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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've had my 4066R tractor for three years - love it!! Last weekend while digging another stump the bucket cylinder folded up like a wet noodle. JD wants ~$2,000 for a cylinder or $600 for the rod (assuming just a new rod would solve). Still working with my local dealer to see if they will help but it seems unlikely. So for less than $300 I can get a cylinder from Magister Hydraulics. Problem is I didn't measure the stroke before it failed and can't do it now with a stuck bent rod. Its the only other spec I need. JD does not shares their specs online so I thought I would reach out to this forum.

How do members feel about aftermarket cylinders, specifically Magister Hydraulics? Is anyone able to provide the stroke measurement I need?

As a side note, in my searches I found another 485A owner that had this exact problem after using his new backhoe for three hours!

https://www.tractorforum.com/threads/john-deere-backhoe-cylinder-failure.50969/

I have included a picture of my broken equipment here.

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Old Pa-pa
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Have the same setup as you, this gives me the shivers, especially with the examples
from www.tractorforum.com!!!

Have pushed mine to the limit a number of times digging out stumps and large roots, don't understand how this can happen.
Would think the rod should hold up to the pressure a 4066r can put on it!!!
If not, a design problem or flawed rod on Deere's part.

Measurements from mine and pics: (Calling it an 18" stroke)
Keep us informed on whatever you find out, thanks.

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Just checked my 485 BH and the lower dipper cylinder stroke is just shy of 18”. Cylinder rod diameter is right at 1.5” as well.


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Last weekend while digging another stump the bucket cylinder folded up like a wet noodle. JD wants ~$2,000 for a cylinder or $600 for the rod (assuming just a new rod would solve).
Can't help it, John Deere junk.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Have the same setup as you, this gives me the shivers, especially with the examples
from www.tractorforum.com!!!

Have pushed mine to the limit a number of times digging out stumps and large roots, don't understand how this can happen.
Would think the rod should hold up to the pressure a 4066r can put on it!!!
If not, a design problem or flawed rod on Deere's part.

Measurements from mine and pics: (Calling it an 18" stroke)
Keep us informed on whatever you find out, thanks.

View attachment 808020 View attachment 808021
Neil, thanks for taking the time to make that measurement. I was matching the barrel length to select the aftermarket cylinder and that would have landed me at a 22" stroke for my 485A bucket cylinder. If I can bother you once more I now think the best way to pick the right cylinder is to measure from center of pin to center of pin fully retracted and fully extended. The difference is the stroke and those numbers also provide the right overall cylinder length.

Update from yesterday is that John Deere is working with me but since I am out of warranty its not perfect. They offered to come pick up my machine so they can inspect for themselves and make a determination on why the cylinder failed. My son thinks I should just get the right sized $200 aftermarket cylinder and get on with it which is why I'm asking you for the pin to pin measurements.

Thanks again, Darrel

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Old Pa-pa
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I can bother you once more I now think the best way to pick the right cylinder is to measure from center of pin to center of pin fully retracted and fully extended. The difference is the stroke and those numbers also provide the right overall cylinder length.
No bother at all.
Retracted fully center pin to center pin = 26"
Extended fully center pin to center pin = 43 1/2 "
 
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There're a few details needed when replacing a cylinder. First is operating pressure. Next would be pin center distances both extended and retracted... subtracting these will give you the stroke. Last, and not too important is bore size. Bore size will determine pounds of force the cylinder is capable of producing and speed of operation... a larger piston will provide more force but may be slower due to the max flow rate of your system. Rod diameter is also critical, but you have to depend/believe the Engineer did his job and it's correct for the pressure!
As a comment, barrel length & stroke are not related! The thickness of the end caps... at ends... plus the thickness of the piston will determine the stroke. ALL of these "thicknesses" are inside and would require dismantling to determine the stroke.
You CAN determine the pin to pin measurements needed! Disconnect bucket cylinder, raise boom, extend dipper stick roughly full raise, and then lower boom until bucket contacts ground... soil preferred and not concrete/pavement. Move tractor forward, ensure bucket is still on ground, until bucket is in full, uncurled/dump position. Measure from top cylinder mounting pin to mounting pin on bucket. This is the retracted cylinder dimension.
A little more "playing" involved next! Raise boom, pull dipper stick up to tractor, and lower boom until bucket contacts ground. Drive tractor in reverse to fully curl/load bucket... you'll probably have to "play" with boom & stick to get bucket into FULL curl position. Measure top pin to bucket pin, this is the extended cylinder position... Subtracting retracted length form extended length will give you cylinder stroke.
You can go through the exercise above or wait for addition posts!
 

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@Old Cajun, I typed a response and got 'system doing maintenance' and couldn't reply, thus my comment of "wait for additional replies." When I finally replied, you had the answers! Bob
 

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I bent the bucket cylinder on my model 48 backhoe. It bent into a U. It was replaced with a loader cylinder with the same stroke, I just had to have the rod shortened and the end eye welded back on. I was also able to upgrade to a slightly larger diameter rod while keeping the bore the same. Magister is great, excellent selection and fast shipping. I now have 3 of their cylinders on my backhoe. I would be willing to bet money that Magister will have a better quality cylinder than what JD ended up using. JD loves to use cylinders that have rather odd specs, so I ended up having to make some minor mods to adapt the aftermarket part.

