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Discussion Starter #1
I just need to vent and looking for possible advice.

I own a 2018 1023e that I really like but it has been a headache with all its issues it has had. I have mentioned a few months back about a 3-point leak down issue in that the arms will leak down within a few mins with any weight on it at all and it has been getting worse. I finally had time to get it to the dealer for service and they have now had it four weeks torn apart trying to figure it out. I call every few days and am very patient as I know they are busy but today when I called to see how it was going I got a response I did not expect. They say again they have it torn apart and are not sure what the issue is. They think it may be an o-ring allowing leak by but are not sure. Then they say the ballast box I have on there is too heavy and probably caused the issue. I immediately took offense and said that is not possible. I reply to the manager "If the box weights 600 lbs I would be surprised". Its the titan green that everyone uses filled with 7 bags of pea gravel. So by my calculation it weights around (48lbs per bag x 7 bags + 132lb titan box = 468lbs). According to the 1023e manual the 3 point lift capacity is 681lbs, 24inches behind the link arms. The service manager told me its 500lb capacity limit on the tractor, which is if true which its not its still under the capacity.

It sure feels like they cant find the issue and want to blame me for the leak down. I really did not appreciate being blamed and told lies about the tractors capacity when in this day and age its so easy to find the facts. I imagine they are going to try and get out of the warranty on this thing based on their comment and the amount of time it has been in the shop. At this point I am so fed up with the tractor I might just sell it and get something different. It has been in the shop twice for a total of 6 weeks on items that I should not have to deal with. I have only had the tractor 8 months and it just rolled over 100hrs. If this is the repair cadence that I have to deal with on top of the dealer experience I think I will start looking at orange paint.

Sorry to vent but when a machine costs 15K+ it should work and not come with dealer hassle. The funny thing is I was going to buy the backhoe and have it installed while it was there but now I don't want to give the dealer any more money.
 

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u need to call :cell:jd corporate and say hey--why does my tractor have to be in the shop for so long?? did ur dealer offer u a loaner to use? i had them offers back when i bought my 2520. even gave me RFM-when my MMM mower was back ordered for several months, i then bought the RFM after my MMM was installed.

i don't have the phone number right now, but i'm sure u can google it. IIRC--the place i called was in South or North Carolina?

don't be shy-ok. sounds like ur dealer isn't too concerned about ya-so go get em. ok good luck.
 

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:dunno:doesn't Muttons have all that area buttoned up? his avatar says he's from fort wayne-so :dunno:i would think he bought from them, maybe not-i don't know for sure where his dealer is from. as in he didn't say.:unknown:

ok-just saw what gizmo2 said he bought from muttons. jeepers--hard to imagine that.
 

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Yeah, I bought it from Mutton. I heard good things and their sales people are great. I didn't want to name the dealer as I do not want to be that guy. There is another dealer (Troxel) close too that I can go to but they deal with heavier equipment. My family farm has bought tons of equipment from them over the years so maybe I will have some pull.

I emailed JD corporate for some relief.
 

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Yeah, I bought it from Mutton. I heard good things and their sales people are great. I didn't want to name the dealer as I do not want to be that guy. There is another dealer (Troxel) close too that I can go to but they deal with heavier equipment. My family farm has bought tons of equipment from them over the years so maybe I will have some pull.

I emailed JD corporate for some relief.
Did you tell that that you know Tim Marks, that should get things rolling, he's famous you know. :hide:
 

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At this point, I'd be expecting them to replace the transaxle assembly, at a minimum, if not the entire tractor. You sure have the basis for a civil suit--possibly even small claims court, for a full refund of your purchase price---depending on what the dollar limit is Indiana. Here, in MN, it is $15K. You may also want to send a letter/complaint to the Indiana Attorney General's office and ask them for help. Check their web site, they usually have info on how to file a complaint.

I really hate to see it come to that, but sure you have been more patient than most and the line from the Service Manager would have sent me over the edge.

