Green Tractor Talk banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
GX345 died for no apparent reason. Has good spark, fuel out of pump. After removing carb, discovered the shutoff solenoid was the problem. Forced it open and now starts but not running right. In order to get the carb and some linkage to come off, I had to remove the governor arm from governor shaft which is held by a pinch nut. I had a little struggle to get the arm to slide off. Use a screwdriver to pry the "nut" off the shaft.
Before reassembly, I noted the gov shaft has some end play... maybe 3/16" give or take. Also noted that the shaft can only be rotated a slight amount. I would say based on a clock face, it only rotates about from 12 o'clock to 1 o'clock... minimal amount.
After rechecking that throttle was set to wide open and shaft rotation in same direction CCW, I reassembled. Problem now is that engine seems to missing some power or RPMs on wide open. Also moving throttle button from idle makes hardly any change until reaching the top end where it runs fastest as it will now. I've been able to mow with it but it struggles on hillside going up and across a big bunch of leaves it bogs down like it never used to do. So I'm concerned the governor is giving me the problems. I did not mess with any settings on the carb or anywhere else.
I'm wondering if the gov could have been damaged by prying off that pinch nut. I'm really worried that the whole thing has to be torn down to even get to taking off that area where the governor is exposed.
Any ideas or thoughts much appreciated. With the large air handling assembly that the carb is up against, it's impossible to watch the linkage to see what is going on.
Thanks very much !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Can't address your 345 directly, but it has the same basic engine as my 6x4 Gator, with which I'm intimately familiar. The governor travel you describe is pretty much what it is so don't worry about that. The end play in the shaft is normal. Having said that, I'm thinking your problem is governor related. Not sure what the throttle linkage looks like on your 345, but it's probably held in place by two screws, with one of the screw holes slotted for adjustment. Loosen the screws and rotate the entire assembly in the direction that tends to stretch the spring that controls the throttle arm. That should allow the governor to open the throttle a little more on demand. Check it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks very much for the reply. It is encouraging and very helpful. The hard thing is that the carb top is right up against the air handling "box" so you can't even view or work with it's linkage and see what you are doing. I will have to review what you wrote when I get back to the project and see what I can figure out. Also the air handling plastic unit I'm referring to has the radiator right on top of it so that is another hindrance to accessing the carb. Anyway... thanks much for your helpful comments. Regards...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
It's most likely the governor based on your description

I have a GX345 and rebuilt the engine this past spring and I am familiar with adjusting the governor. Unfortunately, you have opened up a can of worms by removing the governor arm from the shaft. I'll try to find the procedure tomorrow and pm it to you.

You really should have a tach to set the governor correctly. It sounds like it is operating below speed now, however you will need to set the max RPM after you adjust the arm. I purchased an inexpensive tach/hour meter from Amazon for less than $20. Without a tach, you run the risk of setting the max RPM too high and over-speeding the engine.

If you need to remove the carburetor at some point again, do not remove the arm from the governor shaft, the Deere service manual recommends against it even when you are rebuilding the engine. It's takes a little bit of maneuvering but you can get the carburetor off without removing the governor arm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the input guys.... I spoke with fellow that services all the small engine stuff at my local JD dealer. He printed out the pertinent pages from the JD service literature for me and gave me some help in my problem.
I did remove the carb again …. and... the governor bracket from the governor shaft in order to recheck all my work. Seems I have everything right or close to it? After a bit of a test drive again, it seems like the governor is working or close to working properly. The tractor can tackle the hillside better than before but still isn't running correctly. The JD serviceman didn't seem overly concerned that I had remove the governor arm.
Issue still remaining is that, for example, pushing up the throttle control fairly swiftly will kill the engine. A slower movement will increase the speed without killing it. It still doesn't seem to be quite up to max speed and it doesn't always run smoothly. A neighbor that is very good at mechanics and has had lots of JD equipment took a look. Though things looked OK but figured it might be a dirty carb valve so going to try some Seafoam in the gas tank. Not sure if the spring on the gov arm is taught when it should be... always seems kinda limp.
As you increase the throttle control, there seems to be little or no change until the last 1/4 or so of it's travel at which point it comes up nearly to it's max speed. When lowering the throttle, it seems to more gradually change as one would expect. Will have to give it some more thought. No I don't have a way to check RPM.. at least it is definitely running too fast.
Thanks for your time guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Likely your engine would be racing if you had a governor failure. Recheck the simple things such as the linkage and throttle plate is working freely, the static governor adjustment should be rechecked, control cable locked down in the proper position. Should the Seafoam not pretty up the inside of the carb, you may need to go back inside regarding the hesitation. When this happens, is it starving for fuel or is it smoking and loading up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Did you get the procedure for indexing the arm to the governor shaft? I don't recall finding that in the JD manual and pulled it from the Kawasaki manual. It's really not an issue that you pulled the arm but you do need to properly index the arm following the procedure below.

