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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all.

Ive got an odd situation, thats been a thorn in my side for about 3 years now.
Ill try to keep it short.
When we moved into our current home, we never thought to check availability of internet. Its within a few miles of a large city, across the street from a school, and certainly not all alone in the middle of nowhere.
Trouble is, nobody runs down our road. They run North of us and South of us, but without a major investment, were are out of luck for what Id call normal internet and TV.
Due to the landscape, wooded, we are also limited on what exactly we can do with other options. From that side of the woods, we can use either DirecTV or Dish, which gives us options. Internet is available point to point (direct wireless connection) from that side too.
Now, to the point. Due to all of this, I want to run a trench from the house to the edge of the woods, about 125', maybe a bit more. My plan is to trench about 18" or so down, which is all thats required for anything in conduit, and run the CAT 5 cable and also run an RG6 cable as well.
The house is simple. Its a standard conduit exit from a structure, and into the ground.
What I cant quite make up my mind about is how to terminate the other end.
Ive thought about using a weather head like youd see on a service entrance mast for the electrical service, but cant think of too many other options.
It will need to stand by itself out there. There is a 6x6 post, and I suppose I might be able to get close enough to it to mount a box directly on it, but I certainly dont want to disturb that posts concrete base at all, and there are trees all around that Ill be going around to get there in the first place from the house. It was a pain to set where it is, but thats where it needed to be.
Anyway, anyone ever done something like this before?

By the way, the reason I dont just direct bury a wire is due to a trail or two that passes over where these will run. Running a tractor over them in damp conditions isnt really good for them. Burying them in conduit fixes that problem.
 

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When I ran a new electrical line to my pool for the filter I dug the trench and at the end of the trench I dug down another 2', dropped a 4"x4" into that hole and poured cement around it. Then I ran the conduit right up to teh post and mounted the electrical box on the post. I'd think you could do the same sort of thing with a 6'x6" and mount a larger interconnect box for your coax (not sure why you're running Cat 5 cable but...).

I would ask how your service provider's wiring is run though. Are their lines buried? Or are they run on poles? They may want you to run direct to their interconnect box or to the base of the pole.
 

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My first thought was a pedestal like in RV camp grounds, but a water meter box would work best. everything is underground but the box top. I've seen them used for cable and electricity before. And water of course.
You could put some large PVC pipe around the box and fill with concrete or sand and cap them off to keep any ROW equipment from contacting them. Also a few warning, underground cable, markers would be good too.
 

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Since everything you are doing is considered low voltage, you have more options but id advise using NEC as a guideline anyway. If you are going to go to the trouble to trench this and tube it, double your cabling to plan for the future or migrate to a secondary source should unforseen damage occur to one of the lines and when working with RG6, soft sweeps are your friend.
 

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I have 1 - 1/4" conduit run at least 150' from the utility pole near the end of my property to my house. I have a CAT 5 cable pulled through the conduit along with a pulling rope. The ends of the conduit are simply sealed with conduit sealing putty. The wire on the pole is simply stapled to the pole.

https://www.amazon.com/Rectorseal-81880-1-Pound-Duct-Compound/dp/B008A3UG94/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1529758064&sr=8-2&keywords=duct+seal+putty&dpID=413tYZSjIFL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

Concerning what type of pole to use is going to depend on how high you have to mount the Dish. You can buy utility poles for a pretty fair price so maybe a utility pole.
In my experience, the Dish and Direct TV technicians will not mount the dish in a location that they cannot get to it while standing on a ladder so you should probably consider this also.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Use a tree.

A Weatherhead or outdoor outlet are your only options. Use a tree, add a new post.... code here is it must be 18” above ground I think.
Id post a picture of the tree they used previously, that snapped off in a storm, but I wont.
Post was set by me last Fall.

When I ran a new electrical line to my pool for the filter I dug the trench and at the end of the trench I dug down another 2', dropped a 4"x4" into that hole and poured cement around it. Then I ran the conduit right up to teh post and mounted the electrical box on the post. I'd think you could do the same sort of thing with a 6'x6" and mount a larger interconnect box for your coax (not sure why you're running Cat 5 cable but...).

