frame. The backhoe needs its own tiedown besides a tie down on the rear frame of the tractor itself.

The backhoe bucket should be flat on the bed - you are depending on the pins to hold the backhoe up in the air.

The front bucket should also be flat on the bed with its own tie down.

So there you have it from a DOT perspective. Will you be OK? Likely yes. I am citing what a DOT officer would say if you were inspected in a commercial environment.
 

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That single front strap is not sufficient, you said you had two on them but I only see one? Even with two they are undersized. You'll need two, 2" 10k rated ones to be safe IMHO.

What chain are you using with a WLL of only 3,400lbs?
 

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Above advice is good info. If you're truly at 6,000# weight of the tractor then that's technically over the capacity of the trailer because the trailer probably weighs about 2,000#. Will it work anyway? Probably, but if the trailer isn't in perfect condition or if the roads aren't the greatest you are at risk. However, looking at specs for the 4310 on tractordata.com it shows the tractor itself at 2,900#. I don't know how much the backhoe adds but I'd find it hard to believe that the loader, backhoe, ballast and liquids in the tractor add another 3,000#. So you're actually probably not over the trailer capacity.

The other things mentioned about tying down are valid. Best practice is to have separate strapping for the loader and the backhoe too. I'd use axle straps for the front, myself, but as long as you have it hooked to something frame-related its fine. The last point is that as far forward as you have the tractor on the trailer it may have more than the recommended 10-15% tongue weight. More is better than less but just FYI.

Rob
 

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JimR - When we brought my 4720/FEL to our farm four years ago, an experienced JD hauler loaded it onto the trailer that we used, which had ample capacity and length. He backed the machine onto the trailer; apparently in Ohio it is illegal to haul farm machinery forward with the slow moving farm triangle facing rearward. I've not confirmed this, but I believed the guy. As I recall, we chain/boomed the loader arms and the 3 pt draft arms to secure the machine. My BIL white knuckled the 100 mile drive to the tractor's new home.

FWIW, Brian

Not sure where you'll be traveling but in some States the police will ticket you for hanging beyond the bed (in your case, on both ends) of the trailer.



If that's true you're over-weight. That trailer itself weighs more than 1K lbs.

Not trying to bust your chops here but if they stop you for hanging over the bed of the trailer, you can bet they are going to start looking at weights while they have you stopped. Be ready with answers.
 

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As others have said and also do not turn to sharp or you will be running the corner of your bucket into the back of your truck.
 

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At that weight, here you would be required by law to use chains at the 4 corners and not straps. Overloading your trailer will be hard on your axle. It tends to make the wheels TOW in.

If you get stopped you'll need your big wallet as safety and weight violations are expensive because they are more designed for the commercial industry. And remember to tell the nice officer that you never tow for anyone else, just the stuff you own. Otherwise they will say it's commercial and ding you for not having a DOT # even though your rig is less than 26,001 pounds.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks all! I've never done this before so I was just starting to test how and where to tie it down.

I think the bottom line is my trailer is just too small. When I tried tying down the front axels it was impossible to get them out wide enough to make the X pattern you want without hitting the tires, and the rear axels are totally inaccessible due to the backhoe being attached. Not sure if there are other decent frame parts to attach to but the whole back end of the tractor is dominated by the backhoe, I wouldn't be able to get anything from the Axel or rear frame out backwards past the backhoe in a straight line.

As far as the tractor weight goes, 6k lbs, is the high end of my estimation. Tractor weighs 2,900 lbs, backhoe is 1,560 or something lbs, and I couldn't find the weight for the loader. I'm not very good at guesstimating so I figured it's better to round way up and expect the worse, I believe I'm right at or a little under/over the 7k lbs limit on the trailer (is there a clever way to check this with out driving to a scale?)

I don’t mean to be the trailer safety police but used to do this for a living....

Your front tie down is actually on the loader frame - not the machine frame.

Your rear tie down is on the backhoe frame - not the machine frame. The backhoe needs its own tiedown besides a tie down on the rear frame of the tractor itself.

The backhoe bucket should be flat on the bed - you are depending on the pins to hold the backhoe up in the air.

The front bucket should also be flat on the bed with its own tie down.

So there you have it from a DOT perspective. Will you be OK? Likely yes. I am citing what a DOT officer would say if you were inspected in a commercial environment.
I want to make sure I'm doing it right so the trailer safety police is what I came for. I really appreciate the advice :good2:. I thought the purpose for the pins were for transporting or is that just to support the backhoe while I'm driving the tractor around?

That single front strap is not sufficient, you said you had two on them but I only see one? Even with two they are undersized. You'll need two, 2" 10k rated ones to be safe IMHO.

