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Discussion Starter #1
It's not unique to the 460 loader so I'm putting this here in General.

Why is bale weight limited to 700lbs vs the loader capability of 2300lbs? Is it simply because of the spring in a hay spear that would allow a bale to bounce? So a heavier bale would be ok on a set of forks?
 

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I have no personal experience, but it seems that a good portion of a bale's weight would be positioned quite a ways in front of the loader's pins and therefore reduce the spec'ed lifting capacity of the loader. If that's the case, the same would hold true whether using a spear or forks.
 

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I have no personal experience, but it seems that a good portion of a bale's weight would be positioned quite a ways in front of the loader's pins and therefore reduce the spec'ed lifting capacity of the loader. If that's the case, the same would hold true whether using a spear or forks.
I think you nailed it. The lift capacity of the loader is usually measured at two points, one is the bucket pivot point and the other is roughly the front edge of the bucket, say 18" from the pivot point. A bale may stick out from the spear 6' which puts the CG of the bale 3' from the pivot, plus the inherent bouncing when moving something with that much leverage.

There's also an issue with side pressure when making a turn at any speed with a bale. The combination of weight and leverage can generate a lot of side torque. We use rear forks for moving bales any distance and I can tell you even with a bale on the rear it's a significant issue if you don't slow down before making a turn.

Treefarmer
 

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I think you nailed it. The lift capacity of the loader is usually measured at two points, one is the bucket pivot point and the other is roughly the front edge of the bucket, say 18" from the pivot point. A bale may stick out from the spear 6' which puts the CG of the bale 3' from the pivot, plus the inherent bouncing when moving something with that much leverage.

There's also an issue with side pressure when making a turn at any speed with a bale. The combination of weight and leverage can generate a lot of side torque. We use rear forks for moving bales any distance and I can tell you even with a bale on the rear it's a significant issue if you don't slow down before making a turn.

Treefarmer
My thoughts and experiences exactly.
 

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Yep ,the farther you get from the loader arms the less you can lift. And lift capacity goes down fast as distance from the machine increases. It’s the same with fork lifts and cranes.
 

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It is all about Center of Gravity. My drawing is bad but below you can see tractor with bale speared sitting on the ground. As soon as you lift the bale (bottom drawing) the center of gravity begins to drift along a line between the two center of gravities and equalizes at a point based on the mass of the two items that have now become one. The higher and further from the center of the tractor that point moves the more unstable you are.

This is why rear ballast is so important!! It moves the tractors center of gravity back. Loaded tires do not take weight off the front axle, but it does help lower your CG and shift it to the rear.

Pointed out above in a comment is also is momentum! An object in motion tends to stay in motion until acted upon by an outside force. If you get the bail moving say in a turn the CG of that bail is moving. When you stop the counteracting force is the CG of your tractor. Since the CG of the bail is in motion as the tractor CG works to counteract it, the CG‘s of both the tractor and bale and are shifted to the direction of travel (Momentum). The bigger the mass the more the shift. Now you are moving the CG off the centerline of the tractor since the momentum is sideways. Once that CG moves too far off the centerline you are going over.

By the way same thing on a slope, you are shifting the CG off the centerline at a point you go over. This is wher wheel weights and loaded tires really make a difference.

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Discussion Starter #7
It's not load placement as nothing is stated in the manual about pallet forks weight being limited. What's the difference between 1500lbs on the forks vs the manual saying limit bale weight to 700lbs?
 

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Good question psrumors.

To me is seems that the only difference would be the attachment on the loader - bale spear vs. forks.

Could it be the limitation of the spear's capacity?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Good question psrumors.

To me is seems that the only difference would be the attachment on the loader - bale spear vs. forks.

Could it be the limitation of the spear's capacity?
Most spears I see will hold 3000lbs but the manual doesnt mention the spear, only not to lift bales over 700lbs

I lifted a bale that was 1200lbs before reading that in the manual. Thw tractor handled it just fine
 

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Just spit balling a guess on the spear.

My loader, H160 - the manual says not to handle bales at all. The H165 is recommended for hay bales.

700 pounds would be easy for my loader capacity though.

I think the newer 3R's come with a H320 loader that looks like the older H165.


Whatever the reasoning is - I guess it has to do more with hay than the actual capacity.
 

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I never have understood this, but with a spear I've never had a problem. The right tool for the job usually makes things work better.
 
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