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Discussion Starter #1
Had this problem last year dealer checked it out,and found nothing.what would cause this thing to crank for 10 seconds on cold starts.and then it spits and spudders most of the time some back firing for the first five seconds and then it's runs fine.would the fuel pump leaking back cause this.if I use the tractor with in 24 hours of a cold start,it starts right up and runs fine no back firing or anything.could some x700 owners chime in on there cold winter starts.
 

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Had this problem last year dealer checked it out,and found nothing.what would cause this thing to crank for 10 seconds on cold starts.and then it spits and spudders most of the time some back firing for the first five seconds and then it's runs fine.would the fuel pump leaking back cause this.if I use the tractor with in 24 hours of a cold start,it starts right up and runs fine no back firing or anything.could some x700 owners chime in on there cold winter starts.
Hi Slickzone, My X738 does the same thing and has since new. Warm, no problems at all, just when it's cold like below 40 degrees. Dealer said it's the gas engines that do that and allowable.. What I do now is start the tractor with maybe half throttle. It clears the sputtering and black soot in seconds then runs smooth.. I use good gas, change the spark plugs regularly do my six month maintenance, (even though it is under the recommended hours deal) so what else its there to do? I know with a carburetor and choke this does not occur like my Husky, starts right up and never sputters but this EFI ???? And the ten seconds of turning over, same thing... I had the chance to go the diesel route but elected the gas :dunno:. I have enough diesel equipment, so I cannot explain my decision. I figured the diesel would be worse than gas come 20 degrees!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Wierd you would think with the EFI it would behave better in the cold.never had a EFI engine act like this.well the steel impeller I put in the blower works great,just had 6 inches of wet heavy stuff and it did a great job.i like the engine just hate the cold starts.thanks for the post
 

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slickzone; I know this kinda sounds dumb, but have u thought of putting a block heater in it. it would make every start a warm start with using the block heater. sounds dumb-huh, using a block heater in a gas block. just thought i'll throw that out their.
 

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Wierd you would think with the EFI it would behave better in the cold.never had a EFI engine act like this.well the steel impeller I put in the blower works great,just had 6 inches of wet heavy stuff and it did a great job.i like the engine just hate the cold starts.thanks for the post
I agree it should be much better, but it's not.. In fact when it was sputtering, the black soot was all over the right side of the Yellow Snowblower and it was actually hard to get off! It just smeared instead of cleaning up. Had to use some good cleaner on it.. Bad soot!
About the steel impeller.. Glad it's working for you. I was pleased myself and it wasn't that big a deal to take everything apart either, (thanks to Franks post).. The only small difficulty was removing the auger assembly and putting it back, I did loosen up one side of the auger to give it room to slide out and I am glad the auto lift did all the lifting too!
To bad we have to put up with things like the starting issues and needing to fix a blower with a brand new machine.. I hate so say, all my other machines I have ever owned, never had such issues as this 738 did.. I runs good now because I cannot stand something not running right or to my expectations, no matter the cost, I need it done.. Every once in a while I still have the starting issue because I forget to put the throttle up, oh well, we deal with it.. I still love the machine for what it does and in a lot less time then anything I have ever owned in the past.. Happy New Year SlickZ.. :hi:
 

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slickzone; I know this kinda sounds dumb, but have u thought of putting a block heater in it. it would make every start a warm start with using the block heater. sounds dumb-huh, using a block heater in a gas block. just thought i'll throw that out their.
Not a dumb idea at all - way up north it is common to have block heaters on vehicles with gas engines.

Being this starting issue seems to be par for the course with this engine a block heater would be a good solution.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I called JD last year about a block heater,and of coarse we don't offer anything for the gas engine.what would you guys use.does this engine have a freeze plug.
 

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Had this problem last year dealer checked it out,and found nothing.what would cause this thing to crank for 10 seconds on cold starts.and then it spits and spudders most of the time some back firing for the first five seconds and then it's runs fine.would the fuel pump leaking back cause this.if I use the tractor with in 24 hours of a cold start,it starts right up and runs fine no back firing or anything.could some x700 owners chime in on there cold winter starts.
My guess is you have dirty injectors. Get some good injector cleaner. I typically use Gold Eagle STABIL for anything gas. Ethanol (STUPID GOV'T) screws with the gas terribly and makes things harder to start. Did it start well when new??
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It's been like this from day one.i believe the fuel pump is leaking back.the dealer will be dealing with this next week.
 