I went round and round with Nationstar Mortgage for four months on a foreclosure I had bought at auction and their attempt to change the purchase agreement. One email from the MN Attorney General's Office was all it took to make them see the light.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
At this point, I'd be expecting them to replace the transaxle assembly, at a minimum, if not the entire tractor. You sure have the basis for a civil suit--possibly even small claims court, for a full refund of your purchase price---depending on what the dollar limit is Indiana. Here, in MN, it is $15K. You may also want to send a letter/complaint to the Indiana Attorney General's office and ask them for help. Check their web site, they usually have info on how to file a complaint.

I really hate to see it come to that, but sure you have been more patient than most and the line from the Service Manager would have sent me over the edge.

I went round and round with Nationstar Mortgage for four months on a foreclosure I had bought at auction and their attempt to change the purchase agreement. One email from the MN Attorney General's Office was all it took to make them see the light.
Thank you for the input. I am not afraid to do that and if I don't get my tractor back next week, fixed, I will be going down that road if I cannot get John Deere corporate to help me. I just hate to be that guy but I am feeling like I do not have much of a choice. I did not realize how out of the way and accommodating I have been since I have been dropping it off and picking it up for them taking time off work to do so. They did not even deliver it for me when I bought it, I had to go pick it up. I also did not have the foresight to request a loaner as I did not think that was an option. I guess I am too nice/naive.

It's just so frustrating because through this process they are loosing sales. Like I mentioned earlier, I was going to have them install a backhoe but will have a different dealer do it now. They also sell golf carts and I was looking at one of those for my wife this Christmas but will buy it somewhere else. So that is another large sale they could have gotten. This will not be my last tractor I buy as I am pretty young and have many years of tractor buying left in me but I can tell you it will be the last from this dealer.
 

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I just need to vent and looking for possible advice.

I own a 2018 1023e that I really like but it has been a headache with all its issues it has had. I have mentioned a few months back about a 3-point leak down issue in that the arms will leak down within a few mins with any weight on it at all and it has been getting worse. I finally had time to get it to the dealer for service and they have now had it four weeks torn apart trying to figure it out. I call every few days and am very patient as I know they are busy but today when I called to see how it was going I got a response I did not expect. They say again they have it torn apart and are not sure what the issue is. They think it may be an o-ring allowing leak by but are not sure. Then they say the ballast box I have on there is too heavy and probably caused the issue. I immediately took offense and said that is not possible. I reply to the manager "If the box weights 600 lbs I would be surprised". Its the titan green that everyone uses filled with 7 bags of pea gravel. So by my calculation it weights around (48lbs per bag x 7 bags + 132lb titan box = 468lbs). According to the 1023e manual the 3 point lift capacity is 681lbs, 24inches behind the link arms. The service manager told me its 500lb capacity limit on the tractor, which is if true which its not its still under the capacity.

It sure feels like they cant find the issue and want to blame me for the leak down. I really did not appreciate being blamed and told lies about the tractors capacity when in this day and age its so easy to find the facts. I imagine they are going to try and get out of the warranty on this thing based on their comment and the amount of time it has been in the shop. At this point I am so fed up with the tractor I might just sell it and get something different. It has been in the shop twice for a total of 6 weeks on items that I should not have to deal with. I have only had the tractor 8 months and it just rolled over 100hrs. If this is the repair cadence that I have to deal with on top of the dealer experience I think I will start looking at orange paint.

Sorry to vent but when a machine costs 15K+ it should work and not come with dealer hassle. The funny thing is I was going to buy the backhoe and have it installed while it was there but now I don't want to give the dealer any more money.
FWIW...I have the same Titan box with 8-1/2 bags of pea stone. Estimated weight 550 lbs. give or take, have never had a problem lifting it. Whether that shop can find the problem or not, I'd say there is something wrong. Good luck.
 

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I just need to vent and looking for possible advice.

