Green Tractor Talk banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've been fighting a mid PTO shaft oil leak for months on my 855 tractor. For numerous reason, I have not yet been able to make the required seal repairs. Without going into all the details, I just want to pass on to other members my recent experience with Lucas Hydraulic Stop Leak & System Booster. This is in no way an endorsement of the product or a suggestion that you use this product in your tractor's hydraulic system. This is simply a statement on my own experience.

I have a badly worn oil seal at the mid mount PTO shaft. I would lose about two gallons of hydraulic oil leaking out at the shaft after running the mid mount 72" mower over about 2-2 1/2 acres of grass & weeds. I saw a bottle of Lucas Oil additive for gas engines. I got interested in the product & went to their website (just google Lucas oil) to look at the product. On the site I found they offered a Hydraulic System Stop Leak for worn seals & leaky systems. I decided to try the product to see if it would reduce the size of the leak & Low Vis oil loss.

I bought a gallon of the Lucas & it was expensive. Paid $33. & change with the tax. Got it home & opened up the bottle & really got cold feet over using it. The stuff is dyed red & it is really really thick like Molasses. Compared to the Low Vis hydraulic oil that's in the system, it makes you think about what will this heavy stuff do in the system. Then I also questioned why am I shelling out $33. for a gallon of this stuff when Deere Low Vis oil here is $18 a gallon. Anyway I decided to put it in. On the first try, I put in a full gallon of the stuff & then toped off the oil level with about a half gallon of Low Vis to bring the level up to full on the dipstick.

Went out & cut 2.5 acres of weeds about a foot tall & thick. Got done with no issues from the use of the Lucas. Parked the tractor & kept an eye on the leak. Noticed that I still had the leak but it was now leaking slower & less oil loss. So I waited & watched over several days. Then I decided to try again with Lucas. I installed another gallon of the stuff & again toped off the system with Low Vis oil. Went out and mowed the same 2.5 acres, parked the tractor & the leak has fully stopped for now. I don't know if the leak will return, but right now it's gone. I AM not suggesting that using Lucas Oil will be a good thing long term. There is no magic substitute that can replace a full mechanical repair.

The Lucas product, for now is helping me until I can get to the repair. Based on my experience, the product takes some time to work its way into the seal & swell it up to stop the leak. Also the 855 holds 5 gallons of Low Vis oil. It took me two gallons of the Lucas installed to stop the leak. Also I have no way of determining if the Lucas changed the viscosity of the Low Vis oil, however examination by feel of the oil & visual examination it appears not to have changed the Low Vis BASED ON THE TWO GALLONS OF LUCAS I INSTALLED.

If MY oil seal had a tear in it, I doubt that Lucas or any additive would have worked. So what I believe I have is a badly worn oil seal at the PTO shaft. Keep in mind that using Lucas is just a temporary treatment AND NOT a repair. But sometimes a Band Aid can save the day.

A word of caution- I had a difficult time locating the product in my area. You will not find this stuff at your local Wal-Mart or Auto Parts store for the most part. This product is specifically labeled for use in HYDRAULIC SYSTEMS. Do not use the Lucas stop leak that is designed for gas engines. The Lucas I used is For hydraulic systems. I finally found it at a large NAPA Store & machine shop about 12 miles from my house. If you can't find the stuff, contact Lucas for dealer help. Maybe you can order it direct from them?

For now-its working & I'm not having any issues in my transaxle beyond the leak. So I guess the Lucas is safe to use & while really thick it appears to mix well with Deere Low Vis. However I don't know how much Lucas you can put into the system safely. I suppose you could call Lucas and ask if you have questions on how much you can safely use. Lastly, I'm just stating my experience with the product, which so far has been positive.

Maddog
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,228 Posts
Used some of the power steering stop leak in an 02 Subaru with a noisy steering rack. It would moan when turning to the left. Especially when cold. Didn't use the whole small bottle.

Tried the fuel system cleaner in my 01 Wrangler. Immediately it got hard to start especially when cold. After multiple tanks of gas things got back to normal. When I bought the Lucas it was buy one get one free. After starring at the bottle on my shelf for months I stupidly installed it. Went right back to hard starting. Same as last time.