The procedure in the Kawasaki manual provides the following:
  • Install the governor arm onto the governor shaft temporarily.
  • Install the control panel assembly, and connect the governor arm with the governor spring.
  • Be sure the link spring around the throttle link rod is in place and that it pulls the governor arm and throttle lever each other.
  • Loosen the clamp nut on the governor arm enough to move the governor shaft.
  • Turn Top end of the governor arm counterclockwise to fully open the carburetor throttle valve and hold it there.
  • Turn the governor shaft counterclockwise by inserting a needle into the shaft end hole. Fully turn the shaft to end of its travel and tighten the nut to the specification
  • Be sure the governor shaft extend from the governor arm is approximately 7mm (0.3in).
Once that is done you should complete the steps in the JD manual starting on page 141 and ending on page 144.

If you haven't done the above, it would explain the issues that you are describing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Well in reworking everything, I did check for all those things you mentioned. When watching the governor arm (upper end with throttle linkage on it) and operating the throttle control knob, that are is what I see moving a little as you advance the knob, then not much movement for next portion of throttle knob movement. Then it seems to catch up again (like maybe a weak spring action at which point it next finishes as far as it will go determined by the linkage I guess. That governor arm movement should be a direct connection via the linkage rod, to the carb throttle valve. So it seems logical that with the uneven movement I see, corresponds to the uneven speeding up of the engine.
I will have to review all this tomorrow so as to maybe describe it a bit better. BTW, the choke action seems to work just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Just making sure that you specifically performed steps 4 through 6.

It seems odd that the spring would be weakened, as you didn't have the problem before, unless you stretched it when taking the carburetor off.

Still sounds like an adjustment issue to me but if you didn't replace the carburetor to manifold gaskets, you could have a leak causing some erratic behavior.

And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I strongly advocate picking up a cheap tach.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks again .. for the Kawasaki proceedures… just the way I did it. Hate to admit I had to make my own gaskets out of cardboard box as I didn't want to have to wait several days for them. The one against the block might be more important than the air intake side. Looked good when I reworked things.
I don't know if it is looking for fuel or smoking was asked.. not clear on how to determine that except I didn't see any smoke, ha.

Well time for bed.. recheck things tomorrow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
The cardboard box trick is new to me. I have made my own gaskets by purchasing gasket sheet material at my auto parts store.

Don't discount the importance of a good seal on the air filter side. My GX only had a little over 500 hours on it when I rebuilt it as the elbow connecting the carb to the air filter box was cracked and allowing dirt into the engine. The previous owner either didn't care or realize the amount of damage sucking dust into an engine can do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
So are you running on both cylinders? What is your wot rpms?

I have a 345 that had a similar issue. I adjusted rpms and have more power. You really need a tach to set wot rpms on the money 3500ish if like th FD590V. If you have worked on enough of these Kaws you can get pretty close by ear. But I still double check with tach.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
After much rework, I think we are doing much better. I thoroughly cleaned and lubed the panel that the throttle and choke cabling is mounted to. I located the exact JD gaskets and used them on reassembly. I found out the I didn't have correct info from the local JD serviceman regarding settings for the governor. Just the opposite of what it should be but now think that is corrected. Can't give it much of a try on the snowy ground right now. I got the speed adjusted to about what I remember it to be for wide open throttle.

Main problem remaining is that upon quick acceleration with throttle lever, it stutters and dies. If I ease up the speed, it works fine. I've dumped some Seafoam into tank and ran it for awhile but no improvement thus far. My last resort may be to tear it apart again and tear down the carb itself and clean or put in a kit.


Any other thoughts before I do that? Have done enough times now to be able to do a disassembly with my eyes shut I think. May have gotten some dirt into the carb in the original process of looking for the reason for not starting at the beginning of this adventure. Gotta get this running well before I put the snow blower on which could be needed any day now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
I'm not sure what you have done so far, but if you still have the original fuel lines, I would suggest that you replace them before cleaning the carburetor. It won't fix the current issue but may prevent it from happening in the near future once you have fixed it. If the lines haven't been changed, at the very least replace the line between the carb and the filter however I recommend that you change them all.