I own a 2018 1023e that I really like but it has been a headache with all its issues it has had. I have mentioned a few months back about a 3-point leak down issue in that the arms will leak down within a few mins with any weight on it at all and it has been getting worse. I finally had time to get it to the dealer for service and they have now had it four weeks torn apart trying to figure it out. I call every few days and am very patient as I know they are busy but today when I called to see how it was going I got a response I did not expect. They say again they have it torn apart and are not sure what the issue is. They think it may be an o-ring allowing leak by but are not sure. Then they say the ballast box I have on there is too heavy and probably caused the issue. I immediately took offense and said that is not possible. I reply to the manager "If the box weights 600 lbs I would be surprised". Its the titan green that everyone uses filled with 7 bags of pea gravel. So by my calculation it weights around (48lbs per bag x 7 bags + 132lb titan box = 468lbs). According to the 1023e manual the 3 point lift capacity is 681lbs, 24inches behind the link arms. The service manager told me its 500lb capacity limit on the tractor, which is if true which its not its still under the capacity.

It sure feels like they cant find the issue and want to blame me for the leak down. I really did not appreciate being blamed and told lies about the tractors capacity when in this day and age its so easy to find the facts. I imagine they are going to try and get out of the warranty on this thing based on their comment and the amount of time it has been in the shop. At this point I am so fed up with the tractor I might just sell it and get something different. It has been in the shop twice for a total of 6 weeks on items that I should not have to deal with. I have only had the tractor 8 months and it just rolled over 100hrs. If this is the repair cadence that I have to deal with on top of the dealer experience I think I will start looking at orange paint.

Sorry to vent but when a machine costs 15K+ it should work and not come with dealer hassle. The funny thing is I was going to buy the backhoe and have it installed while it was there but now I don't want to give the dealer any more money.
If You have a 2018 1023E the specs state it has a
The specs actually changed Late Last Summer 2017 as soon as the forward ROPS Came out

3-Point Hitch Lift Capacity—61 cm (24 in.) behind arms 758 lb
3-Point Hitch Lift Capacity—at lift link ends 1177 lb
Clearly states It Under 3 point specifications In the Manual
OMLVU31626

Prior Operations Manuals do state
3-Point Hitch Lift Capacity—61 cm (24 in.) behind arms 681Lbs
OMLVU28480

That would really irritate me.

I know My dealer would Not do that to me Because They order aftermarket equipment for there customers all the time especially BXpanded & Heavy Hitch equipment.
They even installed My Artillian Diverter Kit and They told me they will be ordering those if a customer Currently want a Diverter Kit for there 1 series or 2 series Until Deere actually puts out the new Diverter Kit But said More than likely knowing how the new one work they'll still order the Artillian Diverter Kit:bigthumb:
 

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I wouldnt worry too much about name dropping, or being "that guy", as its your tractor, and you are having legitimate issues getting it repaired in any kind of satisfactory manor. Its not the best thing to run a business down without knowing the whole story, but in this case, it doesnt sound like its unfounded.

That said, Im glad that while I got a quote from them, I bought local. Price was actually better when factoring in transporting the tractor.
I agree wholeheartedly about the recommendations from them being wrong, and the fact that its so easy to look up stuff now, its almost comical when dealers try to do this kind of stuff.
It sounds more like they have no clue about what is going on, and because of that, they want to try to find something to blame it on. Either way, thats the wrong approach.
The right thing to do is to tell you what they have done, and whats left to do, and what happens if that doesnt work.
If they cant figure it out, replace the tractor.
The local dealer I bought from did exactly that on the older 2025. They had an issue they couldnt get resolved, had the tractor in 3 times, and were waiting so long on a resolution from Deere that they just put the guy in a new tractor. Once his was fixed, they put it out on the used lot.

It stinks having a dealer you dont think you can trust to get a warranty issue resolved. There are several threads on this that all have the same advice strewn about throughout them.
Go find a better dealer.
I was a bit discouraged at first due to a few issues on my new tractor, but it happens. There are so many sold that have no issues and we generally never hear about those. Its not like people are chomping at the bit to regale us with their tales of non-issues, lol!
But whether its green, red, blue or orange, they all have issues, and they all have good and bad dealers.

Try not to get to discouraged with Deere, but do try to find another dealer to look it over. There is zero reason they should have it that long and not know whats going on.

No matter what route you go, keep us updated! Im sure we would all like to hear of this being resolved for you!
 

