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Discussion Starter #1
This time, it's not green- rather it is orange. I was killing time on the woods site and ran across the BW12 12 foot batwing. I do a ton of mowing every year and it takes a lot of time- 2 and a half days to mow a 60 acre farm. Of course, I'm not getting anything this expensive for a while, so any discussion is purely pictorial, but I was wondering if 1) anyone has a 12 footer like this, and 2), the 4510 has 33 pto HP, just 2 less than spec calls for. Would the 4510 work?
 

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We used to pull the 12 foot batwing with a 90HP tractor,,
the 60HP was not enough,,,

I just got a 32 PTO HP tractor,, I would not even consider a 12 foot,,,

I think, for me,, 8 foot would be a stretch,,,
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I forgot to say I almost never mow heavy weeds and grass. Just grazed grass and sedge.
 

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I did look at those when looking to purchase a rotary cutter but after they told me the price I quickly decided on the JD MX8. I am not familiar with your model tractor but I would think that you would want to stay well within your tractors capability
 

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Weight matters

If I'm reading the specs right, that mower weighs 4,900 lbs and calls for a minimum of 55 hp. We run a 15' Bushhog with an IH 90 hp tractor that weighs quite a bit more than the mower. I wouldn't want to lessen either the hp or tractor/mower weight ratio. It's not all about the horsepower, it's also about having enough weight and traction to handle the implement. If you only run the mower on very flat ground with thin, short grass you might possibly make it work. In a real world, I think it's asking for trouble and you would soon be looking to trade either the tractor or the mower.

Treefarmer
 

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I turn a regular 5' Woods Billy Goat with 27.4 PTO HP in high range 2nd normally, don't think I could turn a 6' except maybe in low range 3rd or 4th.

I'm guessing you'd be beyond your 33 HP capability trying to turn a 12' batwing.
 

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bat-wing finish mower

I will start this off saying I would be lost without my frontier FM2017. I do use a 2014 4720 cab tractor which has 58 PTO HP. I do have a 72" MMM for it, but it became obvious that it just added to many tractor hrs, time, and fuel to keep using it to mow what I mow, that is why I got the 2012 FM2017. Used of course. I bought it from a JD dealer in OH for 11,500. Less than half of new. It was in great shape, but almost all of the tires needed tubes. I watched it sit on his lot for almost a year before he accepted my offer. I have been more than happy with it. I do wish that it had the larger tires on the decks. the bigger tires are MUCH better for flotation, and non compaction. Something to keep in mind is that 15ft and up mowers are heavy. Also know that DEERE doesn't make these mowers. 12 & 15 footers are made by WOODS, the 17 & 21 footers by Befco. If you find a good deal on a Frontier buy it but get the parts from the original manufacture. It will much cheaper and quicker than going thru DEERE, Trust me I know, but that is another story. These types of mowers are NOT in large demand, so JD dealers don't stock many if any parts for them, which leads to a minimum 2 week waiting period. For the smaller units go to any Woods dealer, for larger units Frontier/Befco I use www.germanbliss.com/befco. Great prices, super fast well priced shipping direct from Befco if not in there stock, and they stock a lot of parts for them.




Now. How does it mow? One of the best mowers I've used. It's 17' Frontier(Befco), (3-72" decks) FM2017. I routinely cut 4-6", some times 7-8" lawn at 4-5 mph with no problems. Great cut quality. Key word here is LAWN, NOT hay. Will it cut 12-18" grass with a 4720? Yes but the max speed is about 1-2 mph, and forget about running over what you just cut with another pass. Better off slowing down to a crawl on the first pass, as the clippings are even harder to cut than the original grass. The key to these mowers are sharp blades that are kept that way, the larger front anti-scalp roller on the decks, proper belt tension, overall deck/ machine set-up, and rear chain guards. I cut around edges of hay fields, large gas meter station in field, and sides of roads, along with about 6-7 acres of lawn. One great advantage of the bat-wing set up is quick and easy blade removal to replace or sharpen, plus cleaning of decks. I do mow on quit a few hillsides and the cabbed 4720 handles it going across the hills very well. Does the mower dog-track going across hillsides? Yes, but the Frontier/Befco outside decks can be slid left or right to increase/decrease overlap as needed depending on how steep of ground you are mowing. I should mention that I have both R4'S and turfs that are loaded, but now, because of hillsides usually have R4'S on. I also have suitcase weights for the front if needed. I haven't needed them yet. would I run a 17 footer on anything less than a 4720? NO. would I run a 15 footer with a 3720, I don't know, but I know guys that do, and are happy with it. I can guarantee that is fairly flat, and the grass isn't over 6" high. It all depends on YOUR land that you cut, how often its cut, and how fast you want to go. Cutting 5-6" grass at 5-5 1/2 mph on fairly level ground is a quick pace, which my 4720 pulling a 17' bat wing finish mower handles quite well. I should add that another option that I would not be without is the hydraulic release for the decks, weather you have a cab or open station. I added it after running mine after a while. I couldn't stand having to turn around and yank on the rope every time I had to drop the decks from transport mode. It did cost 500.00 bucks, but well worth it for me.



