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I purchased a BB yesterday, it weighs 400lbs. I used my bucket on my 1026 to unload it from my trailer. I strapped chain to the hooks on my bucket which are mounted on the top of the bucket inline with the lifting arms. I tilted the bucket all the way down so the hooks would be as close to the BB as possible and hooked the chains up. From the BB to the hooks were about 6"-7".

My loader wouldn't pick the BB high enough to lift it out of the trailer which is a 5x10 standard trailer with roughly 1.5' sides. But even trying to tilt the bucket back into regular operating position it still wouldn't do that. It would move and few inches then stop, same as trying to lift it straight up, few inches and stop.

Since the BB only weighs 400lbs and the loaders are rated for 700lbs, shouldn't the bucket have been able to tilt back towards me and lift the BB out of the trailer?

Thanks
 

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Most likely it was because the weight of the BB was so far forwards, that 700lb rating I believe is at the pivot pins
 

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Kenny is correct. The lift rating is as the pivot pins and your bucket/ forks/ any other attachment counts against it as well. If you have a 700 lb capacity and a 200 lb bucket, your payload can only be about 500 lbs at the pins. The extra leverage your load has being so far out in front de-rates the lifting capacity greatly.
 

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I purchased a BB yesterday, it weighs 400lbs. I used my bucket on my 1026 to unload it from my trailer. I strapped chain to the hooks on my bucket which are mounted on the top of the bucket inline with the lifting arms. I tilted the bucket all the way down so the hooks would be as close to the BB as possible and hooked the chains up. From the BB to the hooks were about 6"-7".

My loader wouldn't pick the BB high enough to lift it out of the trailer which is a 5x10 standard trailer with roughly 1.5' sides. But even trying to tilt the bucket back into regular operating position it still wouldn't do that. It would move and few inches then stop, same as trying to lift it straight up, few inches and stop.

Since the BB only weighs 400lbs and the loaders are rated for 700lbs, shouldn't the bucket have been able to tilt back towards me and lift the BB out of the trailer?

Thanks
I just lifted my BB2048 (about 390 pounds I believe) in exactly the manner you describe, and the loader handled it easily. I don't think I was anywhere near rated RPM either. I've got a 1025R, but I can't believe there would be that much difference in the loader capacity. Sounds like something's amiss with your hydraulics.
 

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... I tilted the bucket all the way down
I had the same problem picking up my old BB which was 490lbs. If you tilt the bucket all the way down then the geometry of the bucket cylinders are in an unfavorable position. The cylinder rod is so close to the pivot point that there is little curling force available. I found that I could not do anything to move my BB like that. Then I put the bucket in a more normal position, tried again, and was able to pick it up like it was nothing. In order to load it into this guy's work truck (narrow bed) I had to set it on the ground and come at it from the side. So one end of the BB was in the bucket and a chain was around it to keep it from flopping down. So I had this 5 ft, 490lb box blade sideways in the bucket and I was able to lift it five feet high from the ground. Probably could have gone higher but there was no need.
 

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I am also able to lift my BB all the way. In fact I can lift the 4' rotary cutter easily, but the back gets very light with just the BB on the back.

Can you lift the tractor's front end with the FEL? Mine does easily at idle.

004.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Fred, if i strapped mine up like yours I probably could have done it no problem. I had my bucket tilted all the way forward/down so the hooks were right on top of the BB.

Yes, i can lift the front end of my tractor up with the loader...real easy cleaning the deck that way.

This isn't my tractor but how the bucket sits is how I tried to unload it, and it wasn't having it.
 

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I agree, with the bucket turned down that far your load on the hooks is too far out from the pivot point on the bucket. I load and unload my BB of similar weight all the time. I do need to watch the bucket angle when hooked up to the BB and rotate the bucket back to gain extra clearance on the side of my trailer. :thumbup1gif:
 

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I agree, with the bucket turned down that far your load on the hooks is too far out from the pivot point on the bucket.
That contributes to the issue but mainly it is the hydraulic cylinder being nearly inline with the pivot point when the bucket is turned down all the way, making the curling force available a fraction of what it is when the bucket is level.

The other thing, the higher you raise the boom, the less boom force you have - again, it's the geometry. So lifting the bucket up high and then curling it down all the way puts the loader at a serious disadvantage.
 

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... mainly it is the hydraulic cylinder being nearly inline with the pivot point when the bucket is turned down all the way, making the curling force available a fraction of what it is when the bucket is level.

The other thing, the higher you raise the boom, the less boom force you have - again, it's the geometry. So lifting the bucket up high and then curling it down all the way puts the loader at a serious disadvantage.
W9GFO,

Good points. When the bucket is in the dumped position, the bucket cylinders are laying very near the bucket pivot points thus drastically reducing the retraction power of the bucket cylinders. Likewise, when the boom is raised very high, the boom cylinders lay very near the boom pivot points thus drastically reducing the extending power of the boom lifting cylinders.

Here's something else to consider when using a loader to lift a heavy weight -
A double-acting cylinder has far more extending power than it has retracting power. So for example, in some situations, it might make sense to attach a lifting strap so it hangs from the back (outside) of the bucket and down to the item you are trying to lift. This method has the dual advantages of putting your load closer to the pivot points of the bucket and you'll be extending the bucket cylinders (dumping the bucket) to raise the item (after raising it with the boom). So, this way, the boom geometry and cylinder power is working to maximum advantage to lift your load.
 

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W9GFO,

Good points. When the bucket is in the dumped position, the bucket cylinders are laying very near the bucket pivot points thus drastically reducing the retraction power of the bucket cylinders. Likewise, when the boom is raised very high, the boom cylinders lay very near the boom pivot points thus drastically reducing the extending power of the boom lifting cylinders.

Here's something else to consider when using a loader to lift a heavy weight -
A double-acting cylinder has far more extending power than it has retracting power. So for example, in some situations, it might make sense to attach a lifting strap so it hangs from the back (outside) of the bucket and down to the item you are trying to lift. This method has the dual advantages of putting your load closer to the pivot points of the bucket and you'll be extending the bucket cylinders (dumping the bucket) to raise the item (after raising it with the boom). So, this way, the boom geometry and cylinder power is working to maximum advantage to lift your load.
Could you explain to me why a double-acting cylinder would have more extending power?

If this needs to be in a thread on its own please move it mods.


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Surface area. If you have a 2" diameter cylinder, the extending side has 2" of surface area for the fluid to push against. Say that cylinder has a 1" diameter rod, the retracting side of the cylinder only has 1" of surface area for fluid to work against due to the area taken up by the ram.
 

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2" cylinder would have 3.14 sq in piston end and 1.57 sq in with a 1" rod end. Ya know, pie arrgh squared, and all the get go.
Actually, the cap end would be 3.14 sq in as you said... but the rod end would have 2.36 sq in of area to work on the piston.... 3.14 - .785

So if you put some more numbers to it, at 2500 psi the cylinder while extending would produce 7850 pounds of force, but would only produce 5887.5 pounds of force while retracting.
A cylinder will normally retract much faster than it will extend because of the less displacement on the rod end. (Regen is a different story)
 

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Surface area. If you have a 2" diameter cylinder, the extending side has 2" of surface area for the fluid to push against. Say that cylinder has a 1" diameter rod, the retracting side of the cylinder only has 1" of surface area for fluid to work against due to the area taken up by the ram.
That's all I needed. I'm strong in physics I just hadn't pictured that in my head. Thanks to y'all for that. Constantly learning.


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