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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone,

I am very new to using tractors, backhoes and now posting threads in forums. As a matter of fact this is my first one.

I have a JD 210c loader/backhoe and I broke the rod coming out of the cylinder attached to the dipper. Not sure if it is my inexperience or not but everyone I talk to says they have never seen that before.

Anyway, I found the following thread (http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/construction-equipment/1964-1986-jd-210c-backhoe-loader.html) to be extremely helpfull. I have the cylinder out of the machine and I was trying to take the nut off the end of the cylinder to remove the broken rod but it won't come out. I have the cylinder in a chain vise (not too tight) and the nut spins easily but will not thread out.

2012-10-06 14.16.45.jpg

I was wondering if it there is a retainer ring holding it in and needs to be popped/pryed out? Any help would be greatly appreciated and I expect to be posting a lot more threads as problems arise.

Darren
 

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:wgtt:

First off, welcome! :bye: You're off to a great start, the picture really helps get the issue across.

Second, are you absolutely positive that the nut is turning and the cylinder is not? I know that sounds like a dumb question, I don't mean to sound condescending. The reason I ask is that if the nut is turning, it would have to be threading itself out at least to the end of the threads. Sometimes the nut will get to the end of the threads and stop moving. Seals inside the gland nut should have a pretty solid hold on the shaft, I've had to tap them the final little bit out with a rubber mallet before. In your photo, it looks like the gland nut is still hard up against the cylinder body. The only way I could envision the nut turning and not moving at all would be if the threads were completely stripped. If that were the case, I expect hydraulic pressure while using the machine would've blown the nut out of the cylinder body a long time ago!

If the nut is turning and staying right up against the cylinder, it would be very strange. At that point, I would think the entire cylinder might need replacing. Hopefully Kenny will see this and might be able to shed some more light on the subject. He really knows hydraulic stuff. :thumbup1gif:
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks 56FordGuy.

Now I have another problem though and I kind of have to laugh at myself.

I figured out that the nut actually doesn't thread into the cylinder but it threads onto the cylinder rod guide which is on the inside of the ring shown in the picture.

The next step is to push the rod guide into the cylinder then pull out a ring which holds the rod guide in place. What I didn't realize was that I pushed the rod guide in too far and blocked the hydraulic fluid return port at the top of the cylinder.

2012-10-06 19.19.48.jpg

Now I cannot pull the rod out because the air simply compresses in the cylinder and the rod is broken so there is no end and no way of grasping the rod enough to pull it out. I have to somehow figure how to overcome the pressure and force the rod guide out.
 

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Welcome to GTT!

You could use a little compressed air in the port to help it along. Just be extremely cautious about how much air you use. You could end up shooting things across the shop!

:wgtt:
 

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Thanks 56FordGuy.

Now I have another problem though and I kind of have to laugh at myself.

I figured out that the nut actually doesn't thread into the cylinder but it threads onto the cylinder rod guide which is on the inside of the ring shown in the picture.

The next step is to push the rod guide into the cylinder then pull out a ring which holds the rod guide in place. What I didn't realize was that I pushed the rod guide in too far and blocked the hydraulic fluid return port at the top of the cylinder.
Hmm. That makes sense, now that you've broken it down. Maybe you could do as Diesel suggested and use some compressed air in the bottom port to push the rod guide out?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I did try that but I had a poor seal on the port plus I think I maxed out on pressure at about 100psi which may or may not be a good thing.

I'm going to try it again tomorrow with some nitrogen and a better fitting. Hopefully I don't get too carried away with the pressure but I'll take it out of the garage and point it downrange. Maybe I'll get lucky and I won't blow the rod and everything else down the driveway and send me on an Easter hunt looking for all the parts that could blow out. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Thanks, guys.
 

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Darren, I am sorry for the late reply, I left the house for a family function after my last message to you and did not get home till late last night.

If the rod is broken, why cant you pull it out of the seal pack and make a hook or something to get behind it and pull it out?

Have you pulled the rod out yet? If so is it really broken or did the nut fall off/strip out?