I would ask how your service provider's wiring is run though. Are their lines buried? Or are they run on poles? They may want you to run direct to their interconnect box or to the base of the pole.
Post is already there, and in use. CAT5 is for internet. Thats whats run for direct wireless from the receiver to the house.
There is no service provider here except gas and electric. No cable or internet service runs here, thats why Im having to do this.

My first thought was a pedestal like in RV camp grounds, but a water meter box would work best. everything is underground but the box top. I've seen them used for cable and electricity before. And water of course.
You could put some large PVC pipe around the box and fill with concrete or sand and cap them off to keep any ROW equipment from contacting them. Also a few warning, underground cable, markers would be good too.
Thanks for the ideas! Ill look into the markers for sure. Of course Ill know where it is, but a future owner might want to know too.

Since everything you are doing is considered low voltage, you have more options but id advise using NEC as a guideline anyway. If you are going to go to the trouble to trench this and tube it, double your cabling to plan for the future or migrate to a secondary source should unforseen damage occur to one of the lines and when working with RG6, soft sweeps are your friend.
Ill have to look again, but when I trenched at my old house to run higher amperage service to the garage, wire in conduit was 18" minimum depth. Im going to use the same for this run.
Good idea on the extra wires, not sure its necessary, as Ill be able to pull new wire if needed, but its a good idea while Im in there, and not much extra cost.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I have 1 - 1/4" conduit run at least 150' from the utility pole near the end of my property to my house. I have a CAT 5 cable pulled through the conduit along with a pulling rope. The ends of the conduit are simply sealed with conduit sealing putty. The wire on the pole is simply stapled to the pole.

Concerning what type of pole to use is going to depend on how high you have to mount the Dish. You can buy utility poles for a pretty fair price so maybe a utility pole.
In my experience, the Dish and Direct TV technicians will not mount the dish in a location that they cannot get to it while standing on a ladder so you should probably consider this also.
I know about their shenanigans. Luckily, the Dish network people are the same ones that provide the direct wireless internet, and are more than happy to use my post.
Oddly enough, they originally mounted their internet receiver to a dead Ash tree, that subsequently fell over during a storm, so I put a 3" diameter pipe in the ground, thinking they could use that. Once set, it was WAY too wobbly at the top for me, so I pulled it and set the 6x6 post. Its been fine since October.

Mostly Im doing this because right now we are stuck with DirecTV only, and their pricing stinks (thats a story for another thread). Dish isnt much better for most people, but they do at least have a 2 year price guarantee, which Directv didnt. And their service is less costly too. And (thats a lot of ands) since Directv "upgraded" their menu system and guide, we can no longer see the channel numbers in the guide our one large tube TV and their solution is for us to upgrade that TV to a flat screen.
I am also doing it because currently the internet CAT5 cable is "buried" 1" below the surface. Not enough with traffic over it. I have had some odd service issues, and while they have checked a lot of things, I personally think that the shallow depth and heavy traffic over it may be part of the problem.
I also need to regrade the ground on that side of the house, and working around that cable will be a nightmare.

Thanks for all the comments and help so far guys!
 

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By all means run the wires in conduit as you're planning to do. I'd use weatherhoods with a drip loop on the exposed wires.

When our house was built (1999) phone and cable were allowed to be direct buried, and supposedly it was a whopping 4" beneath the surface. I've nailed those lines a few times with the tractor and rear blade; but since I called 811, the repairs were on the utility companies' dime.

The photo shows the new lines (yet to be buried by utility companies) from when I nailed them with the rear blade when relocating our sidewalk. You can see an old line running across the surface. Since I was doing some other work in the vicinity I also put in a couple of 1" conduits for phone and CATV that can be grafted onto should the current shallow buried lines puke again. You can see the stub-ups to the left of the main electrical conduit.

