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What is the best way to check the hydraulic pressure? I have a 2016 x738. My understanding is that you warm the tractor up. Run the engine WOT with a guage in the green port. Is that correct?
Yes it is correct
 
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What is the best way to check the hydraulic pressure? I have a 2016 x738. My understanding is that you warm the tractor up. Run the engine WOT with a guage in the green port. Is that correct?
According to Ken's video the tractor doesn't have to be at WOT. That matches with what I've heard before that pressure of a hydraulic system doesn't go up with RPM, just volume.

Rob
 
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Hey all,

I have gone through every thread and I can’t find anything about hydraulic shimming that explains or shows what is being done. A lot of posts saying the did it, or the did this size whatevers, or how much psi. I have no idea where a shim goes, how many are required, anything.

I have a new toy coming and I am planning on getting a fel for it. I am really curious where this shim goes on a x739. Is there one per hydraulic line?

While I’m at it.... lock outs? Why, where, when are they used. Again a lot of posts says installed lockout all good now. Sorry nit helpful to newbies to hydraulics.

Any simple information you can share or point me at?

Thanks
So did you end up buying the CTC fel? Shimming Irv and replacing the trv?

I'm thinking about ordering a CTC loader in the next few weeks and doing the same mods to my x738.
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
So did you end up buying the CTC fel? Shimming Irv and replacing the trv?

I'm thinking about ordering a CTC loader in the next few weeks and doing the same mods to my x738.
So no... is the short answer. I am still planning on this addition. I will not be shimming as my unit has plenty of pressure from the factory according to the dealership testing and sharing notes with CTC. I am also on the fence about the HRV as the folks at CTC say it is just not necessary. I even went to the Tran manufacturer (Tuff Torq) and the engineer said it was never driven by their requirements. He thought it was not necessary.

So I will order the FEL and think about the HRV. I'll probably do it since it seems easy.
 

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Add me to the list of folks who wants to hear how a CTC FEL purchase goes. Sergeant's comments above are definitely a concern (that was nice of you to help with dealing with CTC, Sergeant.)

I'm hoping to hear that it's a nice easy purchase and everything fits well. The CTC loaders certainly look good on paper (and in photos.) One concern I do have is the lack of a ROPS. The JD 45 FEL has ROPS towers built into the loader. Alternatively you could get a JD/Curtis ROPS cab for the old X4/X5/X7 machines. But I don't know if the current X7 Signature Series factory cab is a ROPS cab or not?
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Add me to the list of folks who wants to hear how a CTC FEL purchase goes. Sergeant's comments above are definitely a concern (that was nice of you to help with dealing with CTC, Sergeant.)

I'm hoping to hear that it's a nice easy purchase and everything fits well. The CTC loaders certainly look good on paper (and in photos.) One concern I do have is the lack of a ROPS. The JD 45 FEL has ROPS towers built into the loader. Alternatively you could get a JD/Curtis ROPS cab for the old X4/X5/X7 machines. But I don't know if the current X7 Signature Series factory cab is a ROPS cab or not?
Proof is in the pudding. In my discussions with CTC everything was very straight forward. I asked him specifically about some of the earlier fitment issues. He is well aware of the forums and the comments. He knew the specific models that were impacted and the years of issue. He claimed the issue was the not on his end. He also humbly accepted that issues can come from either party but that he stands behind correcting any that are from his side. Who knows... I'll be ordering soon. I'll share my experience.
 
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Proof is in the pudding. In my discussions with CTC everything was very straight forward. I asked him specifically about some of the earlier fitment issues. He is well aware of the forums and the comments. He knew the specific models that were impacted and the years of issue. He claimed the issue was the not on his end. He also humbly accepted that issues can come from either party but that he stands behind correcting any that are from his side. Who knows... I'll be ordering soon. I'll share my experience.
Thanks. I (and others) will be interested to hear your report after you get your loader delivered and installed.

Back on the THRV.... I really encourage you to go ahead and install the THRV.

Right now what you have in the location where the THRV gets installed, is a Forward-Free-Wheeling Valve. When actuated, the FFWV allows you to push/roll your tractor when it is not running. There is a lever at the rear of the tractor that you push to activate the FFWV, as well as the Reverse Free Wheeling Valve (RFWV). These two valves merely break the hydrostatic lock in the transmission, allowing you to roll the tractor.

The FFWV and the RFWV do not protect the transmission from spikes in hydrostatic pressure while the tractor is in operation. As designed, the expectation is that your wheels will spin and relieve any pressure spikes. Ordinarily, that's a reasonable solution.

But when you add a loader, you also have to add a lot of rear ballast. With the combined weight of the loader, the payload in the bucket, and all the ballast at the rear of the machine, it becomes much more difficult for the tires to break traction. This, combined with normal loader operations such as driving into a pile of material, can cause large spikes in pressure in the transmission.

