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Discussion Starter #1
Hello Everyone!
I have bee reading many of the posts and find them very interesting but I seem to have a similar problem to many other people but my problem is when the PTO switch to the mower is turned off, the 25 amp fuse blows. This happened after a sudden jolt to the tractor when the mower deck hit a cement block hidden in the grass. The blades didn't hit it just the deck. I have replaced the switch and no different. I have disconnected every possible electrical component, lights, TDCM, solenoid, clutch and a couple of others. When putting a meter on the switch the power wire feeds the wires to the clutch when in the "On" position, which is good. As soon as I put the switch in the off position the power feeds the other terminal which is a ground wire.
My switch has 5 terminals 2 seem to be constant power and not related to the switch at all, 1 is power to the switch itself which feeds the 4th. terminal for the mower and the 5th terminal appears to be a ground wire.
I have taken the covering off of some of the wire bundles and can't find any sign of freyed wires or burned wires. I'm really stumped on this one. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Have a great day folks!
 

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There should be 2 purple wires on pto switch, one coming from 25 amp fuse and other going to rear pto switch. Verify the wire going to the rear pto switch is not pinched/grounded. I've attached the 322/332 schematic. Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Bob: I'll go poking around some more with my meter. I don't have a PTO switch for the back just the front which should simplify things a bit. I just can't seem to figure out why I am getting a direct short across 2 terminals on the switch when it is in the OFF position but I will check again for any pinched or bare wires.
Many thanks for your time and the schematic!
 

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Test the PTO coil itself.
Sounds like an internal short.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi again Everyone: Well I have looked around and can't find any evidence of damaged wires. There are 2 red wires on the PTO switch which carry 12V but don't seem to have any effect on the switch itself. The fuse wire goes to the ignition switch. There are 2 blue wires on terminal #4 which engage the PTO clutch and that is working. This gets the 12V power from terminal #3 in the picture which is fed by 2 green wires. The problem seems to be with Terminal #5. The black wire connected to here goes straight to a grounding terminal on the collar of the ignition switch. It is this terminal (#5) that when the PTO switch is in the "OFF" position creates a direct short through the switch from the 12V power on Terminal #3. This is a brand new switch so it should be fine. I just don't know why it would go directly to ground when in the "OFF" position, but that is what is blowing the fuse. Could it be the voltage regulator is broken? Thanks everyone for your help.

PTOswitch.jpg
 

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Hmm, I checked my TM for all 332/322 schematics for various serial number breaks and NONE showed a pto switch with 5 terminals. What does the plug look like that goes onto the pto switch? Does it connect to 5 terminals or 4...and is there a separate wire for terminal 5?

I'm having problems interpreting the schematic as I really have no idea what's happening inside the TDM. I do know it "looks at" safety switches and allows you to do things, like start and turn on pto's! I also remember reading, and will try to find again, that without a rear pto a jumper needs to be installed.

As a last check, does the wire on terminal #5 have a plug on the end that can just be disconnected from the ground ring on ign switch? Try disconnecting that and see what happens! Bob
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Good Morning Bob:
The plug for terminal #1 and #2 is a single plug containing both wires. The plug for terminals #3, #4, and #5 was all one plug until I had this problem and originally I thought is was a loose wire for terminal #5 as I would see it arc so I isolated that wire onto a separate clip so now #3 and #4 are still on the same plug and #5 has its own clip. Now I did see one of the two power wires feeding #3 is joined into #1 and #2 through a connector farther down the line. Is it possible the Time Delay Module is faulty? Could it be that when the mower deck hit the buried cement block the sudden jolt could have damaged the Time Delay Module? It does have a lot of years on it and many of these wires are connected through that module. I certainly appreciate your time Bob. Thanks so much.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sorry, I forgot to reply to your last question. If I leave terminal #5 off everything seems to operate fine. The PTO clutch engages when the switch is on and the fuse doesn't blow when the switch is off. I'm tempted just to leave the wire off and cover it but I'm not sure if it would be creating another problem later on. I don't know why this is acting up now as we have never touched the wiring.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
UPDATE: Ok, I was reading, doing a lot of that lately, that the solenoid for the diesel fuel is also operated through the Time Delay Module and for some time now the solenoid hasn't been engaging, we have had to do it manually as it would stay engaged to run and we just thought it was the solenoid at fault. From what I was reading, it may be the Time Delay Module so I just went and tested the solenoid with two wires I ran from the battery and it engages when the one terminal has power and stays engaged when the other terminal gets power so I am thinking the solenoid is fine and I am thinking it is the Time Delay Module which seems to be common to the PTO problem I'm having and the solenoid problem. Any ideas???
I'm also thinking that since I have the fenders off, the rad out and various other panels off I might as well paint it while it's sitting here but the fall yard work is calling....louder every day!!
 