 

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By all means run the wires in conduit as you're planning to do. I'd use weatherhoods with a drip loop on the exposed wires.

When our house was built (1999) phone and cable were allowed to be direct buried, and supposedly it was a whopping 4" beneath the surface. I've nailed those lines a few times with the tractor and rear blade; but since I called 811, the repairs were on the utility companies' dime.

The photo shows the new lines (yet to be buried by utility companies) from when I nailed them with the rear blade when relocating our sidewalk. You can see an old line running across the surface. Since I was doing some other work in the vicinity I also put in a couple of 1" conduits for phone and CATV that can be grafted onto should the current shallow buried lines puke again. You can see the stub-ups to the left of the main electrical conduit.
Thanks, the stub outs are a great idea!

I do need to find out if it would be better to run two separate conduits, one for the CAT5/CAT6 and one for the RG6.
They are both shielded so I would think it wouldnt matter, but Ill ask the guys that provide internet what they think would be best before I finish it up.

Ill say too that this will be the most use my backhoe will see since Ive had it, not that Ive done a lot, but it should be a great familiarizing experience.
 

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I do need to find out if it would be better to run two separate conduits, one for the CAT5/CAT6 and one for the RG6. They are both shielded so I would think it wouldn't matter, but Ill ask the guys that provide internet what they think would be best before I finish it up.
Low voltage wires don't need to be separated, so sharing a single conduit is fine. If you want to run electricity or a ham radio antenna someday, those wires should have a separate conduit. Given the cost and work involved in this project, I would definitely add extra cables and a pull cord, as others have mentioned. Cable is relatively cheap in 500' or 1000' boxes.
 

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Thanks, the stub outs are a great idea!

I do need to find out if it would be better to run two separate conduits, one for the CAT5/CAT6 and one for the RG6.
They are both shielded so I would think it wouldnt matter, but Ill ask the guys that provide internet what they think would be best before I finish it up.

Ill say too that this will be the most use my backhoe will see since Ive had it, not that Ive done a lot, but it should be a great familiarizing experience.
If one or both are shielded it'll help reduce cross-talk if the drain wires are terminated to ground at one end only. If you run separate conduits a few inches apart (I'd shoot for 6" min) you should be able to eliminate it. If you're using a 12" bucket it'll be a piece of cake. Plastic conduit is cheap and the trench will already be open. Make it a one time deal. It'd be different if it was out in the open, like in your basement for example.
Be careful pulling the Cat in. Nice and smooth...no jerking/yanking. It's not forgiving to stress. Discard the first 2-3 feet of the pulling end. It's cheap too.
 

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kylew -

Earlier this spring we buried 1-1/2" conduit and pulled 130 ft of 2 ought Al line to wire in our new garage. We dug the trench, installed the conduit, sucked a pull line through on a Wal-Mart bag using a shop vac, laid out the wire to reduce the residual coil bend, then pulled from the 6"x6" with the fire breaker box behind the home to the garage.

After reading all the posts, I'm unclear whether pulling a new line parallel to an existing one is even feasible; I agree with using soft sweeps; I would gather up a few feet at either end, zip tie the bunch, and contain it within a sealed box until it is ready to tie in.

We're out in the sticks, too. Our internet comes through the old copper land line above ground line. The two pair copper was miswired at the tower up the road a bit. Once this was sorted we have a fairly consistent 6 Mbps signal.

Please let the community know what you decide once you execute your plan.

Good luck,

Brian





If one or both are shielded it'll help reduce cross-talk if the drain wires are terminated to ground at one end only. If you run separate conduits a few inches apart (I'd shoot for 6" min) you should be able to eliminate it. If you're using a 12" bucket it'll be a piece of cake. Plastic conduit is cheap and the trench will already be open. Make it a one time deal. It'd be different if it was out in the open, like in your basement for example.
Be careful pulling the Cat in. Nice and smooth...no jerking/yanking. It's not forgiving to stress. Discard the first 2-3 feet of the pulling end. It's cheap too.
 