Did you adjust the idle mixture screw? It sounds like you may be running lean at idle causing it to stumble on acceleration. If you did change it, I would try opening the screw a quarter turn at a time to see if resolves the issue. If you didn't attempt to adjust it, I would not touch it at this point.

Finally, before rebuilding the carburetor, I would pull the float bowl, remove the float and needle, crank the engine to flush some gas through the inlet. Hit the main jet with carb cleaner. You can also spray into the air bleeds if you remove the plastic elbow. Re-assemble and give it a try.

If you are still having issues, which you likely will unless you find dirt in the bowl, rebuild is next. When I recently rebuilt mine, I bought a empty one quart paint can from my local big box hardware store and a spray can of carb cleaner. The carb will fit in the 1 quart can and the spray can of carb cleaner has enough fluid in it to submerge the carb. It takes a little finagling to fit the carb in can, but it will fit. You should be able to search this form and find better procedures than I can write on how to rebuild the carb. At a minimum, soak the carb overnight.

Also, maybe someone who has had experienced your exact issue, stumbling coming off idle, can chime in with better advice that I have given.

Good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I'm not sure what you have done so far, but if you still have the original fuel lines, I would suggest that you replace them before cleaning the carburetor. It won't fix the current issue but may prevent it from happening in the near future once you have fixed it. If the lines haven't been changed, at the very least replace the line between the carb and the filter however I recommend that you change them all.

Did you adjust the idle mixture screw? It sounds like you may be running lean at idle causing it to stumble on acceleration. If you did change it, I would try opening the screw a quarter turn at a time to see if resolves the issue. If you didn't attempt to adjust it, I would not touch it at this point.

Finally, before rebuilding the carburetor, I would pull the float bowl, remove the float and needle, crank the engine to flush some gas through the inlet. Hit the main jet with carb cleaner. You can also spray into the air bleeds if you remove the plastic elbow. Re-assemble and give it a try.

If you are still having issues, which you likely will unless you find dirt in the bowl, rebuild is next. When I recently rebuilt mine, I bought a empty one quart paint can from my local big box hardware store and a spray can of carb cleaner. The carb will fit in the 1 quart can and the spray can of carb cleaner has enough fluid in it to submerge the carb. It takes a little finagling to fit the carb in can, but it will fit. You should be able to search this form and find better procedures than I can write on how to rebuild the carb. At a minimum, soak the carb overnight.

Also, maybe someone who has had experienced your exact issue, stumbling coming off idle, can chime in with better advice that I have given.

Good luck
Thanks so much for all your input! I have done about everything... 3-4 times over. I have open anything that was removable and used carb cleaner spray several times followed by compressed air. I did remove what may have been the idle mixture screw (someone had broken away the plastic around the screw head in order to adjust it in the past). I wanted to clean that out as well. I've done everything suggested and it STILL behaved the same... stumbles and dies on moving up the throttle control quickly. I did make an access opening in the air handling unit that sits directly on top of the carb (makes it impossible to adjust or change). The access opening allowed me to try adjusting that screw. I made quarter turn adjustments through about 2 revolutions... was of no help. For the heck of it, I brought it back to where it was and then tried turning screw in bit by bit which also really was of no help.

The frustrating thing is that it had been behaving fine prior to this complete shut down that resulted in the fuel shutoff solenoid failing.
I don't think that by just driving a metal piece down alongside the shutoff pin of the solenoid and reinstalling it would be causing a problem.
I did happen to notice that there is an opening involved related to that device once I had the bowel off... guess it would be stretching a lot
but could try replacing with a new one... just not at the price JD wants for this $10 part... about $150 is there price.

So I'm about to give up but sure would like to find a bargain on a replacement carb... even a know good clean used one would be considered.

Again thanks and best regards !

Right off the bat when I first pulled the carb, I let it soak in a little tub in gasoline overnight. Then wiped off as much grease and grime as I could and used cleaner and air on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
It does seem odd to me as well that the issue just showed up, I'm not a big believer in coincidences like this one.

I'm out of ideas outside of a pulling the carb and soaking it for 24 hours (in carb cleaner, not gasoline) then repeating the cleaning process. Gasoline is an okay solvent for oil and grease, but not for the varnishes that build up in the carb.

The only other thought is maybe it's possible to install the gaskets upside down and block a passage, I can't remember if that could happen or not. Assuming you are pulling the carb again, I would check the gaskets for improper installation. I'm reaching here but I'm out of ideas.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top