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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys and gals,

Hey I have a fairly long driveway (1,300’), right now the gravel is mostly 21AA and crushed limestone with the fines. I have several inclines that regularly washout. The Limestone isn’t bad, but it still washes out. I see quite a few people has been using milled asphalt for their driveways.

Anybody have experience with this material? Can you grade it normally or does it lock together and you can’t grade it? Also, do you know a good gravel supply place near Howell, MI (SE Michigan). I usually use Demuse, but I don’t think they stock the Milled Asphalt.

BTW, the tractor is JD 4044R and a Woods Landplane (GSS72?)

Thanks, Scott
 

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It'll probably wash out no matter what you do unless you put in some swails and/or ditches to drain the water off to the side of the driveway. Millings will probably wash out easier than compacted gravel with dust in it.

I've been using #53 stone which is about 1-2" with lots of dust in it. It basically makes concrete when it gets wet and dries. I put that down for the last couple years to help build a better foundation and then this year used #4 which is 1-2.5" chunks with minimal dust so that it looks a little nicer. I did it this way because there were a few spots that were extremely prone to potholes so I'm hoping this will help. Seems to be alright so far.
 

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....I'd say you need to look at what is causing the washout and put in some ditching or a culvert to keep the water off of it.
Totally agree with @dodgeman, you need to have the roadway crowned with adequate runoff ditching to help carry to water.
 

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Hi guys and gals,

Hey I have a fairly long driveway (1,300’), right now the gravel is mostly 21AA and crushed limestone with the fines. I have several inclines that regularly washout. The Limestone isn’t bad, but it still washes out. I see quite a few people has been using milled asphalt for their driveways.

Anybody have experience with this material? Can you grade it normally or does it lock together and you can’t grade it? Also, do you know a good gravel supply place near Howell, MI (SE Michigan). I usually use Demuse, but I don’t think they stock the Milled Asphalt.

BTW, the tractor is JD 4044R and a Woods Landplane (GSS72?)

Thanks, Scott
What the others have said about fixing the wash out first.

As for the millings, I spread 10 yards of milled for my neighbors driveway this summer. The day it was delivered it rained and the neighbor said the truck driver didn't think he could get it to gate spread because it got wet, and he couldn't much. We let it sit a few days to dry, and using the FEL and box blade I spread it out. The box blade worked great. It spread just like gravel. The pile started about 6-8" thick. Once I got it spread down to around an inch or two thick and it sat a few days and him driving on it, it locked down pretty well. I don't think it's 100% washout proof, as I'm sure like your area, we have a lot of sand in our soil. I think the millings will do what it can and try to stay locked together, but it's at the mercy of the sand under it. After a couple months, he did tell me he was still getting a little washout in an area of main concern, but that section of his drive probably drops 20-30 feet over about 200 ft of run. He and I were thinking he may need to add some more later in that area, but for now he's happy. For the most part, it helped with the washout and he's very pleased that the dust kicked up now is almost non existent.

I can't remember the name of the place he got it from. I think it was around the Chelsea/Dexter area. Another neighbor and I were talking, and he suggested Cadillac Ashphalt in Ann Arbor. You might try Cadillac, and/or Google asphalt companies around Chelsea/Dexter/Pickiney area. If they don't have any, they might know who else to try.
 

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Every serious rain used to destroy my driveway,,,

After almost 40 years, I decided my 1,500 foot long driveway needed corrected,,



My main problem was two undersized 8" culverts,,
I replaced them with three 12" and one 15" culverts,,

The lack of adequate culverts was about 90% of my problem,,
the rest was improper grading,,

That was all corrected over a year ago,,





For the last year, my driveway resists rain damage like it is paved,,, WOOT!!
 

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my cousin who lives right above me--put millings on his driveway a couple of yrs ago. probably around 40 tons of it. used his JD track loader to run it in and pack it. then every week after that-he used a 1 gal sprayer to lightly coat the millings with diesel fuel. not a lot-just to help it lock back together. he also used his tractor trailer to roll it in too.

but just here this last hard rain we got --it got 2 ditches started in it now. lasted about well this would be the third summer for it-so......

he has a nice ditch on the upper side---but its sitting on slate-i've used my rear blade several times to try and cut it deeper over the yrs, but it still fills in-and well thats what starts the washing out down the driveway.

some day i would love to put millings down here around my parking lot--but i would go one step farther than what my cousin did---get it tar and chipped at the same time--seen a few others yrs ago do that--and theirs has last for many yrs now.
 

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Hi guys and gals,

Hey I have a fairly long driveway (1,300’), right now the gravel is mostly 21AA and crushed limestone with the fines. I have several inclines that regularly washout. The Limestone isn’t bad, but it still washes out. I see quite a few people has been using milled asphalt for their driveways.

Anybody have experience with this material? Can you grade it normally or does it lock together and you can’t grade it? Also, do you know a good gravel supply place near Howell, MI (SE Michigan). I usually use Demuse, but I don’t think they stock the Milled Asphalt.

BTW, the tractor is JD 4044R and a Woods Landplane (GSS72?)

Thanks, Scott
Well graded asphalt millings (no big chunks 2-3”) will grade fairly well with your tractor and BB-
Being wet or warm will help them. Once placed and compacted well they’ll be more durable than your 21AA as it’s got little in it to really lock it together aside from a little dust. The millings will have fines and will also over time and with heat start to stick together.

However I do agree with the other and the thought that you need to work on the cause of the washouts and fix that or no matter what surface you have it will be damaged by the water-it’s a force you cannot fight successfully forever-only work to control, divert and direct.
 