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I just need to vent and looking for possible advice.

I own a 2018 1023e that I really like but it has been a headache with all its issues it has had. I have mentioned a few months back about a 3-point leak down issue in that the arms will leak down within a few mins with any weight on it at all and it has been getting worse. I finally had time to get it to the dealer for service and they have now had it four weeks torn apart trying to figure it out. I call every few days and am very patient as I know they are busy but today when I called to see how it was going I got a response I did not expect. They say again they have it torn apart and are not sure what the issue is. They think it may be an o-ring allowing leak by but are not sure.

Then they say the ballast box I have on there is too heavy and probably caused the issue. I immediately took offense and said that is not possible. I reply to the manager "If the box weights 600 lbs I would be surprised". Its the titan green that everyone uses filled with 7 bags of pea gravel. So by my calculation it weights around (48lbs per bag x 7 bags + 132lb titan box = 468lbs). According to the 1023e manual the 3 point lift capacity is 681lbs, 24inches behind the link arms. The service manager told me its 500lb capacity limit on the tractor, which is if true which its not its still under the capacity.

It sure feels like they cant find the issue and want to blame me for the leak down. I really did not appreciate being blamed and told lies about the tractors capacity when in this day and age its so easy to find the facts. I imagine they are going to try and get out of the warranty on this thing based on their comment and the amount of time it has been in the shop. At this point I am so fed up with the tractor I might just sell it and get something different. It has been in the shop twice for a total of 6 weeks on items that I should not have to deal with. I have only had the tractor 8 months and it just rolled over 100hrs. If this is the repair cadence that I have to deal with on top of the dealer experience I think I will start looking at orange paint.

Sorry to vent but when a machine costs 15K+ it should work and not come with dealer hassle. The funny thing is I was going to buy the backhoe and have it installed while it was there but now I don't want to give the dealer any more money.
""What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some service departments, you just can't reach. So you get what we had here the last few weeks, a customer going without his tractor. Which is NOT the way he wants it. But, he gets it. And he don't like it any more than you do.""


What you need are facts, a detailed plan of action and deadlines. Assumptions won't do you or anyone any good.



Deere corporate gains nothing by getting into a customer service argument and denying a warranty claim over the use of the rear 3 point within weight limits on a machine that is less than a year old and only has 100 hours on it, which is reasonably being used as designed and intended. Unless they specifically said "You are going to have a problem with the warranty over this", I think you are getting your self worked up on that issue pointlessly.

You need to have face to face meeting with the Service manager and get specifics. Take notes and write down the details to avoid further confusion.

If your tractor still torn down now? Why? Exactly what has been done thus far?

Has it been torn down, parts replaced, put back together and still leaking? That's a entirely different story. Exactly what is the service tech and service department planning to do NOW?

When will they be done with your tractor? (get a date range, give them a few days, but nail down a deadline date)

If you reach the agreed upon deadline and if they can't seem to repair the leak down, what's the dealer and or Deere going to do then? Get specifics such as "Replace entire rear assembly" or "exchange the tractor for a new one", but find out what to expect. An answer of "keep working on it" isn't the details you need and deserve.

If they can't fix your machine, are they going to replace it? They simply can't leave you with a leaking tractor.....and think that's acceptable. I recall seeing where Deere had released their acceptable standards for FEL leak down (seems like Kenny posted the link and info) on some of the larger tractors.

My 1025R 3 point doesn't drop an inch with 500 lbs on it for a week or more. (I am knocking on wood as I type this...) so obviously they can build tractors which don't leak down the 3 point hitch. So, what exactly is corporate Deere's position on this issue? Are all leak down's unacceptable ( it would seem to me they are) and what do they do when they can't stop the leak down?

Set dead lines which they agree to for all these steps. For example, If the tractor is back together by October 12th and working correctly, they can deliver it to your home at no cost to you, for the inconvenience of having had the machine for weeks. If by October 12th the tractor is back together and still leaking down, exactly what is the dealer going to do? Replace the machine?

Specific's, answers, deadlines, details and an agreed plan of attack and NO assumptions is the only way to solve this problem.