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There used to be guys over on WFMachines.com who would repair the Time Delay Control Modules.
They arent cheap to replace otherwise.
Its been a while since I had one apart, but they are fairly simple internally. They do fail, or rather, individual components inside fail.
If you can figure out what parts are bad inside, and know how to work a small soldering iron on a circuit board, you could possibly fix it yourself.
 
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I can't locate any test/diagnosis procedures for the TDCM. Without testing, I'd really hate to say replace it, although it sounds like this is your problem.

I looked at JDParts and found a module, AM102890...still available for $332.

What bothers me the most, though, is your pto switch going to ground in the "off" position...doesn't make sense and I can't find any reference of a ground wire for that switch.

If it was my tractor, I'd run with the #5 wire disconnected, manually operate the fuel solenoid, do the fall yard work, and paint during the winter!

Sorry I can't be of more help, but I've reached the end of my technical abilities! Bob
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Hi Jim: Thanks for the information. I am still not 100% sure it is the Time Delay Module although I believe everything is pointing in that direction. I know they aren't cheap so I'd like to get some more opinions before I take it apart or get a new one. I am hoping there is some kind of a circuit in that module that would prevent the short on my PTO switch and thereby save my fuse.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hi Bob: Thanks so much for all your time and information. I may call the local dealer and see if they can test the Time Delay module. You are right though I cannot figure at all why there would be a direct "current to ground" connection in the switch. I appreciate your assistance. The yard work will have to wait however, it's snowing a bit so it's getting covered nicely! :laugh:
Enjoy the Day
 

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AG,m I'm still looking at schematics, etc.

Do you have an hour meter...that works?
Two wires come out of the TDCM, a pink & a pink/blk, and go to your fuel solenoid. I'm thinking the pink/blk pulls in your solenoid and the pink then holds it in. The pink then goes to the hour meter. If your solenoid doesn't pull in at all or if your hour meter doesn't work, it's looking more & more like the TDCM.

Still tryin' ta help ya, Bob
 

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There are 2 and 3 wire fuel solinoids. One is always ground

On two wire the non ground wire gets powered all the time in run.

On a three wire one wire only has power momentarily to energize a pull circuit. The third has low power all the time in run and operates a hold circuit. When these fail it’s usually the pull circuit that fails first.
 
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I am the author of the thread on TDCM measurements referenced above...please be aware that the TDCM voltage measurements in the linked thread above are specific to the gas engine 318 Onan twin cylinder tractor...although many of the functions are common between all tractors with the TDCM variants being used. Check with the TM1591 for detailed schematics and nuances specific to the 332...

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #18
WOW! Thank-you everyone for all the great assistance. I will definitely give the TDCM a test and see what I get. Now I read somewhere else and I think I am interpreting this correctly but one function of the TDCM is to buffer the sudden drop in voltage when something, like the PTO switch is turned off. Could that be the purpose of the grounded circuit on my PTO switch? I'm really guessing at this, but perhaps the TDCM has failed and is letting the full current rather than a small amount go to this grounded terminal for too long and that blows the 25 amp fuse. Opinions on this?? I could be way off in thinking this.
Have a great weekend everyone and thanks so much.
Garry
 

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There is no voltage stabilization features in the TDCM on these garden tractors. The safety circuits have connections that would be at ground potential for certain states/conditions -- perhaps that is causing some of your confusion. Here is the wiring in that area:

332 and 430 PTO -- SN above 420468.jpg

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Hello Everyone:
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Looking at all the different schematics that you have been so kind to send, I believe my tractor is wired differently. It sounds strange but I think that what I am seeing in the schematics is different from my tractor primarily in that I do not have a rear PTO switch but even some of the wires are not connected as shown. I am trying to get a chance to roughly sketch out how mine is wired so I can post it. Initially from what I seem many of the wires are connected through the TDCM and that is where I think the problem is. I still want to take it off and see if I can test it.
Thanks again for all the input you have sent me.
Garry
 
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