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It would be interesting to install an inline fuel pressure gauge to perform some tests. Generally, EFI engines pressurize the fuel system when you turn the ignition through the run position. Most systems also maintain some minimum line pressure when at rest. By installing an inline fuel pressure tester you can do the following:

Test the running fuel pressure against factory specs
Test rest pressure to determine whether there's an internal leak
A leaky fuel pump check valve will bleed rest pressure / fuel back into the tank leading to extended cranking during startup
A leaky injector could lead to plug fouling and / or smoke at start-up
Check fuel pressure when engine is under load at speed to determine whether the fuel system can maintain pressure and volume.​
If all of the above tests look good you may be looking at a imperfect ECM / EFI Calibration that provides too rich of a fuel mixture during cold start.
 

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What oil do you run as well? Things can get pretty cold here and everything I have runs synthetic 5wXX for that reason. I inherited my current craftsman lawn tractor from my FIL and moved it in the Winter with regular Dino oil and it was hard to start. With synthetic, it is a much less drama filled event to start it in the cold.

Sounds like you may have fuel delivery issues but the right oil will make starting that much easier.
 

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It's been like this from day one.i believe the fuel pump is leaking back.the dealer will be dealing with this next week.
Does it do it both summer and winter? Leak down may cause it but I still think something is gumming up based on your 24 hour statement. Gas with ethanol does that fairly quickly and my guess from the size motor in these that the pintals in the injectors are quite small. Would be easy to stop up the works. Get Stabil, and a very good injection cleaner. God knows how long the engine was sitting before you got it "new", which would contribute to the problem.
Not a dumb idea at all - way up north it is common to have block heaters on vehicles with gas engines.

Being this starting issue seems to be par for the course with this engine a block heater would be a good solution.

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Hi Slickzone, My X738 does the same thing and has since new. Warm, no problems at all, just when it's cold like below 40 degrees. Dealer said it's the gas engines that do that and allowable.. What I do now is start the tractor with maybe half throttle. It clears the sputtering and black soot in seconds then runs smooth.. I use good gas, change the spark plugs regularly do my six month maintenance, (even though it is under the recommended hours deal) so what else its there to do? I know with a carburetor and choke this does not occur like my Husky, starts right up and never sputters but this EFI ???? And the ten seconds of turning over, same thing... I had the chance to go the diesel route but elected the gas :dunno:. I have enough diesel equipment, so I cannot explain my decision. I figured the diesel would be worse than gas come 20 degrees!
JT, boy that is the dealer's answer for a lot of things.... it's allowable. Must be what JD teaches in tech classes anymore.

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JT, boy that is the dealer's answer for a lot of things.... it's allowable. Must be what JD teaches in tech classes anymore.

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I know your right! Like slicks, mine only does this during the cold weather. In the summer it never starts like this so I ruled out what has been mentioned here. If it starts great in spring, summer and fall and the dealer tells me this is normal, what am I to do? I have found you can't fight JD, and the dealer does not care. He only cares about how much it will cost me to truck the machine for a total four hour trip! I hope Slick finds out what is wrong with his this week so others along with myself can attempt to take care of ours! It would be nice to tell the dealer what is wrong and go **** yourself with your "allowable" crap..
I know this has nothing to do with the tractor but we used to get this from our lumber yards back years ago. The plywood had huge voids in the laminations and when we *****ed about it we were all told, the AWA says it's allowable... Really, you put your foot thru the plywood when walking on a roof and that's allowable.. Horse S, it is.. It was not allowable for us but it was for the mills and the yards to sell??? Same with #2 SPF lumber, had bark on edges so bad you had to look at every piece so you didn't include it in a floor or wall system. A rounded over edge doesn't work to well Appling drywall or sheathing! But that was "allowable".. In other words take it or leave it, your call but we are selling it cuz this is all your going to get! :nunu: Geesh!
 

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There is a whole list of things to check for hard starting, rough running, running rich ect. However, only doing it in colder temps is a puzzle. Deere recommends starting at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle. The reason has to do with the ecm. The x700 efi uses a very basic system of sensors and programming. Not at all like your car or even an efi gator.
Now.. From what I have read and been told, the ecm has no programming when engine speed is below 1200 rpm. So it defaults. When the engine is cold, it may not get up to speed fast enough at idle to allow the ecm to start adjusting the fuel curve. If started at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle, the engine speed will pick up faster after intially starting, the ecm will adjust and it will clear up and run fine.
As a technician I would check everything on the list first just to make sure. I have also seen bad grounds, lose or corroded connections cause some weird things. Temps and weather conditions can cause an electrical issue.
As a JD master tech, its my job to fix it right the first time, quickly and efficiently. We strive to do this. But we are human. Comebacks are frowned upon. They also decrease my pay! If a concern is in fact allowable, or normal operation, I attach those findings to the repair order for the customer to read. That, however is the exception rather than the rule. Most times, there is a root cause. Just have to find it.

