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I would respectfully disagree!! Incorrect application of the law has little or nothing to do with a civil case. Civil cases aren't about law necessarily, they are about assigning liability due to a problem with a product, at least that is what is being purported in this case.

Only about 15% of civil cases are considered for appeal. Of these 15%, half of them were appealed by the plaintiff and the other half by the defendant. Of these, even the the cases that are reconsidered, they are most of the time settled rather than re-litigated.

A case cannot be appealed just because you do not like the outcome. There would have to be evidence allowed in the case that was not admissible or a procedural issue by the judge. Absent of these, a case will not be considered for appeal.

These things do not normally happen in these types of civil cases because the evidence is what it is. There really isn't any evidence other than the documents and the fact that the tractor was sold without ballast, and the judgement was given by a jury, not the judge.

The only thing that could possibly be considered is the amount of the judgement, but I doubt that is even an issue, as I have personally have seen judgement's higher than this in these types of cases, so 5 mil is not out of the ordinary in a civil case where a younger man, and possible father, was killed in a product liability case.

I'm not saying I agree, just stating what I know and have seen. Heck, I have seen settlements higher than 5 mil.

JD, and their insurance company, may consider an appeal if they believe they have standing for an appeal, but most likely, only if they believe they can prove the judge made misleading direction to the jury. Other than that, it will stand.
I looked at 3 different articles written by civil lawyers. If you are a lawyer then the issue is not clear, but what I saw didn’t offer maybes or sometimes it was ‘this is the law in all state and federal courts.’

The only part that depended on what court heard the case was if the appellant had to put the judgement in trust while appealing.

I did fail to include adjustment of the amount of the judgement as a capability of of the appeals court.


I do have to ask when you said pay or go to jail, who exactly would go to jail if Deere the public corporation failed to pay? In my state there is no jail option, they can suspend all state licenses, there are some contempt options against individuals for failure to appear, there are asset seizure options, but they cannot jail anyone to settle civil penalties. I have no idea what Oklahoma law is in that instance.
 

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DIYer, nice follow up.

We ABSOLUTELY try to support new owners and educate them.
Not only that but the last longtime member who tipped his ended up with a lot of things to help make sure it doesn’t again thanks to some generous members of this forum. And he deserved every bit of it.


$5,000,000 is nothing to Deere.
As a whole you are right but it makes you think. I do not care the brand but garden tractor and compact owners are fat more brutal on dealers and builders than farmers with larger equipment. A smaller builder might decide perhaps this isn’t not a game we need to play. Then who suffers, every one who can no longer get parts or support.
 

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Just for kicks, I'm going to stop by my dealer this week and talk to the salesman there about this. He's not the salesman that I dealt with when I bought the tractor. I'll be curious to get his take on this. I'll report back.
I think you might find that your dealer as a whole is much more educated on these small tractors than they used to be. I know my dealership has had to refocus there attention as many farms go out of business and compacts become a bigger seller. For so many years around here AG must the main focus for all dealers, most AG farmers aren't going to ballast a tractor to do FEL work. Understandably with loaded tires there was never much need, but as farms continue to go out of business and become less of the focus the compact side of sales has become huge. Hence, a learning curve for dealers as well, now they need to start focusing on things like rear ballast and trying to educate potential "new to the tractor world people".

Just a thought, everyone can agree or not
 

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Oh, and apparently asterix gets you bold font. Sorry
Yeah, the other day I thing I did ' around something and it made it italics. This site doesn't have a manual....

No one here is going to slam you because you are a new owner / operator, and none of these comments (at least mine) are intended for new owners. We really don't know anything about the dead guy, other than, well - he messed up and he is dead.

Many of us are pissed because someone decided that JD should be at fault for someone else's actions.

Maybe the dealer didn't do full due diligence during the sale or at delivery.... but because this is about MONEY and GREED, they sued JD Corporate because that is where the law lets them get the MOST MONEY.

The only real person at fault was the individual that didn't care enough about his family to insure that he would come home at the end of the day.

If you seek knowledge, you will find it. I, we, are glad to share what we can with anyone willing to learn.


The irony of this is JD was the pioneer behind Rollover Protection, and didn't patent it, but rather shared the idea with the rest of the industry.
 

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Somebody clearly explained the quote and multi-quote the other day. I need to find that again. For now...

I wasn’t aware of this, but some things are best implemented by all, and it sounds like JD did the right thing by leaving this open source, and others by adopting it


“The irony of this is JD was the pioneer behind Rollover Protection, and didn't patent it, but rather shared the idea with the rest of the industry.”

Honestly, after being on here, I was a little shocked Mr. Dealer didn’t push ballast and safety as part of the sales pitch. As it’s all add-ons, it seems to me a logical way to try to pad the sale while emphasizing safe use

Mr. Dealer: “You know, you could lower your center of gravity and buy a little peace of mind by adding $400 in wheel weights. That’s only $8/mo over the course of your loan.“

or something like that anyway... ;)
 

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Somebody clearly explained the quote and multi-quote the other day. I need to find that again. For now...