Threats of litigation at this stage are pointless and won't solve the problem. Just clear, concise and open communication will find a resolution to this problem. Cooperation in such matters never improves with the threat of legal action. That's when the local people are removed from the equation and you are left to deal with Deere's corporate customer service and dispute resolution. That's more frustration, more delays and more time without your tractor. Perhaps it will reach that point, but I doubt it will be necessary.

Issues just like this seem more common than ever with the use of emails, voice messages, texts and other communications which don't occur face to face and permit follow up and discussion of the details and agreement by both parties as to what's going on.

Time to get specific with the Service manager about resolving your problem. This is best done face to face. Call the service manager and arrange a time you can come by and speak with him / her / them. Don't just show up expecting to talk to the Service manager as they could be out for a legitimate reason and then you are not talking to the person in charge plus your frustration just grows.

After all, that's their job, to take frustrated customers and work to solve the problems the best way they can.

Sometimes, there are machines which just suck and have problems. There are others which have few if any problems. No one has any idea what their luck of the draw will be. Switching to orange might not solve a thing and could even make your problems worse. After all, Orange has service department for repairs and warranty work as well.
 

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Leak downs

I think most, if not all machines will leak down over time whether it's a 3ph or FEL. The key is how fast does it leak down. If it takes days or weeks to move a foot, hey- the oil is just slowly migrating past O rings. On the other hand, if you can see the movement that means an O ring is cut or there is a machining issue which is allowing oil to move when it shouldn't.

While I agree that your ballast box is within the acceptable weight limit, it's still possibly the cause of the issue if at some point the machine bounced. Then that 500 lbs could exert a couple of thousand pounds of dynamic load which in turn could blow an O ring. If I was the dealer and didn't see any obvious issues, when the machine is torn down I'd replace all the seals and O rings with new because sometimes it's devilish hard to detect a small imperfection in an O ring. Another potential issue is a slight burr somewhere that's tearing a seal or an O ring during reassembly. While the dynamic loading could actually be a reason to deny a warranty claim, it would be foolish for the dealer and/or Deere to do so as it would be impossible to prove unless there was other damage.

If they put new seals and O rings in, reassembled the machine and it still had the issue I'd have to guess there is a rough spot somewhere in the machining. It doesn't take much and the issue may not be visible to the naked eye so it's hard to blame the techs. Unless they have the time to literally touch all the surfaces and/or use some sophisticated equipment, it may be impossible to find. That's where Sulleybear is right on target. If they tear it down and rebuild it and the problem is still there, what's the next step?

Many years ago we bought a brand new combine which for us was a rare occurrence. In the first hours of running it, the engine developed an oil leak. The dealer sent a tech and they torqued everything to spec again and it still leaked. Within a day, they swapped out the engine for a brand new one and took the old one back to the shop for tear down. It turned out one bolt was just a fraction too long and was bottoming out before it should. (Maybe it was the threads were a fraction short, I don't specifically remember but it was just a small error on one bolt.) In any case, it took a while to find the issue but we were up and running in an acceptable time frame. I think that's Sulleybear's point- stuff happens and sometimes the techs and dealers can't find the issue right off the bat. However, there should be a plan B and maybe even a Plan C but it's probably up to you to have that discussion and ask what Plans B and C are. If you get a blank look from the service manager, I'd ask to have the general manager or owner to sit in on the conversation. Be reasonable, acknowledge that some issues are hard to solve but also be firm that weeks in the shop with a piece of equipment you expect to be running isn't acceptable. If the dealer offers a loaner, make sure you get an agreement on what's included. Do they deliver? Is it a close enough replacement so you can do the work you need to do? How long is reasonable for them to work on your equipment before just swapping it for a new unit? You might even walk into the meeting with a plan of your own such as: If it can't be fixed and back to me in X days, I need a loaner of a comparable piece of equipment which is in full working order, all shields in place and no issues. Even if I have the loaner, I expect my issue to be solved in Y days, either by repair or replacement. If the dealer can't meet the Y day deadline, I expect a full refund. (If the loaner is a much better, nicer piece of equipment then maybe there's no rush.)