So I guess you win some and you lose some. lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,969 Posts
Hiya,

I have never had good luck with Lucas products, mainly the fuel additive after a few tankfuls will cause Ford O2 sensors to report lean to the ECU which will then attempt to trim the mixture but run out of range then turn on the check engine light.

As far as leaky seals, I would just suck it up and fix the seal. "Stop leak" additives are really "Seal swellers" and will affect every seal and o-ring in whatever they are placed in, potentially causing other issues that you didn't have before.

The old timers used a number of "additives" to stop leaks in seals, brake fluid and Lestoil being the most popular. Of course, these were the people that would also get to repair the engine/trans after it stopped working from the "additive". These same people most likely invented the Popsicle stick clutch disk repair and the "pack the differential with grease repair" for used car dealers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
741 Posts
A tractor mechanic friend swears by "Blue Devil" products. Apparently this company offers a range of stop-leak products. I've never tried any of these, just passing this info along.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Hiya,

I have never had good luck with Lucas products, mainly the fuel additive after a few tankfuls will cause Ford O2 sensors to report lean to the ECU which will then attempt to trim the mixture but run out of range then turn on the check engine light.

As far as leaky seals, I would just suck it up and fix the seal. "Stop leak" additives are really "Seal swellers" and will affect every seal and o-ring in whatever they are placed in, potentially causing other issues that you didn't have before.

The old timers used a number of "additives" to stop leaks in seals, brake fluid and Lestoil being the most popular. Of course, these were the people that would also get to repair the engine/trans after it stopped working from the "additive". These same people most likely invented the Popsicle stick clutch disk repair and the "pack the differential with grease repair" for used car dealers.
Hi- Now I'm not trying to start a war here, but after reading your post, I felt I have to clarify a couple of points with you.
First I do not have any long time experience with Lucas products & I can only comment on the one & only product I used Lucas Hydraulic system stop leak. In my OP I clearly stated that I was not endorsing any product or suggesting that the product was a permanent fix over a mechanical repair. Read my post on this. Yes, stop leak products work by swelling the seal. Do they do harm to good seals or other components? I really don't know if they do. Is there data or proof of that with the product I used? As I stated in my OP I am unable to get down to making the mechanical repair needed. The stop leak is an interim measure. Its like wrapping your cut arm in a bath towel so you don't bleed out on the way to the O.R.

As far as "sucking it up" I did that at the same time Deere was Sucking out $36+ tax for two gallons of Low Vis every time I cut two acres of weeds. My equipment is well maintained & not abused. But right now I am in a situation with projects & time constraints that simply don't allow me to get to the needed mechanical repair. As far as the people who invented the stop leak being the same people who invented the "Popsicle stick clutch repair & "pack the differential with grease repair", both of which I have never herd of before, I think that's a little over the top & very cynical. But maybe you have had some bad experiences with products of this nature & they failed. Maybe the application was wrong. All I am doing is just passing on my experience so far with my particular situation. Your situation & results may be different. As they say in the legal commercials "every case is different" your results may not be the same. Thanks for allowing me to clarify my original post.

:flag_of_truce:
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,464 Posts
...for two gallons of Low Vis every time I cut two acres of weeds.
No amount of any leak stop additive can fix a two gallon leak in the amount of time it takes to mow two acres (two hours maybe?). That's a heavy leak.

Hi- Now I'm not trying to start a war here, but after reading your post, I felt I have to clarify a couple of points with you.... I think that's a little over the top & very cynical.
I didn't see Tom's post in any way cynical. I found it helpful and insightful really. I am familiar with the repairs he's talking about and can relate. He was trying to help you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
994 Posts
Id be carefull with adding anything that is not the proper oil. Changing the seal after this removes the,"band aide" on the seal but not the remnants of it thru out the system when your done with the seal repair. I would check next what the,"post op" is. There might be a means of flushing things after you replace the seal. Hopefully when you get to it, it will be smooth sailing. At this point it's done, so now you have to figure out how to get, "gorilla glue" out of the hydro jacket.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Id be carefull with adding anything that is not the proper oil. Changing the seal after this removes the,"band aide" on the seal but not the remnants of it thru out the system when your done with the seal repair. I would check next what the,"post op" is. There might be a means of flushing things after you replace the seal. Hopefully when you get to it, it will be smooth sailing. At this point it's done, so now you have to figure out how to get, "gorilla glue" out of the hydro jacket.
I agree. My Manual says to never mix Low-vis with Hi-vis.