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There is a whole list of things to check for hard starting, rough running, running rich ect. However, only doing it in colder temps is a puzzle. Deere recommends starting at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle. The reason has to do with the ecm. The x700 efi uses a very basic system of sensors and programming. Not at all like your car or even an efi gator.
Now.. From what I have read and been told, the ecm has no programming when engine speed is below 1200 rpm. So it defaults. When the engine is cold, it may not get up to speed fast enough at idle to allow the ecm to start adjusting the fuel curve. If started at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle, the engine speed will pick up faster after intially starting, the ecm will adjust and it will clear up and run fine.
As a technician I would check everything on the list first just to make sure. I have also seen bad grounds, lose or corroded connections cause some weird things. Temps and weather conditions can cause an electrical issue.
As a JD master tech, its my job to fix it right the first time, quickly and efficiently. We strive to do this. But we are human. Comebacks are frowned upon. They also decrease my pay! If a concern is in fact allowable, or normal operation, I attach those findings to the repair order for the customer to read. That, however is the exception rather than the rule. Most times, there is a root cause. Just have to find it.

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Well xcopterdoc, some things such as the cold start issue on the 1025R seem to be built in as a factory defect. Why the Ops tractor will start fine within 24 hours is also a mystery. I cannot imagine it retains that much heat in very cold weather. I can get the 1025R to start very well, by cycling the glows and then starting with the glows on for the 5 seconds after the third cycle. This could have been accounted for in the ECM. My old New Holland had a sensor that allowed for the glows to stay on longer with lower ambient temps. Never started rough at all, (even at minus 20F) and that engine came with a block heater standard, that was never used. The glows could be programmed to stay on after start as well, just as I do with my routine. Not sure if this is an EPA nonsense rule or just JD engineers being overly stupid. it is a 50-50 shot in the dark with that one. That "ain't" normal in my book, and certainly should not be acceptable/allowable, but every one of them starts this bad, I went with my master key and started every one on the lot. My dealer does not seem to think it is a problem.

Must wash the cylinders clean so the engine wears faster.

I apologize for my rant. If you have a suggestion I am open to it.:bigbeer:
 

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Well xcopterdoc, some things such as the cold start issue on the 1025R seem to be built in as a factory defect. Why the Ops tractor will start fine within 24 hours is also a mystery. I cannot imagine it retains that much heat in very cold weather. I can get the 1025R to start very well, by cycling the glows and then starting with the glows on for the 5 seconds after the third cycle. This could have been accounted for in the ECM. My old New Holland had a sensor that allowed for the glows to stay on longer with lower ambient temps. Never started rough at all, (even at minus 20F) and that engine came with a block heater standard, that was never used. The glows could be programmed to stay on after start as well, just as I do with my routine. Not sure if this is an EPA nonsense rule or just JD engineers being overly stupid. it is a 50-50 shot in the dark with that one. That "ain't" normal in my book, and certainly should not be acceptable/allowable, but every one of them starts this bad, I went with my master key and started every one on the lot. My dealer does not seem to think it is a problem.

Must wash the cylinders clean so the engine wears faster.

I apologize for my rant. If you have a suggestion I am open to it.:bigbeer:
The OP's problem is a head scratcher for sure. Not one I would care to tackle without having my own hands on it and doing my own investigation.
In my experience, Deere will react to systemic problems better than any one else. They are not afraid to call it a problem if it is in fact a problem. The problem lies in the fact that the dealer techs don't or won't report failures or concerns. Reporting builds the data base. As do warranty claims. Doing that, gets their attention. Also, its the use of the solution data base that techs don't refer to when they have a problem. It's a tool that should be used and is often overlooked. I think I saw another post about a belt jumping off on a snow blower. Fix was already out.. Dealer never checked. Makes us all, at the dealer level, look bad. Training could also be a factor. Or lack there of. But that's another story.
My apologies to high jacking the OP's post. Let us know what your dealer finds Slick.
I see 1025r TLB that your are from Scranton PA. I was born there ( closest hospital) and have much family in the area. I always tell everyone, "it was a great place to be FROM".


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Discussion Starter #19
All I can say is I have a great dealer,and these guys will get to the bottom of this problem.i just did a 5-30 oil change on it yesterday royal purple.i have not tried the half throttle start,maybe that's the problem.i will try that today and update.
 

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All I can say is I have a great dealer,and these guys will get to the bottom of this problem.i just did a 5-30 oil change on it yesterday royal purple.i have not tried the half throttle start,maybe that's the problem.i will try that today and update.
I hope Xcopterdor's right. Mine does start much better at half throttle like he stated, so maybe that's the fix? I just hate when it starts at that RPM that maybe the pumps and engine are not all that protected inside,, Cold oil, cold hydraulic fluids,, that stuff, and it does make a certain noise like it wants to groan for a few seconds! (my fluids are all where they belong on the dip sticks) But I am sure the oils and hydraulic fluids JD sells are for those temps anyway.. It's warranted for three more years and no way near the hours so???:dunno: Good luck SlickZ
 
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