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Based on what you've read in this thread, what size pump would you get if you invest in a kit?

  • Don't go putting any of that stuff on my tractor, Clark. Ya know that metal plate in my head...

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I voted for the 9 GPM pump (Apparently the first and only vote so far)

So this is a bump for the POLL:cool:
 

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I voted for the 9 GPM pump (Apparently the first and only vote so far)

So this is a bump for the POLL:cool:
As do i! Im saving my pennies. My luck ill buy the 9 and the 10 will come out a week later 😆
 
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Yes - I've been using this website for all of my calculations.


You're right on at 3 hp between 7.25 and 9.5 GPMs. 7.25 takes 10.15 and 9.5 takes 13.3 at 2000 psi.

These figures assume that you're at a constant 2000 psi. You don't hit to that until your pressure release valves kick in, so when you're running and not actively using hydraulics, you're only pushing maybe 500 psi...or probably less. Using the same calculator, you would need less than .75 hp

I agree it will likely burn more fuel, but I doubt anyone would notice given how fuel efficient this engine is to start with, but as they say, "There's no such thing as a free lunch" . Also, regarding using an implement like a backhoe, you're so much more efficient, you would end up saving fuel in the long run.
Yeah Ken thats pretty much what I figured on to.
The added benefit would be running a lower engine rpm and still having more Implement speed and control.
 

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Great reading here. I'm wondering though, if the relief valve is what actually governs the maximum pressure, what flow rate will it allow? Meaning, is there some point that increasing the pump capacity will exceed the ability of the relief valve to keep pressure low enough to not blow seals?

This says 1025R total flow is 6.3gpm
It also says the 2025 total flow is 7gpm

Why not go with a 3025, total flow is 9.3gpm

3120 is 13.9gpm total flow

All the parts diagrams and pictures of the pumps I see online, they all look to be interchangeable except for the thickness, just would need two longer bolts on the top bolts to mount it.

 

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Discussion Starter · #185 ·
Great reading here. I'm wondering though, if the relief valve is what actually governs the maximum pressure, what flow rate will it allow? Meaning, is there some point that increasing the pump capacity will exceed the ability of the relief valve to keep pressure low enough to not blow seals?

This says 1025R total flow is 6.3gpm
It also says the 2025 total flow is 7gpm

Why not go with a 3025, total flow is 9.3gpm

3120 is 13.9gpm total flow

All the parts diagrams and pictures of the pumps I see online, they all look to be interchangeable except for the thickness, just would need two longer bolts on the top bolts to mount it.

Love this question...made me think about a few things that I hadn't thought about before. This wasn't a concern I had, but since you asked the question and made me think about it, I now feel good about it not being a concern.

And you are correct! The pressure relief valve does govern the maximum pressure, but pumps don't create pressure in and of themselves...they need a restriction for that to occur. The hydraulic system on the 1025R, and most tractors for that matter, are what is called open center. This means that the flow is always circulating through the system and if the valves are at "center", the flow just passes through without restriction. When the valve is actuated, the spool moves so that the flow is redirected to do work - most often to operate a cylinder. The resistance of the piston in the cylinder creates pressure and when that pressure surpasses the pressure relief setting by ~10 PSI, the pressure relief valve opens to allow flow to escape back to tank and thus the pressure is regulated to within 10 PSI of the pressure relief setting.

To the second part of your question, technically the answer is yes, but you would have to have so much flow that you overwhelm both the hydraulic tubing and the exits on the pressure relief valve which may be larger. Let's consider an example with no pressure relief valves for simplicity. The smallest hydraulic lines on the 1 series are 3/8. You can use the following chart to see that with 3/8 size tubing, at 100 GPM the system would only create 1480 psi from the pump volume alone, which isn't even enough to activate the pressure relief valves at the factory setting. At 10 GPM, it's 15 PSI...so this really isn't a concern with the flows were talking about.

But, just as a thought experiment, to blow a seal, you're probably talking about running above 3500 PSI for an extended period of time or a spike in pressure somewhere in the neighborhood of 4x working pressure. The pump is rated at 240 bar (3480 psi) and the best I can tell the tubing and hoses are rated for about the same. With my kit, everything is rated at or above 3500 PSI working pressure, but there are a few tubes on the 1 series that I don't know the wall thickness or material which makes a difference. Stainless is higher than carbon steel, so that's why I can't confirm, but my guess is in the neighborhood of 3500 psi. And again, that is working pressure, burst pressure is typically 4 times the working pressure, so in the neighborhood of 14000 psi. This can also vary some by manufacturer, but it's close for all I've come across.


As for the interchangeability of the pumps, this was a path that I went down, but it doesn't work out even though they look similar. Using the pump you references as an example:


Here are the issues with that particular pump
  1. The pressure and tank sides are reversed
  2. The output shaft, while the same pattern, is 5.5mm longer than the stock 1025R pump.
  3. The back plate interferes with bolts on the 1 series mounting location.
It's possible to overcome these issues, but not with the reliability that you want on a tractor.

I'm still working towards an even larger pump, but you have to consider what the implements can handle. I think the 9.5 GPM I have now is getting close to the max anyone would want on a tractor this size, but there are always a few who will have an application that requires a little more. Much above 9.5, you'll have to consider changing out quick connects since the 1/4 loader quick connects are only rated for 3 GPM. The 1/2 for he power beyond is rated for 12. Those are ratings, so they can definitely do more, but there will be a limit.