Plus where is all that leaked oil going? You have a water well?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
568 Posts
if it works for you great but how much is a new seal and how hard is it to replace? cant be that hard. just keep in mind a damaged or worn seal can and will cut a groove on the shaft.. so if its damaging the shaft a new seal wont help you will need a new shaft and seal + fluid. just something to keep in mind.

so all the fluid you have lost and the 70$ in lucas since the leak started you probally could have done the seal job 10x over. as you know fluid is big coin and thats if your lucky and the shaft is ok. their pretty hard shafts so small chance its grooved but why chance it..:gizmo:

if you dont have time to fix it in all this time thats an excuse. you make your own time..and if you got time to run around buying and finding fluid you could have replaced the seal already. maybe its time for a brand new tractor.if you dont have time for repairs ect on a old one.:kidw_truck_smiley:

good luck:greentractorride:
 

·
Senior GTT Super Slacker
Joined
·
36,624 Posts
Id be carefull with adding anything that is not the proper oil. Changing the seal after this removes the,"band aide" on the seal but not the remnants of it thru out the system when your done with the seal repair. I would check next what the,"post op" is. There might be a means of flushing things after you replace the seal. Hopefully when you get to it, it will be smooth sailing. At this point it's done, so now you have to figure out how to get, "gorilla glue" out of the hydro jacket.
:thumbup1gif:
If you can't fix it right, why bother trying to fix it wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
No amount of any leak stop additive can fix a two gallon leak in the amount of time it takes to mow two acres (two hours maybe?). That's a heavy leak.



I didn't see Tom's post in any way cynical. I found it helpful and insightful really. I am familiar with the repairs he's talking about and can relate. He was trying to help you.
Dieselshadow- Again, it worked for me. I have not lost a single drop of oil since the last 2 acre mow done on Monday. I have a pan under the transaxle & it's bone dry. What else can I say about it. It IS my result that I reported.

Tom's post. A little harsh I thought. Maybe "Cynical" was the wrong word to use. I really don't know Tom. But trying to "help" me? In that case posting his actual experience with this PTO problem would be a lot more helpful to me than telling me about Popsicle sticks & grease. Is Tom suggesting that the company that manufacturers the Lucas product are dishonest?
Again all I did was report here the results of my using the product.

I would like to ask a question here. There are so many members here, who for whatever reason become offended if you mention the use of anything that is not stamped John Deere. Why is that? This is a "learning" forum which happens to be based around JD products. But I don't think we need to be here defending all things Deere. Sorry if you think I'm offending Tom or anyone else. OK let me correct things here. Lucas stinks. Don't use it. Terrible rotten stuff. Should be banned along with all the other non JD products. OK- everyone happy again. Tractor not leaking right now. Tomorrow-who knows.

I wonder if there is a forum out there that discusses extreme anal retentive disorder. :dunno:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
As the OP- I'm really regretting that I posted anything here about this Lucas stuff. Geez- if Deere doesn't approve it, then it must be Gospel & a Pox on anyone who dares to go where Deere has forbidden. But then again, I was never for following the "Rules" & "warnings" that come with the products I purchased over 25 years ago, like the Deere 855 tractor.

Please don't let anyone know I've cut off the "DO NOT REMOVE THIS TAG" on my mattress. I'm too old to do any jail time.

:mocking:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,284 Posts
Dear Maddog,

I, for one, appreciate your post and experiences. I have no experience with any stop leak products, but I do see them on the shelves, so someone must be buying and using them. But "a man's (or woman) gotta do what a man's gotta do" sometime to get equipment running. And your particular situation may be that you just can't get that seal changed just yet. I get that.

But I also look forward to your follow up after using the stop leak. It may be OK, it may not. For me that's very valuable information to keep in my memory banks. (I do hope it works out well).

I don't think that there is any attack on you for using the product, just others writing their experiences ... just like you.

You obviously called this a "band aid", and sometimes that is all you can do until you fix it correctly, which you obviously know how to do.

