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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good Evening Everyone,

I have a MY2013 1025R. No matter the temperature the glow plug circuit on the Yanmar built engine only lights up for approximately 6 seconds. Even below 0 degrees F. I have read on the Yanmar site that they usually time them at 15 seconds. Please time how long your glow plugs lighting up for? I have what appears to be unburnt fuel and an extremely rough start that lasts upwards of a minute. Anything below 50F this starts like this. The colder, the worse it gets.

One time with my New Holland, I had a glow fail and the plugs would only light a fraction of the time it was prior to the failure. If you could please time your glow plug circuit and report the time, outdoor temperature( colder the better) and how long (seconds) it runs rough after starting if it does at all, (like only 2 of the 3 cylinders are producing power).

Second part of my question, does anyone know if the cooling circuit has an internal bypass around the thermostat to allow for circulation prior to the opening of the thermostat? And has anyone bumped up to the optional 180 degree thermostat from the 160? I want to use an in line lower radiator hose coolant heater (preferably temperature controlled) rather than the block heater, that should have been factory installed.

Thanks so much.

Kindest Regards,
Bill
 
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Good Evening Everyone,

I have a MY2013 1025R. No matter the temperature the glow plug circuit on the Yanmar built engine only lights up for approximately 6 seconds. Even below 0 degrees F. I have read on the Yanmar site that they usually time them at 15 seconds. Please time how long your glow plugs lighting up for? I have what appears to be unburnt fuel and an extremely rough start that lasts upwards of a minute. Anything below 50F this starts like this. The colder, the worse it gets.

One time with my New Holland, I had a glow fail and the plugs would only light a fraction of the time it was prior to the failure. If you could please time your glow plug circuit and report the time, outdoor temperature( colder the better) and how long (seconds) it runs rough after starting if it does at all, (like only 2 of the 3 cylinders are producing power).

Second part of my question, does anyone know if the cooling circuit has an internal bypass around the thermostat to allow for circulation prior to the opening of the thermostat? And has anyone bumped up to the optional 180 degree thermostat from the 160? I want to use an in line lower radiator hose coolant heater (preferably temperature controlled) rather than the block heater, that should have been factory installed.

Thanks so much.

Kindest Regards,
Bill
I can't take credit for this as one of the other members here suggested this and I used it today at 10 degrees. Cycle the glow plugs more than once. I did it for three times today and it worked really great. Turn the ignition on, when the glow plug light goes out, turn off the ignition and do it again. I also used the 300 watt magnetic oil pan heater for about 4 hours before starting it. I also point a 400 watt infrared heater at the tranny for the same length of time.

For the thermostat, I used a leaf bag unfolded and completely covering the radiator today for the first time and the temp came up to the same point it does in the summer. It did not do that the last time I plowed snow at 20 deg warmer temp.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Tried that already

Dave,

Thank you much for the reply.

I cycled 5 times today and it was 40F out. Still rough. Like the oil pan and infrared idea, but I hope to get the specific answers to my asked questions..... without any special things being done.

I really hate the way this fires up.... I have had diesels of all sizes for the past 25+ years. If Yanmar/JD thinks this starts right, then they need new engineers.

Thanks!
Bill
 

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It's not right by any means.

I'm not handy to where I can reference the tech manual for you. But I will when I can.

Are you still under warranty?
 

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Dave,

Thank you much for the reply.

I cycled 5 times today and it was 40F out. Still rough. Like the oil pan and infrared idea, but I hope to get the specific answers to my asked questions..... without any special things being done.

I really hate the way this fires up.... I have had diesels of all sizes for the past 25+ years. If Yanmar/JD thinks this starts right, then they need new engineers.

Thanks!
Bill
I agree that this is not right. In the summer, I do not even wait for the glow plugs. I just go ahead and hit the starter and my 1025R starts right up. The previous time, at 30 deg. I cycled only once and it started rough, but smoothed out in about 30 seconds, of course with some blue smoke. I am wondering if you are using winter blend fuel and if you are using any kind of additive.

Dave
 
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Hi Bill,hope you get your problem solved and I moved your thread to the appropriate forum.
 

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Glow Plug Function
To provide an added source of heat for the combustion chamber during startup.



