[JROC]

It seems like everytime I have an implement that's both PTO driven and 3PH mounted on my 5075E that it won't work without modding the shaft running between the PTO's.

In the words of the late ecstasy drug lord Johnny Tapia, "Carlos, this is a stupid f*#$ing problem to have, but it is a problem nonetheless."

Basically this is really stupid. It seems like a new tractor issue. I have never seen this be a problem for a 30+ year old tractor of any brand. First I don't really like buying a new implement only to have to take the time to cut on and modify a PTO shaft. (And I'm a Tool Maker by trade) Secondly it becomes a big issue when you go to barrow someone else's implement and it won't fit your tractor because of this. They're generally like, "my tractor has zero issues fitting this tool, and I don't want to cut on it to make it fit on your tractor." And I honestly don't blame them. Can cutting on an implements PTO shaft void a warranty?

This is something that should be standardized. There's standard 3PH diamensions so that implements can go behind all tractors with any given catagory of 3PH. There should also be a generally length diamension that runs between the center of the ball links of a 3PH and the end of the PTO shaft on the tractor.

Sorry for the rant, but this is an issue I've run imto more than once when trying to barrow someone else's implement and having to unhook because of it. This is my biggest issue with my JD.

 

[ddinham]

I have a 6 year old Befco 110 inch 3pt RFM, a 30 year old Rhino 10ft 3pt brush hog and an 80 year old JD #5 sickle mower. Only the sickle mower required any modification and I blame that on the fact that it was never designed for tractors with a 3pt hitch. So that one don't count.

Dave

 

[Old Machinist]

Implement makers have had to make allowance for the use of quick hitches and telescoping lift links.

Driveshafts aren't that difficult to cut.

Folks with a quick hitch would be more frustrated if they had to buy a longer shaft than you are about having to cut one.

The last time I went to borrow an implement that didn't fit my machine was my signal I needed to buy my own. I have my own tiller now and have been using it on a regular basis to loosen areas that need smoothing out.

 

[MTB98]

A quick hitch or Pats EZ Hitch will move your implement back a few inches, maybe giving you the room you need. If the shaft is too short adding a stub extender or an overrun clutch can make up the difference sometimes.
Cutting a shaft isn’t a big deal, takes like 15 minutes and that’s if you need to get your tools out and measure twice, cut once. I wouldn’t cut someone else’s PTO shaft but how many times would that even need to happen?
Cutting a shaft wouldn’t void the warranty. Not cutting the shaft will break your tractor and that won’t be covered by warranty if you didn’t cut the shaft correctly.

 

[GB540]

I wouldn’t cut someone else’s PTO shaft but how many times would that even need to happen?

Blow up the main gearbox on someone else's implement (or have said implement blow out the back of your tractor) and it only needs to happen once.... (Still wouldn't cut someone else's, if it won't work that's one's cue to go another route.)

Agreed this should have been standardized literally 100 years ago.

 

[Old Machinist]

The two shaft driven implements I have that I bought new have instructions for cutting the shaft in the owners manual. They warn that NOT verifying correct shaft length will void the warranty.

 

[MTB98]

Blow up the main gearbox on someone else's implement (or have said implement blow out the back of your tractor) and it only needs to happen once.... (Still wouldn't cut someone else's, if it won't work that's one's cue to go another route.)

Agreed this should have been standardized literally 100 years ago.

Agreed that if it doesn’t fit just go another route. If it’s too long it’s just not going to work.
Standardizing would be difficult because of all the old tractors still running. Some have multiple PTO drives on the tractor and then if you get into the trailered implements that attach to the draw bar it gets even more complicated.
Most implements use one a few standard PTO shaft attachments to the gearbox-either a splined dotting like the tractor or a round shaft with a shear bolt. Easy enough to switch shafts out if you needed to do so.

 

[Kbar]

I have a quick hitch but don’t run PTO driven implements so I don’t have these issues. Therefore a quick hitch is beneficial to guys like me who have a ballast box or box blade to take on and off at will without fiddling with the arms.