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As others have said definitely drop a second piece of conduit in the ground for future expansion should you want to run higher voltage. I would also oversize both conduits to ensure you have enough space when pulling the cable through, I would leave a pull line in both of them should you need to do another run. Cable is fairly cheap, right from the get go I'd double the wiring and run (2) CAT6 insulated and (2) RG6 right from the get go.

I've bought bulk from fivefold before when running Cat5 lines in my parents old house back in 07. Monoprice has decent prices but firefold has a great selection and good CS.

https://www.firefold.com/cables/bulk-cable
 

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Having pulled a lot of wire over a 45+ year period pulling in a pull rope or string with other wire and expecting to use it later can be risky! One thing when you pull wire it normally twists some as it goes in the pipe. So does the pull string or rope and it twists with the wire. So when you use it to pull later it can rub on other wires in the pipe and cut thru there insulation plus after your in the pipe it can get stuck and not be able to pull it back out being twisted with the other wires in the pipe. Pipe is cheap my ditches were 4+ feet deep I put extra pipes everywhere for futures. Our ground freezes solid in the winter so I have a extra empty water pipe from my well to my home just in case there is a problem in the winter. Track hoes are expensive to rent to dig up pipes under my fence lines and lawn stuff!
 

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Having pulled a lot of wire over a 45+ year period pulling in a pull rope or string with other wire and expecting to use it later can be risky! One thing when you pull wire it normally twists some as it goes in the pipe. So does the pull string or rope and it twists with the wire. So when you use it to pull later it can rub on other wires in the pipe and cut thru there insulation plus after your in the pipe it can get stuck and not be able to pull it back out being twisted with the other wires in the pipe. Pipe is cheap my ditches were 4+ feet deep I put extra pipes everywhere for futures. Our ground freezes solid in the winter so I have a extra empty water pipe from my well to my home just in case there is a problem in the winter. Track hoes are expensive to rent to dig up pipes under my fence lines and lawn stuff!

You are spot on about the pull string getting tangled up with the conductors being pulled in. We often use MaxCell in the Cell tower industry to have future fiber pulls in a conduit. It's really awesome stuff. Not cheap, but like you pointed out, digging ground is not cheap either. I would run an empty conduit in lue of the MaxCell product.

Maxed Out ? MaxCell.
 

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My parents had a similar challenge to be able to get decent Internet. Here's how we terminated the end with the line-of-site antenna.
19397153_10154370272897030_6876505638238781871_n.jpg
Just for fun, here's the complete path. The ISP antenna is at the bottom. The first 200 feet is underground to the big shed, which holds the ISP's router. Then the cable runs through that building and I used directional Ubiquiti antennas to 'beam' it to the house.
19399776_10154370290997030_4073393889246934139_n.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #18
My parents had a similar challenge to be able to get decent Internet. Here's how we terminated the end with the line-of-site antenna.
View attachment 636358
Just for fun, here's the complete path. The ISP antenna is at the bottom. The first 200 feet is underground to the big shed, which holds the ISP's router. Then the cable runs through that building and I used directional Ubiquiti antennas to 'beam' it to the house.
View attachment 636360
Looks just like what I have for internet.

That setup with the conduit/junction box is what Ive come up with as the best solution so far.
I can run two of those, one for the CAT6 and one for the RG6. That way I can leave enough coiled inside the box for future expansion.

It looks like I can get 500' rolls for a decent price, which allows 2 runs of each wire.
Doing that, I can run two conduits, one for each type, and smaller, so it might not end up being as much $$$.
Always the skin flint I guess...lol!

How big is that post? Ive got a 6x6 with about 8 feet, maybe 10 (youd think I could remember since I carried it out there on my shoulder.) sticking out of the ground. I do know its set in concrete, about 4' deep. In my case, I cant go too tall or I run into the canopy of the trees that hang over the edge of the field. I cut them back every year, but they grow back pretty fast.
 
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