I wasn’t aware of this, but some things are best implemented by all, and it sounds like JD did the right thing by leaving this open source, and others by adopting it


“The irony of this is JD was the pioneer behind Rollover Protection, and didn't patent it, but rather shared the idea with the rest of the industry.”

Honestly, after being on here, I was a little shocked Mr. Dealer didn’t push ballast and safety as part of the sales pitch. As it’s all add-ons, it seems to me a logical way to try to pad the sale while emphasizing safe use

Mr. Dealer: “You know, you could lower your center of gravity and buy a little peace of mind by adding $400 in wheel weights. That’s only $8/mo over the course of your loan.“

or something like that anyway... ;)
We have no way of knowing, but the dealer may well have suggested more weight on the rear wheels, loading the tires, and a ballast box. The response may have been, "No, I am at the top of my budget to buy this tractor and can't afford any more in my payment." I feel bad for the victim and his family. I am baffled as to why the Deere attorneys did not make an issue about the Roll-Gard (ROPS) (I'm old) and seat belt.
 

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I'll ask my neighbors wife next time I'm at my place near Moline, IL As she is a council for Deere bet she'll know what happens weather Deere pay's or appeal's My guess is appeal
[QUOTE="

DIYer - no one here is going "to turn on you in an instant". I've never seen that in my time on this board. But as Jason said, you learn as you go. And you ask questions. And then continue to learn even more as you go. I've had my tractor since October 2014 and I don't consider myself an expert in any sort of operation with it!!
I tried to do the quote thing here. First time, so apologies if this works out funky... :) *

I get what you're saying, of course. Like I said, I know it's not about me, or other newbs and I don’t believe anyone is going to hammer me personally if I do something stupid.

Ok, if I deserve it, and I share it on here with you guys knowing I may take some licks, then I deserve it. 😆
[/QUOTE]
Your statements have lots of merit. No one in born with experience in whatever you want to talk about and experience cannot be taught or read in a book.

People gain experience throughout their lives and some people never have the opportunity to gain experience.

An example is driving a vehicle with a clutch a manual shift transmission. Being the age I am, I wrongly assume EVERYONE has had the opportunity to drive a stick shift vehicle. WRONG!!! Does that make them some kind of lessor human being. NO!!!! It just means they have not had the opportunity to experience driving a stick shift vehilce. The same can be said about everything.

I hear this all the time in the crane industry that I work in. I hear things like, " this younger generation doesn't know how to do anything" all the time. I usually try to temper this argument with, "the first day you got in a crane, did you know everything about it or did you have to learn".

So many times we just assume everyone should be as experienced as we are even though it took us a life time to learn what we know. That isn't a fair assessment.

This also creeps into the sales world. In this case, the DEALER should have been the entity to explain to the buyer why he needs ballast on this tractor. John Deere provides all of this information, but they do not have contact with the buyer, the dealer does.

This is why it is sooooo important to have a good dealer, EVEN THOUGH THEY MIGHT NOT BE THE CHEAPEST!!!!

This all said, I would believe there will be some serious looking at how tractors are sold. My guess, there will be something like....when you buy a tractor with an FEL, the ballast box is included. If you do not want the ballast box, you will have to decline it on the order.
 

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I looked at 3 different articles written by civil lawyers. If you are a lawyer then the issue is not clear, but what I saw didn’t offer maybes or sometimes it was ‘this is the law in all state and federal courts.’

The only part that depended on what court heard the case was if the appellant had to put the judgement in trust while appealing.

I did fail to include adjustment of the amount of the judgement as a capability of of the appeals court.


I do have to ask when you said pay or go to jail, who exactly would go to jail if Deere the public corporation failed to pay? In my state there is no jail option, they can suspend all state licenses, there are some contempt options against individuals for failure to appear, there are asset seizure options, but they cannot jail anyone to settle civil penalties. I have no idea what Oklahoma law is in that instance.
I guess I should say, I have been our company representative in so many of these types of civil cases and have dealt with so many attorneys, either as an expert witness or by subpoena for deposition.

These cases are always between insurance companies. John Deere may be partially self insured but even then, there self insurance is handled through some sort of captive insurance program or similar to this. Companies that are self insurer do not hold all of the liability themselves.

Appeals in these cases rarely happen. They just don't because there is rarely a basis for appeal. Again, the defendant doesn't decide whether the case is appealed.

I'm not saying it won't be appealed, but I would be very surprised if it is. I just don't see anything in this case that would give consideration for an appeal.

Who goes to jail?? No one because the judgement will be paid, no choice in this matter. John Deere and their insurance company have probably already made payment.
 

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This is why our laws need to be changed.

Little to no facts needed

Little to no accountability for ones action.

Little to no recourse when you are held liable beyond reason.

All you need is a good shyster and 12 emotional puppets to sit as a jury.

No wonder personal injury lawyers are all over the place.
 