 

[ddinham]

When you get up there in age like I am, you will appreciate a quick hitch much more. I kept my iMatch from my 1025R for use on my 4066R. I now have a 1500# RFM and a 1750# brush hog. There is no way I am going to be able to muscle them around to hook them up without the benefit of my iMatch. And anybody who says they can hit the sweet spot for hookup the first time without an iMatch is stretching things. BTW, JD does not have those moveable endlinks as standard. My 4066R does not have them. However, they are available as an alternative extra cost option to an iMatch quick hitch. Personal choice.

The only equipment I have ever had to make any mods to the PTO shaft was on my approx 80 year old JD #5 sickle mower as it was not designed for 3pt hitches. Most of my summer work involves PTO work with this sickle mower and the RFM and brush hog previously mentioned. I have already used all three this summer. The iMatch does make it slightly more difficult in hooking up the PTO shaft, but I have that worked out pretty well.

When I was a youngster, we did not have any PTO powered implements. Belt powered implements were the popular choice back then. The sickle mower we had was an old horse drawn mower with the tongue cut off so it could be pulled by the tractor. Sometimes we had to ride on the mower to raise/lower the bar. Same way with a hay rake. We had the old horse drawn rakes with the tongue cut off so it could be pulled by the tractor and someone always had to ride on the rake to dump it to create the windrow. No side delivery rakes for us!! The large round balers had not yet been invented. Everyone baled square bales or the Allis Chalmers RotoBaler with small round bales. I handled a lot of bales behind a square baler during my teen years at 50 cents per hour and was tickled to get it. Some of those farmers would really pack those bales. Some of them weighed more than I did, but I could throw them higher than my head when stacking them on the following trailer. However, I only weighed 135 lbs in 9th grade, and only gained another 10 lbs throughout high school. A lot of memories from that time period of my life. Every boy growing up today ought to do the same thing, instead of playing games on a computer.

Dave

 

[TyBoo]

You should try one of those iMatch gizmos, it will greatly improve your outlook on the world, and on people like me.

I am not old enough to remember horse drawn implements but I am old enough to appreciate the quick hitch - and I only have one implement to use with it. The tiller is a hassle to connect for me so I got a cheap quick hitch that I leave the 3pt arms attached to when I put the backhoe on. It stores on a cart with the arms attached that can be wheeled into place to connect the arms and linkages. The hitch and cart saves me a lot of time and struggle when it goes back on and then the only hassle with picking up the tiller is connecting the PTO shaft which is still the right length. If I add up the time it has saved me and multiply it by what I made me per hour before I retired then the hitch has paid for itself already.

 

[JROC]

The issues isn't quick hitch, the issue is people who justify and defend manufacturers doing things that screw over or make it hard on their customers. I buy a new $40K tractor, I want to be able to hook up implements that are sized for it without having to cut and mod on the implement. If all trailers were made to be used on trucks that were lifted because a lot of people like to lift their trucks would you not think it's BS that your new stock $60K 1/2 ton now requires at least a 3" lift to be able to use a new trailer? You see what I'm getting at? It's like people that defend GM for having AFM/DFM lifter failures right and left and acting like people who are annoyed that their new truck just had a lifter fail is out of line and should understand that GM uses these evil technologies because the governments CAFE laws force them to get better MPG's. I'm sorry but of I buy a new truck I expect it to be reliable and I better like it so that would also exclude using a boosted V6 in place of a V8. Same with a tractor. If I buy a new tractor I expect it to mount a bush hog or disk mower, flail mower, or any other piece of equipment it's rated for without requiring me to mod it. And when did borrowing or lend equipment become an issue?

Yes throwing and stacking square bales on a wagon or truck gets old quick.

Pretty surprised that my 5E comes with the extendable 3PH links, but you 4R doesn't.?.? Most of your old Fords from the 90's even had them. (3930, 4630, etc)

 

[MTB98]

No I don’t see what you’re getting at. You don’t mod a trailer to fit a truck. You buy a drop or rise mount that fits your truck/trailer combo. It’s like getting the right PTO shaft. They sell them in all different lengths.