So thanks for you post, and I look forward to your future comments.:bigthumb:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Dear Maddog,

I, for one, appreciate your post and experiences. I have no experience with any stop leak products, but I do see them on the shelves, so someone must be buying and using them. But "a man's (or woman) gotta do what a man's gotta do" sometime to get equipment running. And your particular situation may be that you just can't get that seal changed just yet. I get that.

But I also look forward to your follow up after using the stop leak. It may be OK, it may not. For me that's very valuable information to keep in my memory banks. (I do hope it works out well).

I don't think that there is any attack on you for using the product, just others writing their experiences ... just like you.

You obviously called this a "band aid", and sometimes that is all you can do until you fix it correctly, which you obviously know how to do.

So thanks for you post, and I look forward to your future comments.:bigthumb:
Sir- You are truly a gentleman & a scholar! You took the time to read & understand what I was trying to relay to our fellow members. I just wanted to pass on the experience that I was having with the Lucas product for the benefit of all.

Yes- I will update my post as I sort things out, whether they are good or bad. If my tractor blows up I will be telling all about it. YES! At times you "gotta do what you gotta do". When I was in the Navy I was an engineman on a old diesel electric submarine. During an emergency, I don't recall anyone asking "Which wrench does the manual say to use-is it the Box end wrench or the Open end." What you would normally hear...Maddog throw me that ******* wrench before we all drown in here.

:mocking:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
I have had great luck with 2 different Lucas products, their power steering additive and their auto-trans fix.

Ford power-steering pumps are known to get noisy, very noisy. On my 2000 F-350 I would change out the power steering fluid (ATF, btw) every 36,000 miles as a preventative measue. Since the pumps are aluminum, the fluid would come out all sparkly as it had quite a bit of aluminum in it. Just normal for these pumps. So one day while towing the 5th wheel, the power steering pump started it dreadful whine. Remembering a number of posts over on the ford-diesel site and how using the Lucas Power Steering fix quieted the pump down I decided to give it a try, but I am a skeptic. A added only a couple of ounces of it and the whine went away within seconds. This has been over 10 years ago and it is still going strong. No noise. No problems.

Same deal with a '99 Jeep Cherokee (XJ) I bought used with a trans that would slip slightly during shifts. I bought it with 90,000 miles on it and the trans fluid looked like it had never been changed, very dark and dirty. Since doing a power-flush will normally kill a trans like this that had not had proper maintenance, I did a normal drain & refill and new filter. Slipping was still there. I decided to try the Lucas auto-trans fix since the power-steering fix did work. I added a pint and no more slipping. I sold the Jeep with 250,000 miles on it, no trans issues on or off-road.

So these two worked, at least for me.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,464 Posts
Dieselshadow- Again, it worked for me. I have not lost a single drop of oil since the last 2 acre mow done on Monday. I have a pan under the transaxle & it's bone dry. What else can I say about it. It IS my result that I reported.

Tom's post. A little harsh I thought. Maybe "Cynical" was the wrong word to use. I really don't know Tom. But trying to "help" me? In that case posting his actual experience with this PTO problem would be a lot more helpful to me than telling me about Popsicle sticks & grease. Is Tom suggesting that the company that manufacturers the Lucas product are dishonest?
Again all I did was report here the results of my using the product.

I would like to ask a question here. There are so many members here, who for whatever reason become offended if you mention the use of anything that is not stamped John Deere. Why is that? This is a "learning" forum which happens to be based around JD products. But I don't think we need to be here defending all things Deere. Sorry if you think I'm offending Tom or anyone else. OK let me correct things here. Lucas stinks. Don't use it. Terrible rotten stuff. Should be banned along with all the other non JD products. OK- everyone happy again. Tractor not leaking right now. Tomorrow-who knows.

I wonder if there is a forum out there that discusses extreme anal retentive disorder. :dunno:
I don't know why you've seem to have taken even my post out of context. I wasn't berating you or hating on any non-JD products. None of that was intended or implied on any case. Folks are simply trying to encourage a correct repair.