What chain are you using with a WLL of only 3,400lbs?
I actually had two straps but was in the process of dismantling when I thought to take pictures. I miss spoke on the chain, I've got 5/16 grade 43 so the WLL is actually 3,900 lbs I believe. Is 10k straps not excessive, I talked to a commercial CHP (California Highway Patrol) officer who said the combined WLL of all tie downs should be equal to the weight of the cargo. I went a over to be safe but should I go further over?

Above advice is good info. If you're truly at 6,000# weight of the tractor then that's technically over the capacity of the trailer because the trailer probably weighs about 2,000#. Will it work anyway? Probably, but if the trailer isn't in perfect condition or if the roads aren't the greatest you are at risk. However, looking at specs for the 4310 on tractordata.com it shows the tractor itself at 2,900#. I don't know how much the backhoe adds but I'd find it hard to believe that the loader, backhoe, ballast and liquids in the tractor add another 3,000#. So you're actually probably not over the trailer capacity.

The other things mentioned about tying down are valid. Best practice is to have separate strapping for the loader and the backhoe too. I'd use axle straps for the front, myself, but as long as you have it hooked to something frame-related its fine. The last point is that as far forward as you have the tractor on the trailer it may have more than the recommended 10-15% tongue weight. More is better than less but just FYI.

Rob
It felt a little too far forward but I was thinking with the weight of the backhoe in the back I was ok, the trailer looked pretty even to me. Is there a clever way to test the tongue weight? Here is a picture of my suspension unladen, with all the tongue weight I had that little back up leaf spring was just almost touching the pad (excuse the lack of correct terminology.) Could that be a way of telling if I have to much or too little?


Thanks again all! going to start checking Craigslist for a bigger trailer... till then maybe I'll leave the backhoe at home and just take the tiller :laugh:
 

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Trying to answer a couple of your questions -

First off let me say that I for one appreciate you coming here and asking while including pics. The safety of your rig affects me also as well as everyone else on the road.

As far as scaling your load - truck stop scales are cheap in my opinion - last time I went with my pickup a couple years ago it cost me $8.

As far as your tounge weight - they do make hitch inserts that have a scale dial on the but are pretty expensive. What I always did for an off-the-hip solution being I hauled different equipment and my tractor in various stages of implements - I would measure the distance from my rear bumper to the ground with the empty trailer attached. Then after loading I take that measurement again and shoot for a 2” drop in the bumper. I got to the point where I could judge the drop from sitting on my tractor to get it just right. Having the proper amount of hitch weight is so important for how the rig will handle on the road.

As was mentioned above - axle straps really help. Finding good tie down points on these compact tractors is very difficult. You can use them in places other than the axles if need be. I got mine at Tractor Supply.

https://www.realtruck.com/keeper-axle-straps/

BF88F438-A934-4CB2-B5DC-9929D0FBAE57.jpeg
 

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There should be a tag on the tongue that has the GVWR listed and the axel weights.

Those don't look like 7k axles to me but I would find the tag to be sure.

The GVWR is what you need to pay most attention to. That's the trailer and cargo together max weight allowed, so you are covered in not being overloaded.


If you aren't hauling that across country and just a few miles down the road I don't see any problems really.
Yes I get it might not be perfect, but this is not commercial equipment either.

I hope there is brakes on at least on axle. You will need them.
 

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Those are 3500 lb axles being 5 lug so the total is the combined GWR's would be 7,000 lbs and that also includes the trailer weight. Your probley close to 2,000 for a number on the trailer weight. I have the same set up and would not carry my 4044M on it either. I had a MF135 with out a back hoe or loader and it was all it could do hauling it safely! That is a top heavy load and I bet the rear axle is over loaded and you don't have near enough load on the tong so you still steer right. Could be wrong but you are not on your over loads or even close to them I hope you have some weight on the hitch ball? Your trailer should be one with 6-8 lugs on the axle rims, 4 tie downs and longer so the load is on the deck not sticking over. Your biggest concern is having electric brakes that work great cause your truck brakes will fail on you quick in the hills trying to stop it fast. You want control of your tractor if you swerve slam on the brakes ect not just be lucky it went OK. Gross Negligence could make you personally more liable if you wreck and kill some one. Insurance only has to cover what it says in writing, make sure your truck & trailer are covered with a tractor behind it. Just mentioning this cause you asked and I personally would get a bigger trailer with at least a 10K rating you want a safety factor not maxed out. Bumps can damage the axles and bend things when maxed out. Gas engines are OK on the flats but hills suck unless you have lots of HP or a Low Range you can use on the bad grades. Sometimes I down shift to Low Range 4X4 front hubs unlocked and I have a 454 in my 1 ton. Tickets are not cheap and wrecks can own you for a long time compared to the cost of the right trailer to do the job. I know my 7,000 lb rated trailer was like $2,000.00 new and that won't buy my loader on my tractor. 3 ton of hay on this trailer is slow in the corners and watch for laying on the brakes. I don't travel the freeway or 65MPH roads loaded just don't feel right to me. Weight the truck and trailer empty and then the truck to determine the trailer weight. Then go to a feed store and weight the tractor on the trailer so you know how it is on the axles just sitting there. Take it from there if your exceeding the GVWR and Trailer weight allowed. Not sure how your state covers tonnage fee's in adding the trailer loaded in the formula.