 

[dieselshadow]

Fellas, this thread was cleaned due to profanity filter bypassing. I’m not calling out the poster of this, as it’s not needed. Please do not post profanity or profanity filter bypasses. It would also be helpful not to quote those posts.

 

[pcabe5]

The implement you were trying to borrow, what tractor does your neighbor use with that implement?

 

[JROC]

The implement you were trying to borrow, what tractor does your neighbor use with that implement?

Farmtrac 665. They have 2 of the same tractor. Kind of like an early 90's Ford but with a flat deck operators station and a 12 speed transmission with the gear levers set up like they are on a JD 5E. This is my parents implement and tractors BTW.

This is always an issue though. Very few 3PH mounted/PTO driven implements will mount to my tractor with the proper clearance for the shaft. My JD just requires a very short shaft if you aren't pulling off the drawbar. Even ones that will fit are so tight that they really need to be shortened. I had to file my PTO's shaft once because the shaft on a disk mower barely fit, but apparently without proper clearance and the locking pin rolled a bur on it that prevented anything from going on it. Luckily it didn't break either my tractors gearbox.

 

[4840450j]

I’m seriously not trying to pour salt in a wound here but my 5075E without QH has hooked up to every implement (intergral or drawn) I have tried. Sorry yours is giving you fits.

 

[JROC]

I’m seriously not trying to pour salt in a wound here but my 5075E without QH has hooked up to every implement (intergral or drawn) I have tried. Sorry yours is giving you fits.

Hmmmm.....

I wonder if there could be noticeable variations between the same model tractors? I kind of doubt it would be much more than a quart to a half inch if even that. I have (a few years back) measured the difference between my parents Farmtracs and my Deere from the ball links to the end of the PTO and my tractor has like 2"-3" less distance between the two point than their tractors have.

I've wondered if Deere implements would fit better to get you to buy from them? I'm not buy Deere implements though. They're too expensive to be made in Mexico and to say Frontier instead of John Deere on the side.

Don't get me wrong my tractor will hook right up to any implement I've tried, it's just if it's both 3PH mounted and PTO driven that the shaft that come with the implements need to be shortened about 2"-3". This is especially true with disk and drum mowers, but even our bush hog will barely clear and in reality it really should be cut down some to make sure that it doesn't bottom out while being lifted and lowered.

I think my biggest problem with this being an issue at all is that a PTO shaft should be able to move at least 5"-6" back and forth and still have plenty of engage on both ends to be perfectly safe and reliable. If say a minimum length of a 28" shaft is required for tractors that need a short shaft, and say a minimum of 34" is required for tractors that can get away with a much longer shaft because they have quick hitch on a hitch that already had decent distance between the ball links and the PTO, then a 28" shaft should be able to accommodate both IMO without having to modify the shaft. From what I've seen looking online it seems to me that 30"-31" looks to be a common minimum length # for many PTO shafts that aren't cut down, but that a lot of newer tractors need a shaft to collapse to at least 28" or so, but IDK that for sure and it's just the impression I'm getting from researching this issue. This is something that can lead to very big and costly issues for both tractor and implement if you're bottoming the PTO shaft out so you would think that it would be something that the OEM tractor and implement manufacturers would take more series to insure that it's a problem that doesn't exist. I mean they're all about forcing a ton of safety switches and whatnot at owners, so why not dummy proof the 3PH/PTO shaft length issue that has apparently only popped up sometime in the 39 years that I've been on earth.

 

[murphranch]

Will extending your 3pt arms not solve your problem?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[bobby C]

Here’s a tip when connecting up to the implement. Connect the center link first, then you can turn the top linkin or out to move the bottom connection points in or out, to align with lift arms. Once you have connected one side you can draw the other side into alignment.

 

[Zebrafive]

I assumed end of PTO shaft to center of hole in lower link (at a certain height, level, above, or below the PTO shaft) is standardized? Is this NOT the case?