Glow Plug Operating Conditions
Key switch in the START or RUN position


Glow Plug Circuit Theory of Operation
High levels of battery current are required to heat the glow plugs. To switch these heavy currents, the instrument control cluster employs a glow plug relay. A dedicated wire and fuse link connects the battery to the relay.

When power from the key switch first activates the control cluster, the glow plugs (via the relay) and glow plug indicator light are initially powered for five seconds. The glow plugs will also be energized as long as the engine is in crank mode.

Have glow plugs checked. Check for proper/clean fuel. Also, an old trick was to put range shifter in gear, either high or low and turn the key to start position. Engine should not start but the glow plugs will be on. This may warm the engine a lil more to ensure a smoother start.
Yanmar may call for a 15 sec glow plug time. But the glow plug time is controlled by whatever platform the engine is installed in. In the 1025 its controlled by the instrument control cluster via the glow plug relay.
Todays diesel engines are a far cry from what many are used to in years gone by. They smoke, they shake, sputter and gag when cold. I think the older engines started smoother and with less smoke than the new tier4 ones. Ultra clean fuel with a good additive is a must for proper operation.
 

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Just as xcopterdoc stated, 5 seconds is what the cluster is set to cycle the glow plugs.

Here's the diagnosis excerpt from the tech manual.

Text Font Line Number
 

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Glow Plug Function
To provide an added source of heat for the combustion chamber during startup.



Glow Plug Operating Conditions
Key switch in the START or RUN position


Glow Plug Circuit Theory of Operation
High levels of battery current are required to heat the glow plugs. To switch these heavy currents, the instrument control cluster employs a glow plug relay. A dedicated wire and fuse link connects the battery to the relay.

When power from the key switch first activates the control cluster, the glow plugs (via the relay) and glow plug indicator light are initially powered for five seconds. The glow plugs will also be energized as long as the engine is in crank mode.

Have glow plugs checked. Check for proper/clean fuel. Also, an old trick was to put range shifter in gear, either high or low and turn the key to start position. Engine should not start but the glow plugs will be on. This may warm the engine a lil more to ensure a smoother start.
Yanmar may call for a 15 sec glow plug time. But the glow plug time is controlled by whatever platform the engine is installed in. In the 1025 its controlled by the instrument control cluster via the glow plug relay.
Todays diesel engines are a far cry from what many are used to in years gone by. They smoke, they shake, sputter and gag when cold. I think the older engines started smoother and with less smoke than the new tier4 ones. Ultra clean fuel with a good additive is a must for proper operation.
Good post, I learned something today already.
Wish I could see your location in your profile.
 
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I have found that turning the key to on, letting the glow plug light go out and then immediately turning the key off and back on and waiting on the glow plug light to go out again is the best way to crank the tractor in cold....at least in our "cold". 30 degrees is about the coldest I've started the tractor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It's not right by any means.

I'm not handy to where I can reference the tech manual for you. But I will when I can.

Are you still under warranty?
Yep. Called dealer, then corporate was nice got nasty got nowhere.... I have to go to the dealer and use my universal key to start a few.....

I checked for voltage on cranking, after I tried the low/high no crank trick to heat her up... No joy after 20 seconds. Then I found out why. There is no glow action in crank mode. Would this be a relay failure or is this, as someone else had suggested in another post, JD way of getting you to buy a new tractor because they threw a monkey wrench in a tough motor to "wear it out".... Something like the below......

Why in Gods name would they use a 160 degree thermostat??? The 180 seems right. Seems to me that it would have oil dilution running this low.....

If it is correct that the plugs should be on during cranking, might be the problem.......

I want to try checking the ohms on each of the glows too.... What a place to get to!!