When it bent, I was pulling on a root at about 2300 RPM. The boom and dipper were fully extended. I curled the bucket to grab the root, then pulled the boom and dipper in. So the rod was nearly fully extended also. There would have been a great deal of force on that bucket cylinder. I have a post about this somewhere on tractorbynet, here:
 

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Old Pa-pa
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Well this has me bugged enough that I went out and measure the straightness of the
rod fully extended with a steel draftsman's 16" ruler (very precise straight edge).
Rod looked perfectly straight as far as I could see, measured all 4 quadrants.

My big question now is where are the rods manufactured for Deere, India or even
worse China???
 
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It looks like the manufacturer of the model 48 backhoe that I have may be Ameriquip. I found a hoe on FB marketplace that looks exactly like the model 48, but with some changes to the mount. It's likely that Ameriquip also builds other attachments for JD.

In the case of my bent bucket cylinder, I was able to get a replacement cylinder from Magister for about $170, then paid a welder another $40 to cut the rod (because the replacement was too long) and weld the original rod pivot onto the new one. I also had to also change the pin and add bushings to the cylinder end because JD had a weird pin size. When changing the cylinder, be sure to get a larger dia rod! The change in rod dia made no perceptible change in performance.
 

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It looks like the manufacturer of the model 48 backhoe that I have may be Ameriquip. I found a hoe on FB marketplace that looks exactly like the model 48, but with some changes to the mount. It's likely that Ameriquip also builds other attachments for JD.
Arps was producing the backhoe attachments for JD back in the late 70's through early 80's. They were then purchased, merged with another company and renamed Ameriquip in 1983. Arps produced the legendary and extremely durable #7, 8, 8A, 10 & 10A backhoes in the early 80's and continued supplying Deere with subsequent models.

I personally owned a #8 BH from ~1981 through 1990 and put over 2,000 hours on the 950 TLB. Never, ever had a breakdown. Just maintenance and some backhoe bucket welding and tooth replacement. Absolute beast of a rig. Hard steering even with power assist, weak brakes, stiff clutch and bad F/R gear ratios. A day of loader work was brutal BUT it never broke.

Also owned a 1070 TLB with a #10 BH from late 1990 through 2008 and managed to rack up ~1700 hours. What an improvement over the 950 TLB! Steering, brakes, clutch, gear ratios and a fully synchronized main transmission with three ranges. A dream to run and you could shift gears on the fly with the 1070, something that couldn't be done on the smaller, collar shift X70 tractors.

Here's the Ameriquip company history:

Arps - Ameriquip
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
No bother at all.
Retracted fully center pin to center pin = 26"
Extended fully center pin to center pin = 43 1/2 "
Neil and other forum helpers,

The John Deere dealership got back to me this morning. For my out of warranty situation they were willing to travel my machine to and from their shop, pay labor and 2/3 of the part cost. 1/3 corporate, 1/3 dealership, and 1/3 to me. Still leaving me with an expense north of $600 for a simple cylinder replacement. Magister has a replacement that almost exactly matches the original cylinder for $171 so I am going to give that a try instead.

Neil and other 485A owners, if you ship me your email address I can send you the stroke measurements I took yesterday for all of the 4066R and 485A cylinders for future reference. I can be reached at [email protected].
 

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Neil and other 485A owners, if you ship me your email address I can send you the stroke measurements I took yesterday for all of the 4066R and 485A cylinders for future reference. I can be reached at [email protected].
Why not post them here?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I didn't post my data yesterday just because I'm not familiar with how much you guys use the forum for a specific piece of equipment. Sounds like you just toss it out there for all to consider. So for my fifth post, here are my measurements for a 2018 4066R tractor, 440R loader, Frontier 4n1 bucket and 485A backhoe. With a broken backhoe and without a hole on my property right now that is deep enough, I couldn't fully extend the backhoe boom so don't have that measurement. Maybe Neil can fill in that blank like he provided for the backhoe bucket. Also, I decided to wait until my backhoe is off to measure the 3-pt hitch stroke. The measurements are made with a simple Stanley tape measure so 0.375" was really my eyeball saying 3/8" not four significant figures measured decimally. They will get you in the ballpark.

CylinderRetractedExtendedStroke
loader bucket lift (x2)​
30.250​
49.250​
19.000​
loader bucket tilt (x2)​
33.500​
49.250​
15.750​
loader bucket clam (x2)​
15.750​
22.250​
6.500​
backhoe stabilizer (x2)​
21.125​
38.125​
17.000​
backhoe swing (x2)​
16.500​
24.500​
8.000​
backhoe boom​
28.500​
backhoe dipper​
24.125​
39.375​
15.250​
backhoe bucket​
26.000​
43.500​
17.500​
3-Pt hitch lift (x2)​
Steering​
20.500​
31.000​
10.500​
 

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Old Pa-pa
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So for my fifth post, here are my measurements for a 2018 4066R tractor, 440R loader, Frontier 4n1 bucket and 485A backhoe.
Thanks for all the info. (y)(y)
Will get the boom extended measurement.
 

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I didn't post my data yesterday just because I'm not familiar with how much you guys use the forum for a specific piece of equipment.
Thanks (y)
 
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