As others have said, keep us posted. Some problems are really, really difficult to solve but that shouldn't keep you from having equipment to use. One example- think about how much of a PITA it would be to find the issue if a cylinder had a very slight imperfection in the middle of the cylinder wall. Since all cylinders leak past the O rings at a very slow rate, there wouldn't be any discernible leak down until the seal got to that point. Then it would leak down faster until it got past the imperfection and go back to an acceptable rate. If the imperfection was porosity in the metal instead of a burr, it would be difficult if not impossible for a tech to find it.

Let us know how it goes.

Treefarmer
 

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I think most, if not all machines will leak down over time whether it's a 3ph or FEL. The key is how fast does it leak down. If it takes days or weeks to move a foot, hey- the oil is just slowly migrating past O rings. On the other hand, if you can see the movement that means an O ring is cut or there is a machining issue which is allowing oil to move when it shouldn't.

While I agree that your ballast box is within the acceptable weight limit, it's still possibly the cause of the issue if at some point the machine bounced. Then that 500 lbs could exert a couple of thousand pounds of dynamic load which in turn could blow an O ring. If I was the dealer and didn't see any obvious issues, when the machine is torn down I'd replace all the seals and O rings with new because sometimes it's devilish hard to detect a small imperfection in an O ring. Another potential issue is a slight burr somewhere that's tearing a seal or an O ring during reassembly. While the dynamic loading could actually be a reason to deny a warranty claim, it would be foolish for the dealer and/or Deere to do so as it would be impossible to prove unless there was other damage.

If they put new seals and O rings in, reassembled the machine and it still had the issue I'd have to guess there is a rough spot somewhere in the machining. It doesn't take much and the issue may not be visible to the naked eye so it's hard to blame the techs. Unless they have the time to literally touch all the surfaces and/or use some sophisticated equipment, it may be impossible to find. That's where Sulleybear is right on target. If they tear it down and rebuild it and the problem is still there, what's the next step?

Many years ago we bought a brand new combine which for us was a rare occurrence. In the first hours of running it, the engine developed an oil leak. The dealer sent a tech and they torqued everything to spec again and it still leaked. Within a day, they swapped out the engine for a brand new one and took the old one back to the shop for tear down. It turned out one bolt was just a fraction too long and was bottoming out before it should. (Maybe it was the threads were a fraction short, I don't specifically remember but it was just a small error on one bolt.) In any case, it took a while to find the issue but we were up and running in an acceptable time frame. I think that's Sulleybear's point- stuff happens and sometimes the techs and dealers can't find the issue right off the bat. However, there should be a plan B and maybe even a Plan C but it's probably up to you to have that discussion and ask what Plans B and C are. If you get a blank look from the service manager, I'd ask to have the general manager or owner to sit in on the conversation. Be reasonable, acknowledge that some issues are hard to solve but also be firm that weeks in the shop with a piece of equipment you expect to be running isn't acceptable. If the dealer offers a loaner, make sure you get an agreement on what's included. Do they deliver? Is it a close enough replacement so you can do the work you need to do? How long is reasonable for them to work on your equipment before just swapping it for a new unit? You might even walk into the meeting with a plan of your own such as: If it can't be fixed and back to me in X days, I need a loaner of a comparable piece of equipment which is in full working order, all shields in place and no issues. Even if I have the loaner, I expect my issue to be solved in Y days, either by repair or replacement. If the dealer can't meet the Y day deadline, I expect a full refund. (If the loaner is a much better, nicer piece of equipment then maybe there's no rush.)

As others have said, keep us posted. Some problems are really, really difficult to solve but that shouldn't keep you from having equipment to use. One example- think about how much of a PITA it would be to find the issue if a cylinder had a very slight imperfection in the middle of the cylinder wall. Since all cylinders leak past the O rings at a very slow rate, there wouldn't be any discernible leak down until the seal got to that point. Then it would leak down faster until it got past the imperfection and go back to an acceptable rate. If the imperfection was porosity in the metal instead of a burr, it would be difficult if not impossible for a tech to find it.