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I've used millings and they are good at resisting water up to a point. As the others said, you pretty much have to get the grade right. From what I could see about millings if water can flow under the upstream edge at all, it will take them out.

I've got a long farm road that has significant drop from one end to the other but it's not a gradual grade. I've got long slow slopes, steep slopes and flat areas but in all of them water is the issue. At the entrance, I've got water flowing out of the adjoining woods onto a curve in the road. It's an old road bed and is easily 2' lower than the adjoining woodland. I haven't spent the money to build up the road which is the correct way to fix the problem but I put about 60 tons of large rock (golf ball size) spread in that area. Water still flows but it doesn't move the rock so sediment is trapped there.

Anywhere I can, I've graded the road to take the water off. On an area with a long but not steep slope, I didn't have spots for the water to run away from the road so I put in diversion swales going to small dug out areas. Those were just a FEL bucket loader width, 2-3' deep and sloped down from the road over 10-15' or so. It's not perfect as once or twice a year, I have to clean them out but it pretty much stopped water from running down the road.

On the steepest grades, I've put in diversion ditches where ever I have an outlet. It's too steep to use just a swale so I have a combination of swale and water bars to get the water off the road. The water bars are built out of a combination of native clay/sand mix with rock mixed in. If I have to rebuild one, I"m going to use a geotextile fabric of some kind: Side by Side - Product Comparison - US Fabrics . There's another company that makes fabric with hexagonal pickets to hold rock and I might use that. I've also got larger rock on the steepest part of the road just because the clay is slippery when wet and I need something for traction. Smaller rock won't stay but the larger stuff will once it's packed in.

I acquired that property in 2010. Literally the first time I tried to drive down the road I was in a 4 wheel drive truck and was not at all sure I could make it down and back up the road. I had a good operator come in with a dozer and 6 way blade to do the initial regrading. I've done additional work since then with my little 790, FEL and rear blade. Now, I can take a car down the road even after a heavy rain. At least once a year, I need to touch up the grade and especially clean out the diversion areas but if I do that, the road stays perfectly usable. if I let the diversion ditches fill up with leaves and start trapping sediment, the road would be gone in a year or two no matter what I put on the surface.

I was on someone else's farm this week and they had a stream that crossed their road. This week it was just a nice little gentle stream that a culvert could easily handle but looking downstream it was obvious that during a heavy rain, serious water flowed. Instead of trying to put in a bridge or very large culverts, they had a concrete slab the width of the road and about 15' long and let the water flow over it. The concrete was formed on the edges so that water wouldn't get under it and judging by the age of the concrete, it had worked well for them for a long time.

I've got a similar situation but it's a much longer area that water flows over. I've put in larger rock there, baseball size and as long as the damned beavers don't build their dams there, it's fine. It's an unusual situation because water can back up from the adjoining river. Without the beaver issue, water backs up and then flows back out, no harm, no foul. When the beavers build on the upstream side water from the river overflows their dam and when the river goes back down, it can break the dam. The resulting flood can wash out the rock. Last time, I started putting larger rock on the downstream side to prevent the washout. I need to complete that project, might rent a mini excavator with thumb as picking up 75-100 lb stone isn't as much fun as it used to be and I'm not up to heavier stuff anymore. On occasion, I thin out the beavers but the river is a travel lane for them and pretty much a new group will move in as soon as I thin down an existing group. Except for the beavers, the baseball size rock works well even though loaded grain trucks have to move over that area.

Treefarmer

Treefarmer
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hi again everyone, you guys are the greatest, all very helpful, thanks so much.

Yes I agree I need to do more with the swales / ditches / crown. However, like some of you mentioned there is quite a bit of sand under the gravel which gives me headaches.

Another problem I have to deal with is the phone company / internet service has there cable barely buried on the side of the road. I already have hit it / broken it several times try to put in decent ditches. They come out an fix it for free, but it's a PITA. With the internet down, I can't read GTT or talk to you guys, and now that's serious stuff!

But it does sound like the asphalt milling might be better than the 21AA or limestone. So I'll re-grade it, make the ditches better and try the asphalt mills instead of the 21AA.

Thanks again everyone!
 

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Just a thought on the asphalt, I have read people who have used asphalt would never do it again, as it ends up all over the place including their homes.

I’m a big fan of limestone as a top coat. Personally I believe you need to start with a better sub base with larger material, then add a road base material with a soil component that allows compaction (use a compactor) then top coat with limestone, use water and again a compactor.

With a proper sub base, followed with a road base material that is crowned for drainage, compacted with water and a top coat of limestone that is again crowned and compacted, you should have very few issues in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Just a thought on the asphalt, I have read people who have used asphalt would never do it again, as it ends up all over the place including their homes.

I’m a big fan of limestone as a top coat. Personally I believe you need to start with a better sub base with larger material, then add a road base material with a soil component that allows compaction (use a compactor) then top coat with limestone, use water and again a compactor.

With a proper sub base, followed with a road base material that is crowned for drainage, compacted with water and a top coat of limestone that is again crowned and compacted, you should have very few issues in the future.
That's a good point, I would think the loose asphalt would stick to the bottom of your shoes and make a mess on the carpet. If I did use it would be far away from the house. At the entrance off the main dirt road.

I do agree with you, I do like the limestone with the fines, it packs down far better that 21AA. I had about +30 yards of it brought in last year for my pole barn approach, it worked out well. We've just had a ton of bad thunder storms and a ton of rain, which doesn't do the driveway any good at all.

Thanks, Scott
 
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