That is why you should install the Transaxle Hydrostatic Release Valve (THRV). The THRV will relieve any pressure spikes and save the transmission.

It is not difficult or expensive to do, and potentially can save you a very expensive transmission repair. You simply remove the FFWV and install the THRV in its place. Also, because the THRV is taller than the FFWV, a new lever arm needs to be swapped that fits the THRV. (The THRV will then serve double-duty as a FFWV as well.)

While you are in there swapping the THRV, the Implement Relief Valve (IRV) is conveniently situated right between the Forward- and Reverse Free Wheeling Valves. This would be a good time to shim it if that is in your plans.

You can do all of this while you are waiting for the FEL to arrive. So you'll be ready to go, and all you'll need to do is mount it.:bigthumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Thanks. I (and others) will be interested to hear your report after you get your loader delivered and installed.

Back on the THRV.... I really encourage you to go ahead and install the THRV.

Right now what you have in the location where the THRV gets installed, is a Forward-Free-Wheeling Valve. When actuated, the FFWV allows you to push/roll your tractor when it is not running. There is a lever at the rear of the tractor that you push to activate the FFWV, as well as the Reverse Free Wheeling Valve (RFWV). These two valves merely break the hydrostatic lock in the transmission, allowing you to roll the tractor.

The FFWV and the RFWV do not protect the transmission from spikes in hydrostatic pressure while the tractor is in operation. As designed, the expectation is that your wheels will spin and relieve any pressure spikes. Ordinarily, that's a reasonable solution.

But when you add a loader, you also have to add a lot of rear ballast. With the combined weight of the loader, the payload in the bucket, and all the ballast at the rear of the machine, it becomes much more difficult for the tires to break traction. This, combined with normal loader operations such as driving into a pile of material, can cause large spikes in pressure in the transmission.

That is why you should install the Transaxle Hydrostatic Release Valve (THRV). The THRV will relieve any pressure spikes and save the transmission.

It is not difficult or expensive to do, and potentially can save you a very expensive transmission repair. You simply remove the FFWV and install the THRV in its place. Also, because the THRV is taller than the FFWV, a new lever arm needs to be swapped that fits the THRV. (The THRV will then serve double-duty as a FFWV as well.)

While you are in there swapping the THRV, the Implement Relief Valve (IRV) is conveniently situated right between the Forward- and Reverse Free Wheeling Valves. This would be a good time to shim it if that is in your plans.

You can do all of this while you are waiting for the FEL to arrive. So you'll be ready to go, and all you'll need to do is mount it.:bigthumb:
THANK YOU! My gut was saying it was a worthwhile project despite the feedback I had received. I just didn't know why other than accepting all those that knew better advice. You put it into English that I can understand. I'll get one ordered and installed!
 
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Thanks. I (and others) will be interested to hear your report after you get your loader delivered and installed.

Back on the THRV.... I really encourage you to go ahead and install the THRV.

Right now what you have in the location where the THRV gets installed, is a Forward-Free-Wheeling Valve. When actuated, the FFWV allows you to push/roll your tractor when it is not running. There is a lever at the rear of the tractor that you push to activate the FFWV, as well as the Reverse Free Wheeling Valve (RFWV). These two valves merely break the hydrostatic lock in the transmission, allowing you to roll the tractor.

The FFWV and the RFWV do not protect the transmission from spikes in hydrostatic pressure while the tractor is in operation. As designed, the expectation is that your wheels will spin and relieve any pressure spikes. Ordinarily, that's a reasonable solution.

But when you add a loader, you also have to add a lot of rear ballast. With the combined weight of the loader, the payload in the bucket, and all the ballast at the rear of the machine, it becomes much more difficult for the tires to break traction. This, combined with normal loader operations such as driving into a pile of material, can cause large spikes in pressure in the transmission.

That is why you should install the Transaxle Hydrostatic Release Valve (THRV). The THRV will relieve any pressure spikes and save the transmission.

It is not difficult or expensive to do, and potentially can save you a very expensive transmission repair. You simply remove the FFWV and install the THRV in its place. Also, because the THRV is taller than the FFWV, a new lever arm needs to be swapped that fits the THRV. (The THRV will then serve double-duty as a FFWV as well.)

While you are in there swapping the THRV, the Implement Relief Valve (IRV) is conveniently situated right between the Forward- and Reverse Free Wheeling Valves. This would be a good time to shim it if that is in your plans.

You can do all of this while you are waiting for the FEL to arrive. So you'll be ready to go, and all you'll need to do is mount it.:bigthumb:
I also agree with this statement.