Let us know how it goes.

Treefarmer
Good post.
I just had my truck repaired, it was an off the wall problem. The truck had been to the original dealer 4 times. I went to another dealer and the truck was there for 5 weeks. The truck is now fixed.
 

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After reading all the posts, I do find some things interesting.

1. It doesn't matter how much weight you put on your 3 point. If it lifts it, you are not damaging it. It has hydraulic reliefs just like the FEL so if you overload it, it just won't lift what you have on it.

2. So, based on this, the person that you talked to at the dealership that said you may have overloaded the 3 point has no clue what they are looking for and how this system works, which should be of concern.

3. There are essentially two things that will allow a 3 point to leak down. One is a rockshaft cylinder seals are allowing oil to leak by and two, the rockshaft cylinder control valve is allowing an excessive amount of oil to leak by.

4. Now for the big problem. The 3 point should have been tested prior to tearing it apart. To find a 3 point leak down problem, the test is simply. Raise the 3 point with a load attached and close the rate of drop valve below the seat. With the rate of drop closed and the engine off, the 3 point should not leak down at all. (Now, the technical manual gives an allowable leak down of 2" in 10 minutes with 500 lb. on the 3 point with the rate of drop valve closed. I personally disagree with this, although, this is the spec that JD would use.). If the 3 point does leak down, the piston seals are the problem. If the 3 point does not leak down with the rate of drop valve closed, then open the rate of drop valve all the way and time how long it takes the 3 point to leak down. The allowable leakage is again, 2" in 10 minutes with 500 lb. on the 3 point. As others have said, the 3 point will leak down over some time, although, it shouldn't leak down so fast that you can watch it drop or faster than 2" in 10 min. with 500 lb. hanging on it. So, if the 3 point now leaks down at a fast rate, then you have a rockshaft valve problem.

5. So, was this test done? If not, the JD dealer is chasing their tail looking for problems in areas where the problem may not be located.

6. The 1023E has a different kind of 3 point lift valve than the 1025R. Because the 1025R has a feed back system on the 3 point, with the engine running, the 1025R will compensate for any leakage that occurs while using it with the engine running. With the 1023E, the operator has to make these adjustments.

So, did the 3 point leak down at a faster rate than 2" in 10 minutes with 500 lb. hanging on it with the engine off? If it didn't leak down faster than this, there is nothing wrong with it.

If it did leak down at a faster rate than 2" in 10 min. with 500 lb. hanging on it with the engine off, then the problem could be the valve or piston seals. This is when you close the rate of drop valve to determine where the problem is.

If this test wasn't done, there is no way to know if there is a problem and further, there is no way to know where the problem is if there is a problem.

At this point, the dealer should put the rockshaft back together with new seals and then test it. If it still leaks down with the rate of drop valve open, then they should also replace the rockshaft control valve. They should be able to do all of this work on one day.
 

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""What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some service departments, you just can't reach. So you get what we had here the last few weeks, a customer going without his tractor. Which is NOT the way he wants it. But, he gets it. And he don't like it any more than you do.""


What you need are facts, a detailed plan of action and deadlines. Assumptions won't do you or anyone any good.



Deere corporate gains nothing by getting into a customer service argument and denying a warranty claim over the use of the rear 3 point within weight limits on a machine that is less than a year old and only has 100 hours on it, which is reasonably being used as designed and intended. Unless they specifically said "You are going to have a problem with the warranty over this", I think you are getting your self worked up on that issue pointlessly.

You need to have face to face meeting with the Service manager and get specifics. Take notes and write down the details to avoid further confusion.

If your tractor still torn down now? Why? Exactly what has been done thus far?

Has it been torn down, parts replaced, put back together and still leaking? That's a entirely different story. Exactly what is the service tech and service department planning to do NOW?

When will they be done with your tractor? (get a date range, give them a few days, but nail down a deadline date)

If you reach the agreed upon deadline and if they can't seem to repair the leak down, what's the dealer and or Deere going to do then? Get specifics such as "Replace entire rear assembly" or "exchange the tractor for a new one", but find out what to expect. An answer of "keep working on it" isn't the details you need and deserve.