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I guess I should say, I have been our company representative in so many of these types of civil cases and have dealt with so many attorneys, either as an expert witness or by subpoena for deposition.

These cases are always between insurance companies. John Deere may be partially self insured but even then, there self insurance is handled through some sort of captive insurance program or similar to this. Companies that are self insurer do not hold all of the liability themselves.

Appeals in these cases rarely happen. They just don't because there is rarely a basis for appeal. Again, the defendant doesn't decide whether the case is appealed.

I'm not saying it won't be appealed, but I would be very surprised if it is. I just don't see anything in this case that would give consideration for an appeal.

Who goes to jail?? No one because the judgement will be paid, no choice in this matter. John Deere and their insurance company have probably already made payment.
I doubt the have made a Payment yet and weather they will. Deere usually always appeals judgements like this. That has always been there history So I am basing my statement on what Deere Has done in the Past. There not know for settling. Yes Insurance will cover this type of Lawsuit. But it depends On what the legal department head at Deere decides.. My oldest son use to see cases like this appealed all the time as he use to have this type of case In his previous Courtroom. He further pointed out this yesterday evening on this question I had asked. He said if Deere were going to settle they would not have taken it to court In the first place. He said this case will more than likely be appealed as you don't need as much to appeal a civil ruling as you would in a criminal ruling. He's a Appellate court Judge In District 4 currently But he use to hear Appeals in Civil matters in his Previous court
 

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I've been a juror on criminal and civil trials. I can say from what I've experienced, many people vote on their gut emotion and will ignore evidence and facts. That's why you can get the unexpected verdict. Not to get too deep in details because it would make a very long post. We acquitted a homeowner of assault with a gun for putting a round through a guys radiator who refused to leave his driveway. Technically he was guilty I suppose. We all basically felt the homeowner was a decent guy and the other man was a scumbag and got what he deserved. Case closed.
 

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40 yrs ago wouldn't nobody be suing nobody over an accident on a tractor. It's a piece of machinery and machinery can be dangerous. It would have been viewed as a horrible accident and ever body would move on with their lives.

No different than somebody dying in a car accident. Years ago folks would say, oh my that's terrible that feller died.
Now days if something "bad" happens, someone, or some group thinks we need to form a committee to ensure that NEVER happens again.
Hey! Let's make these cars decide for themselves if the driver should change lanes, or step on the brakes. No need for folks to pay attention to WTF they are doing.

Accidents happen, accidents are preventable, but not by lawsuits, or some damn committee, they are preventable by me and you. And....humans are humans, and humans make mistakes.
Take responsibility for your actions and your equipment.
 

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People today seem to expect everything done for them and accept no responsibility for themselves.
There ya go. My point exactly.

As a general rule, yes, but I'm not saying that the deceased feller falls in this category at all.
 

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No matter what someone purchases, regardless of their experience, that person has a responsibility to themselves and their loved ones to RTFM! This could have been avoided if that person had read the manual and if he didn't understand what he was reading, had the responsibility, again, to ask professionals to clear up any lack of understanding. A very sad situation indeed!
 

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They should have ballasted the tractor before letting it go from the dealership. Plain and simple. It should be standard protocol to put ballast in with the loader build. They take it off, and die, and it’s on them. It shouldn’t be up to a tractor dealer to determine wether it can be overlooked at the time of sale. They need to implement this in their builds. If you manufacture, and sell equipment, it should be safe to run coming from the dealership. Ballast shouldn’t be another expensive add on. It should come with the loader
Kbar, You have a right to an opinion. But you're wrong. A tractor is a multipurpose machine. No one can know its ultimate use except the operator. Deere's lawyers made a mistake in not stressing the machine was miss-applied. Ballast is only a single factor. And that ballast can be many forms NOT supplied by Deere. In my case I don't want any tire loading, or ballast unit. The extra weight compacts soil damaging it for crops. I know enough to either attach something as ballast or use it within a more limited operating envelope.
 

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It is a tragedy the guy died. But what ever happened to personal responsibility?

I don’t blame the lady for trying to collect either. Duno the situation with children, life insurance etc. I blame the legal system for allowing people to pass the buck.

Tractors are safer now than ever before. BUT if you do something stupid or are inexperienced enough to not know you are doing something stupid you might just manage to get yourself killed like this poor guy.

I guess the silver lining is we all talk about safe tractor operations. And maybe somebody learns something that can save their life.
 

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If that award hold up the. You will see every tractor with a loader sold with loaded tires and a ballast box. Locally about 20 years ago, a man purchased a MF here in town. He refused to pay for the optional rollover protection. He wound up rolling the tractor and was paralyzed. He sued and won saying that the dealer knew the dangers and should not have sold him an unsafe tractor. They never sold another tractor without a rollover bar on it.
 

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Just my opinion....but a dealer needs to determine what experience a prospective buyer has. If someone outright says “I’ve never even sat on a tractor before” then they should bear the responsibility to equip the tractor with ballast.
Absurd.. with a capital A
 
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