The DOT regulations apply to: Vehicles with a GVWR or gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of more than 10,000 lbs. Vehicles with a GVWR of more than 26,000 lbs., which require commercial driver license (CDL) to avoid CDL driver disqualifications.
 

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Hi All
Here is my 1025R on it's trailer, just returned from mowing club grounds (10 acres):thumbup1gif: The tie downs are probably overkill but are very quick and easy to install. I am not a fan of webbing straps. The minimum rating on any of the equipment holding the tractor on the trailer is at least 3 times greater than the weight of the tractor.
The trailer gvm ( Gross vehicle mass) of 3.5 tonnes. The A frame tow bar is hinged hence the short ramp, you unlock the A frame drop the ramp and drive up, as the weight of the tractor goes on the trailer it tilts and up you go. It makes getting the tow ball weight easy.
The yellow fire extinguisher is a requirement in fire season it must contain at least 10 liters of water. And yes it does fowl the FEL, it is held on with 2 bolts so easy to remove.
Regards John
P.S 1 tonne is 1000 kg or 2200 lb or 40 lb less than 1 ton.:thumbup1gif:
 

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The local laws are different in every state/province. For where I live they won't bother you as you aren't commercial unless you were basically trying to haul it with no tie downs at all. I tie down my tractor in a similar fashion but have a longer deck. My suggestions would be to remove the bucket and tie it down in the back of the truck(I'm assuming its a quick attach) , try to lower the backhoe onto the deck and throw a strap on it to prevent bouncing. Also put flagging on anything hanging off the back of the deck. That is one thing that draws attention is loads that hang past the edge of the deck with no flagging.

A longer trailer will make your life much easier. You'll then be able to move the tractor back and forth on the deck to get your tongue weight correct.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Trying to answer a couple of your questions -

First off let me say that I for one appreciate you coming here and asking while including pics. The safety of your rig affects me also as well as everyone else on the road.

As far as scaling your load - truck stop scales are cheap in my opinion - last time I went with my pickup a couple years ago it cost me $8.

As far as your tounge weight - they do make hitch inserts that have a scale dial on the but are pretty expensive. What I always did for an off-the-hip solution being I hauled different equipment and my tractor in various stages of implements - I would measure the distance from my rear bumper to the ground with the empty trailer attached. Then after loading I take that measurement again and shoot for a 2” drop in the bumper. I got to the point where I could judge the drop from sitting on my tractor to get it just right. Having the proper amount of hitch weight is so important for how the rig will handle on the road.

As was mentioned above - axle straps really help. Finding good tie down points on these compact tractors is very difficult. You can use them in places other than the axles if need be. I got mine at Tractor Supply.

https://www.realtruck.com/keeper-axle-straps/

View attachment 654502

Thanks! measuring the bumper is a clever solution, I'll give that a shot.

I was looking at axle straps just the other day, we just got a Tractor Supply in my area recently and I was checking out their selection. I thought to myself "those seem pretty handy!"
 

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Thanks! measuring the bumper is a clever solution, I'll give that a shot.

I was looking at axle straps just the other day, we just got a Tractor Supply in my area recently and I was checking out their selection. I thought to myself "those seem pretty handy!"
I prefer padded/protected version. Helps keep the strap itself from abrading too fast when it goes around metal edges.



Rob
 

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Late to the show

With all the replies and great comments, I'm sure OP's got this all sorted out...

However, I didn't see any other comments about this (sorry if I missed them), but the very first thing that caught my eye in the pic's was the loose end of the strap: The chains look secured, but make sure the loose, slack ends of any straps are secured and not allowed to flail... at all! Wrap those loose ends up with duct tape or strapping tape to the tightened strap. We'd all be really impressed by the damage those straps could do if a loose end got caught under a tire or wrapped around a moving part - We've all seen how the cheap plastic tarps get shredded by tow speed slipstream, and Murphy says the breaking strength of that strap is an amazing multiple of the engineers number!
 
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