If they can't fix your machine, are they going to replace it? They simply can't leave you with a leaking tractor.....and think that's acceptable. I recall seeing where Deere had released their acceptable standards for FEL leak down (seems like Kenny posted the link and info) on some of the larger tractors.

My 1025R 3 point doesn't drop an inch with 500 lbs on it for a week or more. (I am knocking on wood as I type this...) so obviously they can build tractors which don't leak down the 3 point hitch. So, what exactly is corporate Deere's position on this issue? Are all leak down's unacceptable ( it would seem to me they are) and what do they do when they can't stop the leak down?

Set dead lines which they agree to for all these steps. For example, If the tractor is back together by October 12th and working correctly, they can deliver it to your home at no cost to you, for the inconvenience of having had the machine for weeks. If by October 12th the tractor is back together and still leaking down, exactly what is the dealer going to do? Replace the machine?

Specific's, answers, deadlines, details and an agreed plan of attack and NO assumptions is the only way to solve this problem.

Threats of litigation at this stage are pointless and won't solve the problem. Just clear, concise and open communication will find a resolution to this problem. Cooperation in such matters never improves with the threat of legal action. That's when the local people are removed from the equation and you are left to deal with Deere's corporate customer service and dispute resolution. That's more frustration, more delays and more time without your tractor. Perhaps it will reach that point, but I doubt it will be necessary.

Issues just like this seem more common than ever with the use of emails, voice messages, texts and other communications which don't occur face to face and permit follow up and discussion of the details and agreement by both parties as to what's going on.

Time to get specific with the Service manager about resolving your problem. This is best done face to face. Call the service manager and arrange a time you can come by and speak with him / her / them. Don't just show up expecting to talk to the Service manager as they could be out for a legitimate reason and then you are not talking to the person in charge plus your frustration just grows.

After all, that's their job, to take frustrated customers and work to solve the problems the best way they can.

Sometimes, there are machines which just suck and have problems. There are others which have few if any problems. No one has any idea what their luck of the draw will be. Switching to orange might not solve a thing and could even make your problems worse. After all, Orange has service department for repairs and warranty work as well.
Sulley and I are usually singing from the same sheet of music, but I have to, respectfully, disagree in this instance. Sulley emphasizes "face to face" communications. While I agree, this forces the man to look you in the eye, when he is stating his position or making his claims, and this can temper his response. However, it gives you absolutely nothing to base a claim upon if they fail to uphold any verbal commitments.

A good case in point is the recent Kavanaugh confirmation hearings. You have one party accusing and another denying. There is nothing in writing and no corroborating witnesses. That is why I have been and continue to be a proponent of email or other forms of communication where this is a specific record of what those communications were. In situations where I have been compelled to meet in person to discuss the issues, the first thing that comes out of my brief case is my pocket tape recorder. Granted, that changes the entire tone of the meeting and more often than not, in a poor way. None the less, it tends to keep everyone honest.

I agree with Sulley, once you threaten litigation or file an action, communications at the local level have ended and you're dealing with corporate counsel. If you have a strong, well documented case, this is not always a bad thing. Corporate counsel realizes what it costs to litigate and the fact they are the Goliath automatically establishes sympathy for you with, what is more often than not, a liberal judge. So often, corporate counsel will seek to settle the matter.

As you are of the conclusion that the dealer is going to claim you overloaded the 3-point and, in turn, seek to charge you for all the time they have in disassembling it multiple times, (which is probably approaching the sale price of the base 1023E) I am of the opinion that you are on the threshold of litigation.

Seeking assistance from the Attorney General's Office I would not consider litigating. It would likely start with them sending a letter to the dealer and/or JD stating your position and asking for a response to it. It does send the message that you are serious, intelligent, and will not be shanghaied into accepting a defective product or paying for what should be a warranty issue. I'm not familiar with Indiana statutes, but most states have a number of consumer protection laws on the books that may come into a play and along with that comes punitive dollars, which are typically sizeable.
 
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