I was thinking about offering a flat face quick connect replacement for the factory ag quick connects, but they are a pain to change. I'm not sure many people would want to go through the trouble unless they had an application that needed 8+ GPMs...but somebody change my mind. I would estimate it would take someone at least an hour to change those couplers based on how they are situated, but it could easily be double because it's so tight in there.
 

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I had narrowed my results down to the 3005, essentially the same output of the 1025 in every respect except greater flow rate. But then looking, it seems to have two pumps, I just haven't figured out exactly what each pump does or which is equivalent to the power steering/hydraulic pump.


 

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1026R. Grand Cherokee, Sante Fe Sport
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Installation...

 

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As the other thread was closed...

Does the hydrosplus kit increase the lift capacity?

To answer you question Lhunter...It allows multiple functions at once...along with speed (As mentioned)at low RPM.
 
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Very interested in a kit been following awesome work.
Hey everyone -

I've been getting a few questions consistently, so I made a quick video to answer. I'm eager answer all of the questions, but these are the ones I get the most. There is just not enough time in the day to get to it all yet, but I hope to be able to have a fully functional website and more videos that provide additional detail and answer questions very soon. Please keep the questions coming and I promise to get to them as quickly as I can.

I also had a chance to do some real world digging, so I added a few clips to then end that shows just how well it works. The digging footage is with the new 2025R equivalent pump that I'm offering that saves you a few hundred dollars over the OEM 2025R pump from John Deere. With it, I've finally realized the goal of providing a significant increase in performance in an easy to install kit for less than $1,000. That is cheaper than almost any implement you can buy new and it's the only system available that increases hydraulic performance, which especially impacts the two most expensive implements - the loader and backhoe.

Let me know if this video sparks any additional questions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #191 ·
Hey all -

I've been quiet for a bit trying to catch up on a few things. I put my tractor back to completely stock and did a flow test today. Total flow for the stock pump is 7 GPM and the video below shows the implements at various RPMs, topping out at 3.5 GPMs. I'm planning on showing flow results for the various configurations all in one video, but I thought I would post this as a baseline, especially since it differs from what is reported on tractordata.com

 

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Nice, I was sold when you posted the vid of the BH doing 3 functions at once...Even running the loader plowing snow and being able to dump as I raise the loader arm is going to be great.
 

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I'm not as concerned with speed increases. Will this change increase the FEL lift capacity?
 

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I'm not as concerned with speed increases. Will this change increase the FEL lift capacity?
The pump only changes oil flow. There are other components in the system that affect lift capacity. If someone had the same length cylinder with a larger bore for the FEL, you could really lift more but it would be slow.

You can change the force by changing the area or the pressure.
783742


Here is a video about changing the relief valve setting.

 
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The pump only changes oil flow. There are other components in the system that affect lift capacity. If someone had the same length cylinder with a larger bore for the FEL, you could really lift more but it would be slow.

You can change the force by changing the area or the pressure.
View attachment 783742

Here is a video about changing the relief valve setting.

Ok. So it changes flow volume, but not pressure. I was thinking this would make the Pressure bigger, acting on the existing FEL cylinders, thus increasing the Force available for lifting.
 

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Ok. So it changes flow volume, but not pressure? I was thinking this would make the Pressure bigger, acting on the existing FEL cylinders, thus increasing the Force available for lifting.
No change to capacity unless you adjust relief valve. You can buy a gauge from kenny and see what you are working with. My 1025 came from the factory at 1900 PSI. I think that's at the lower limit of factory spec but I'm not sure. Don't have a tech manual.
Hydraulic Pressure Test Gauge - BoltOnHooks LLC
 
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Ok. So it changes flow volume, but not pressure? I was thinking this would make the Pressure bigger, acting on the existing FEL cylinders, thus increasing the Force available for lifting.
If you have wanted multiple functions at once on BH and FEL it does that. Received my kit with the 9.5 GPM pump this morning.

and a vid (At your own risk )from K on increased pressure...

The second vid I linked to is the same thing but the dude cracks me up...Refers to Tim as a saint...but Tim isn't Catholic so we have to rule that out.. LOL

For using a gauge refer to Kensboltonhooks vid



 

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Discussion Starter · #198 ·
In the spirt of the recent posts on pressure, I did an additional test today to confirm an answer that I have been discussing with a few people who have asked about the backhoe digging force. The question is, "Where do you adjust the backhoe pressure". I haven't personally done that yet because I haven't felt the need, but if you want to increase your digging force, you will need to adjust the loader SCV on the tractor since it will be the "weakest link" in the implement circuit if set below the backhoe pressures.

 

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Got about 80% (90%)? finished with Kevin's HydroPlus kit (The second Pfizer shot clouded my brain, instead of being sleepy I had insomnia last night ). Hope to finish tomorrow after a round of golf.

The Vids were all spot on for install...If there was confusion on anything it was on me. That was another thing that added time , watching vids uses up time....One of those installs that if you did it a second time it would take half the time. I used power tools but I still took 3 hours. I think it will be another 2 hours to finish and put everything back together. The seat especially is a PITA.

Thanks for the help K... (y)

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Finished the install. The Kit looks like it came from the factory. (y)

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