To summarize. Would I spend that amount of money, even on a used one. You bet. Any regrets? Yes. Wish I could have waited to find a used 2014-15 yr one as they have the larger deck tires on those years. That wasn't an option given mine is a 2012 model yr that was only 1 1/2 yrs old at the time I bought it. I needed and wanted one and got it at my price and pounced at the opportunity when it came up. Even made a trip out of picking it up in OH. Me, the wife, and two of our friends jumped in the 3500 with the the trailer drove to the village of Sugar Creek OH, spent the next day walking around the shops, eating, taking in the sights, and libations, laid over, got up early, left the girls at the hotel, drove to the dealer loaded it up, picked the girls up, got breakfast, and headed home. A Great time. I get my a$$ busted a lot that the family homestead looks like a golf course where the neighbor doesn't cut the hay, but after spending 5-6 days straight in a rig there is only two other places I'd rather be than in the cab, AC and tunes cranked, ice cold beer in the cup holder, de-stressing/relaxing "cutting the lawn"! Putt Putting around on the 530 or spending time with the wife and kids. That's why guys buy what they buy, serving many purposes at one time/expense.


Just my POV. Hope this helps. Allen.

P.S. To answer your question directly. At 33-35 hp the MAX width I would go is 12' more like 10', and you might be hard pressed to run that. It really depends on your land, grass height, moisture, and speed. from what you've stated it won't be that thick which will take less power, just can't have a mower that weighs more than tractor or you could be in real trouble . All I can tell you is if you can run one safely, you'll wonder why you didn't get one sooner.
 

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This time, it's not green- rather it is orange. I was killing time on the woods site and ran across the BW12 12 foot batwing. I do a ton of mowing every year and it takes a lot of time- 2 and a half days to mow a 60 acre farm. Of course, I'm not getting anything this expensive for a while, so any discussion is purely pictorial, but I was wondering if 1) anyone has a 12 footer like this, and 2), the 4510 has 33 pto HP, just 2 less than spec calls for. Would the 4510 work?



Sorry, just realized you were talking about a bat-wing brush-hog. I wouldn't run that with your tractor. I was speaking of bat wing FINISH(lawn) mower. finish mowers take less power to run. Still hope this helps. At least you have another option, depending on grass conditions.



Allen.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
fwiw...

the specs call for 35 HP, and says its 2400 pounds/750 pound tongue weight.


 

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I think the video guys estimate for acreage per hour was WAY off,,, :flag_of_truce:
Not including turns,, he would have to have been going 10MPH
allow 30% for turns, and overlap,, he would have to go 13MPH,,,

He probably, realistically did more like 5 acres per hour,,,
 

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John do you need or want the brush cutter verses a finish mowing bat wing? The finish mowers are less hp and Jasper04 gave a pretty good review.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
John do you need or want the brush cutter verses a finish mowing bat wing? The finish mowers are less hp and Jasper04 gave a pretty good review.
I really don't know. I usually use the bush hog for 1) mowing trails for electric fences (I wouldn't need a 12' path, so I wouldn't use this for pathmowing) and 2) mowing down residual grass and weeds after I have grazed through an area. This is what this machine would be used for. I occasionally mow goldenrod fields to reclaim it as pasture, but not very often. once again, all of this discussion is purely theoretical and for future reference, so don't go looking for a new brush mower thread.:nunu::laugh:
 

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I think the video guys estimate for acreage per hour was WAY off,,, :flag_of_truce:
Not including turns,, he would have to have been going 10MPH
allow 30% for turns, and overlap,, he would have to go 13MPH,,,

He probably, realistically did more like 5 acres per hour,,,
I can easily see how he could go 10MPH as I routinely mow at max speed in B range which is 9MPH until the ground gets so hard later in the year that I have to slow down. I also can see how he could get more than 5 acres per hour as I also routinely do much more than that with a 110 inch RFM. Sometimes as much as 10 acres per hour, although I admit that I have not scientifically checked it out.