I checked my hydraulic pressure today on my x738. It maxed out 1000 psi on the guage. What I read that the goal you want for a loader is 1250 psi. So I figured since I will be doing the THRV I should add one shim to raise the pressure to 1250 psi. I plan on doing this within a month before mowing season starts.
 

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THANK YOU! My gut was saying it was a worthwhile project despite the feedback I had received. I just didn't know why other than accepting all those that knew better advice. You put it into English that I can understand. I'll get one ordered and installed!

Happy to help! :cheers:

And don’t feel badly about not fully understanding. I have spoken with folks at the dealerships who couldn’t explain or didn’t understand the reason for the FFWV and THRV swap, or don’t understand that the THRV and IRV are different and one protects the transmission while the other limits pressure in the implement circuit. So if you were getting input from your dealer my experience is they often don’t know what they’re talking about or aren‘t able to clearly explain it.

EDIT: And guys, please forgive the typo in my earlier post, but THRV = Transaxle Hydrostatic Relief Valve (not "Release" Valve).
 

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Bumping an old thread but it appears according to this you need to check the pressure on the green port and none of the rest? Is that correct? Going to shim next weekend and trying to get my information correct before I do.
 

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Bumping an old thread but it appears according to this you need to check the pressure on the green port and none of the rest? Is that correct? Going to shim next weekend and trying to get my information correct before I do.
That's a good question, to narrow down.
@UrbanTractor I would think, the system as a whole, would flow at the same rate of pressure. Yes?, or please correct me if I assume incorrectly.

This is another great topic. LOTS of very useful feedback and information. (y)
 
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Urban Tractor was 'last seen' 11 months ago.

The 4 quick connect ports on the side of the mower are pairs.
One pair is associated with each lever.
When one half of a pair is pressurized, the other is the return flow from the other side of a double acting cylinder (or from whatever the circuit is connected to).
When the lever is moved in the opposite direction, the function of the 2 ports will be reversed.

If the other lever is activated, the other pair of ports will behave similarly.

Moving a lever only put pressure to one port at a time. It's mate becomes the return port.


The issue with the 'shut-off' valve:

The lever which raises and lowers the deck operates a valve that sends oil to a hydraulic cylinder. As the (deck lift) cylinder extends/retracts it moves the linkage that controls the deck height. The height of cut setting limits the travel of the linkage -- in such a way the the lift cylinder can continue to travel, without further lowering of the deck.

The hydraulic lines that connect this cylinder are also connected one of the pairs of quick-connect ports.
Oil will flow to the easiest path. When the deck has been removed, the lift cylinder is still on the tractor, and still able to extend/retract. When using the hydraulic system to operate an attachment connected to the ports, it becomes necessary for the deck lift cylinder to travel it's full length before enough pressure can be developed to operate the attachment.

(another way to say this is that the quick connects are 'Teed' into the lines to the deck lift cylinder)

Installation of the cut-off valve on the back of the block with the quick attach fittings prevents flow from going to the deck lift cylinder. This makes it so the other attachment can be operated without the delay from operating the deck cylinder.
The other set of ports does not have this delay issue.

The other lever on the tractor operates the 2nd pair of ports only -- so there is no need for that pair to have the shut-off.

Presumably the instructions to use the green port are to match up with the which lever and which direction instructions.
The 'green port' is connected to the bottom lever. The one that does NOT raise the deck, so the issue of the deck cylinder needing to travel does not need to be discussed.

With the tractor off, stand beside it and operated the levers while watching the linkage at the rear of the valve.
It will be easy to see which lever runs which pair of ports.


Example:
A front blade connects the raise/lower to the bottom lever and the angle cylinder (if purchased) gets connected to the top lever.
Top lever is the one connected to the deck cylinder.
With no shut-off valve, or if the shut-off doesn't get closed, moving the lever to angle blade will seem to have a delay before the blade moves -- will the deck lift cylinder travels. Close shut-off valve and delay is gone.
There will be no delay on the blade raise/lower.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
I tested the pressure on all four ports before and after shimming. They all tested the same before and after.
 

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@x738 Appreciate the long detailed explanation. Makes sense.

Once I get my shimming done and the THRV swapped I want to order the 1/4 turn lockout as I am sick of the one with so many turns.
 

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"I tested the pressure on all four ports before and after shimming. They all tested the same before and after." I'm not familiar with the hydraulics on the X739, but 3xx's have 2 relief valves: a system pressure relief valve and an implement pressure relief valve.

Is it possible you shimmed the wrong relief valve? Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #59
I’m sorry I didn’t mean they shimming didn’t work. It worked as planned. It affects every port equally it appeared.
 
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I wanted to know if the 3ph benefit the same increase in pressure, for say, pulling fence posts.
I have a 4" x 12ft Galvanized Satellite Pole, I'm not sure if I set in concrete, that needs pulled.
 
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