Bill
 
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Remember when you ohm out the glow plugs to isolate them from power and each other. If the glow plugs are working with "key on", but not in crank mode, then I would lean towards an ICC problem. I hate trying to diagnose an electrical problem from afar! I'd take it back to the dealer and have them really look into the glow plug circuit.
I doubt Deere would ever purposely engineer a fault of some kind into anything they sell just for it to wear out so you have to buy another one. Sooner or later no one is gonna buy it just to have it wear out. Do they make things like they used to? NO! And if they did, no one would be able to afford it. JMHO.
I hope your dealer steps up and takes care of your problem, whatever it may be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Remember when you ohm out the glow plugs to isolate them from power and each other. If the glow plugs are working with "key on", but not in crank mode, then I would lean towards an ICC problem. I hate trying to diagnose an electrical problem from afar! I'd take it back to the dealer and have them really look into the glow plug circuit.
I doubt Deere would ever purposely engineer a fault of some kind into anything they sell just for it to wear out so you have to buy another one. Sooner or later no one is gonna buy it just to have it wear out. Do they make things like they used to? NO! And if they did, no one would be able to afford it. JMHO.
I hope your dealer steps up and takes care of your problem, whatever it may be.
Yep Copter, I would do exactly what you described. I am an electrical engineer. Just to cold to futz with it. If others are having luck activating multiple times, I am still thinking I have a bad plug. Just that to get to the connections it is ridiculous. I have tree stumps for fingers. One fills the hole they are buried in..... I am going to try starting w/o waiting, to see how bad it is, if it starts at all. May go out and try now..... I will follow the trouble shooting guide in a previous post... Obviously they have done it at least one time:mocking:

Yeah, I would not think they would do it on purpose.... But these "smart" kids today with no common sense.... Well they don't have to try to futz it up sometimes.

Bill:bye:
 

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Good Evening Everyone,

I have a MY2013 1025R. No matter the temperature the glow plug circuit on the Yanmar built engine only lights up for approximately 6 seconds. Even below 0 degrees F. I have read on the Yanmar site that they usually time them at 15 seconds. Please time how long your glow plugs lighting up for? I have what appears to be unburnt fuel and an extremely rough start that lasts upwards of a minute. Anything below 50F this starts like this. The colder, the worse it gets.

One time with my New Holland, I had a glow fail and the plugs would only light a fraction of the time it was prior to the failure. If you could please time your glow plug circuit and report the time, outdoor temperature( colder the better) and how long (seconds) it runs rough after starting if it does at all, (like only 2 of the 3 cylinders are producing power).

Second part of my question, does anyone know if the cooling circuit has an internal bypass around the thermostat to allow for circulation prior to the opening of the thermostat? And has anyone bumped up to the optional 180 degree thermostat from the 160? I want to use an in line lower radiator hose coolant heater (preferably temperature controlled) rather than the block heater, that should have been factory installed.

Thanks so much.

Kindest Regards,
Bill
Just got home and timed my glow plug circuit. It lasted 8 seconds. I did it three times and each time around was exactly the same. It's also about 8F outside, but the tractor is inside in an unheated garage.

Mine is on it's third winter starting like this. If yours is any different, get it fixed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsme38jak0o&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Maybe it's the audio in the vid, but my tractor makes a loud ticking sound when I turn the key, before starting it. Didn't hear that on yours. :unknown:
 

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Maybe it's the audio in the vid, but my tractor makes a loud ticking sound when I turn the key, before starting it. Didn't hear that on yours. :unknown:
The audio in the video is very very low. But the ticking noise you hear is the electric fuel pump running. That's a good sound.:good2:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Just got home and timed my glow plug circuit. It lasted 8 seconds. I did it three times and each time around was exactly the same. It's also about 8F outside, but the tractor is inside in an unheated garage.



Maybe it's the audio in the vid, but my tractor makes a loud ticking sound when I turn the key, before starting it. Didn't hear that on yours. :unknown:
I would imagine the ticking you are referring to can be heard prior to starting? That most likely would be the electric fuel pump

Xskier.... If mine started that good at 50 degrees I would be thrilled. I will have to get a video and post. Should do it tonight.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
I would imagine the ticking you are referring to can be heard prior to starting? That most likely would be the electric fuel pump

Xskier.... If mine started that good at 50 degrees I would be thrilled. I will have to get a video and post. Should do it tonight.....
Here is the video VID 20140107 190350 963 - YouTube :cray:

Dieselshadow is this normal or is Xskier's rig normal... My vote I the latter.
 
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Here is the video VID 20140107 190350 963 - YouTube :cray:

Dieselshadow is this normal or is Xskier's rig normal... My vote I the latter.
I think that is about normal. Try cycling the key twice....turn the key on, wait for the light to go out, turn the key off and back on. Once the glow plug light goes out a second time start the engine. It will be a little more smooth and should smooth completely out a little sooner.
 

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I think that's fairly normal. The engine lit off pretty quick and within a few moments it was smoothing out with no white smoke. Cycling the plugs twice before starting may help you.
 
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