I looked in JDP and can't find a cylinder that matched the pictures of yours, it is the one on the boom that moves the second arm up and down correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well I tried the compressed air option but it didn't work because I couldn't get a really good seal. However I did find another way though and I'm a little surprised that it worked.

2012-10-08 11.24.45.jpg

I put the rod end into a chain vise and supported the cylinder on a ladder. Keeping the cylinder within 1" to the vise was key for the best leverage.

2012-10-08 11.24.07.jpg

I just pried the cylinder away from the chain vise toward the ladder and 'bingo', it just slid out. Unfortunatley (again with my luck) it slid a little further then I intended and I didn't have the orange ring in the groove for the retainer ring and something must be binding in it because now it's stuck again. I'll have to work on that now. A good thing as well for future reference was the chain vise did no damage to the rod either. So I could probable do this again and still reuse the rod without damaging the seals.

Kennyd - No problem on the late reply and I appreciate the help. I should have explained where the rod is broken but as you can see by the these pictures I just uploaded the rod snapped in half between the rod end and the cylinder. I was on the JD Parts website (which I am a huge fan of now - Thank you for posting how to get to it) and they call this the 'Crowd Cylinder'.
 

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Glad you are making progress Darren! I will attach a picture of the cylinder below.

Getting that orange ring perfectly in the groove can be a challenge-take your time...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well, I have victory. It was like trying to win the Kentucky Derby riding a stubborn mule trying to get the piston out without that orange ring. I just couldn't get it out and I was trying everything. Then I realized that whoever assembled the cylinder had put the orange ring around the rod guide behind the gland nut. Getting it into the groove was extremely tricky. I wrecked part of it by trying to pull the rod guide out when the orange ring was not installed correctly which didn't make it any easier.

2012-10-13 14.23.20.jpg

I was having a heck of a time trying to get a new rod at a decent price. I have no idea what possessed John Deere to use a metric (45mm) rod on this machine. Most hydraulic shops wanted in the $800 to $1000 range because they all had to use 1.75" rod and rechrome it to 45mm, weld the eyelet on the end then drill and thread a hole at the bottom for the bolt holding the piston on. I finally found a place close by that has access to 45mm rod which saves me a bundle because they don't have to modify the thickness. I got them down to $475 and they will order in all the seals that I need too. I'm going to keep this place in the rolladex.

Now I just need to wait till next Tuesday and let the games begin to reinstall everything and get back to digging holes and popping out stumps. Hopefully all goes well and I can get it all together smoothly.

Does anybody know how I can get a copy of the owners/user manual for this machine? A tech manual would be awesome if anybody has that too???
 

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Glad to see a resolution

Does anybody know how I can get a copy of the owners/user manual for this machine? A tech manual would be awesome if anybody has that too???
You can get them either from your dealer or from JD's website here. The paper version is about twice as expensive as the CD version. I'd get the CD version and print the manual or section you're working on.:thumbup1gif:
 

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If you are not in a hurry ebay is a great place th pickup manuals and manuals on CD. Some JD dealers will burn you a CD of the parts catalog for a all you JD equipment for a nominal fee
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well it was a long tough road but I finally had to bring the cylinder to a hydraulic shop nearby. These guys were great, $535 for the new rod and for another $120 they reassembled it all and tested the cylinder for bypassing fluid and leaks. I tried to do it all myself but I had to give up because the bolt on the back connecting the piston to the rod was impossible to manually remove myself. If I did manage to get it off there would be no way to reinstall the bolt to the proper torque anyway. I brought the assembly home and after about a week of solid rain finally got it reinstalled and I'm back in business digging (carefully) out stumps.

I'm going to head over to my local John Deere dealer and get a user and repair manaul for this machine.

I'd like to thank you all for your assisstance, I would never have been able to get to this point without it. :thumbup1gif:

As I am a new machine owner I am sure that I will be creating new posts in the future.
 

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Thanks for the update, sounds like you did everything you could-everyone needs professional help at some point (just ask user Gizmo).
 
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