Dave
 

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I've pulled a 6 foot Woods finish mower for the last 20 years on hilly terrain with a 30hp tractor and there is no way I could double the size of my mower. In the Spring when the grass is thick and higher, the black smoke would roll.
Things would have to be darn near perfect for a 35hp machine to handle a 12ft mower.
 

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I suggest you take a look at the Befco products. I have this 110 inch C70 model. One of the nice features is that it has swinging blades like a brush hog. I have already bent two of them. Without that feature, I might have had to replace a spindle. BEFCO - Cyclone C70 (30-70 HP tractors)

I find that when mowing grass, it does not even make the turbo kick in and I usually mow at max speed of 9MPH in B range, allowing me to mow as much as 10 acres per hour. However, when mowing tall stuff, sometimes as tall as 4-5 ft, then the turbo does kick in and drinks the fuel, plus I have to slow down a little. I do mow at 4 inches, which takes a little less power than a lower cut. I think that is about as big as you would want to go and it pretty much will mow anything you have indicated you would need to mow. It is very heavy duty and weighs close to 1500lbs. This makes a great ballast. The fact that it is 3pt makes it much more maneuverable. Another big plus is that it rides on 4 wheels, one at each corner, rather than only the rear wheels of a brush cutter. Finally, I think you will find that it is cheaper than the brush cutter alternatives that you have considered.

DAve
 

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I've pulled a 6 foot Woods finish mower for the last 20 years on hilly terrain with a 30hp tractor and there is no way I could double the size of my mower. In the Spring when the grass is thick and higher, the black smoke would roll.
Things would have to be darn near perfect for a 35hp machine to handle a 12ft mower.
Reading this kinda amazes me at how different regions can greatly impact what we do with our tractors. I use a 6' woods behind my 3520 and can honestly say I would have no concerns at doubling the width. A close neighbor pulls a FM2012R (12' flex wing mower) with his Deere 1050 and does so weekly spring through fall with no issues at all. I think it comes down to many variables such as grass variety, the cutter design (side discharge or rear, gearing in box, blade type/condition) altitude, etc etc etc more so than I and likely others realize. If I'm in the ballpark of these variables being correct then that would definitely explain a lot of the debates I've read on different forums regarding horsepower and what a tractor can or can not do.
 

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Reading this kinda amazes me at how different regions can greatly impact what we do with our tractors. I use a 6' woods behind my 3520 and can honestly say I would have no concerns at doubling the width. A close neighbor pulls a FM2012R (12' flex wing mower) with his Deere 1050 and does so weekly spring through fall with no issues at all. I think it comes down to many variables such as grass variety, the cutter design (side discharge or rear, gearing in box, blade type/condition) altitude, etc etc etc more so than I and likely others realize. If I'm in the ballpark of these variables being correct then that would definitely explain a lot of the debates I've read on different forums regarding horsepower and what a tractor can or can not do.
Interesting indeed.
Even with my 3039R I'll lose several rpm coming up the hill in moderate grass. Often times with my former tractor which was a few hp smaller, It would lose a lot of rpm if my schedule wasnt able to keep up with Spring grass and I let it get too high.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I forgot to say I mow about 7-9 inches, unless I am pathmowing, I go about 4-6.
 

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What is the max drawbar weight capacity of your drawbar?
I think my 4105 has a max of about 800 pounds,,
the batwing is close to that,,,
I would imagine it might get costly if you break a few drawbars.

I would be trying to figure out how to attach it to the three point hitch,,
the 3PH has a much higher rating,,,
 

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What is the max drawbar weight capacity of your drawbar?
I think my 4105 has a max of about 800 pounds,,
the batwing is close to that,,,
I would imagine it might get costly if you break a few drawbars.

I would be trying to figure out how to attach it to the three point hitch,,
the 3PH has a much higher rating,,,
This is surprising. Online Deere manual shows the capacity at 882lbs for my 3520 and I would have assumed the 4000 series would be quiet a bit more.
 
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