I've had to use bandaids many many times. In a lot of cases these bandaids have cost me more time and money than it was worth doing in the first place. Your tractor PTO leak isn't a WW2 sub in the middle of a battle in the north Atlantic and I wasn't suggesting it was or wasn't. People were jumping on the "bandaid bandwagon." I'm one of them. The cost of using those products has been too costly for me to ever recommend them to anyone. But if it worked for you, who am I to argue with that?

There's some simple forum advice I will offer you. Ignore posts you don't like. As long as we keep it respectful, we can have disagreements. That's life. You don't have to follow anyone's advice. There's no rules saying you have to even read any posts. Just remember, it's very dificult at times to read one's intent or tone in written form. It may not at all be what the OP intended that you interpret.

All I'm saying is life is too short to worry about someone on the internet. Even though it may not seem like we are friends here at GTT at times, we are.

Let's get back to tractoring on! :greentractorride:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I don't know why you've seem to have taken even my post out of context. I wasn't berating you or hating on any non-JD products. None of that was intended or implied on any case. Folks are simply trying to encourage a correct repair.

I've had to use bandaids many many times. In a lot of cases these bandaids have cost me more time and money than it was worth doing in the first place. Your tractor PTO leak isn't a WW2 sub in the middle of a battle in the north Atlantic and I wasn't suggesting it was or wasn't. People were jumping on the "bandaid bandwagon." I'm one of them. The cost of using those products has been too costly for me to ever recommend them to anyone. But if it worked for you, who am I to argue with that?

There's some simple forum advice I will offer you. Ignore posts you don't like. As long as we keep it respectful, we can have disagreements. That's life. You don't have to follow anyone's advice. There's no rules saying you have to even read any posts. Just remember, it's very dificult at times to read one's intent or tone in written form. It may not at all be what the OP intended that you interpret.

All I'm saying is life is too short to worry about someone on the internet. Even though it may not seem like we are friends here at GTT at times, we are.

Let's get back to tractoring on! :greentractorride:
I don't think anyone was being disrespectful. Maybe I lack the education to properly express myself. I don't think I need anyone to "encourage" or lead me to make the correct choice in this matter. I clearly stated in the OP that I did not regard the use of a Lucas product to be superior over a mechanical repair. Tell me in what other way could I have made the point any clearer to my fellow members? Yet almost everyone disregarded that part of my post & went off on the fact I used a product not to their liking or not specified by the great JD Co. Almost everyone ignored the fact that I was just passing on to them the BENEFIT of my experience.

Yes, I agree that the "bandaid" fix could be more costly than the proper repair. And in my case-YES, the repair parts are a lot cheaper in this case than using the bandaid. But for reasons that I have already & clearly explained, I stated why I went down the bandaid path & I am not going to bore you with the same information again. Go read my posts.

Let me correct you about my Navy comment. I was never in the North Atlantic. I served in the Pacific. Specifically off the North Korean coast, sea of Japan & in the Tonkin Gulf as well. On patrols from Japan down to New Zealand. I was trying to demonstrate by my remarks that there are times when you just need to get something done to get past the immediate problem. With all due respect to you, I don't know what your talking about in your remark about my PTO & a battle in the North Atlantic. You've lost me on that one.

In any case, YOU ARE RIGHT! "Let's get back to tractoring on! ". In that interest just let me ad that "Mushrooms Grow Best in the DARK. So from now on I will try not to mention anything or any process that cannot be found in the Sacred manuals of JD.

Happy Tractoring:bigbeer: P.S. I wish you could see the smile on my face right now. This thread is sounding more & more like something out of the Tucker Carlson show or the Wolf Blitzer CNN show. I hope you can see the humor in it. Amazing at times how we can get so intense over this stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
568 Posts
As the OP- I'm really regretting that I posted anything here about this Lucas stuff. Geez- if Deere doesn't approve it, then it must be Gospel & a Pox on anyone who dares to go where Deere has forbidden. But then again, I was never for following the "Rules" & "warnings" that come with the products I purchased over 25 years ago, like the Deere 855 tractor.

Please don't let anyone know I've cut off the "DO NOT REMOVE THIS TAG" on my mattress. I'm too old to do any jail time.

:mocking:
well im pretty sure your 855 tractor was made by yanmar they where nice enough to paint it green for jd. lol so you can only really use yanmar fluids thats most likely why you developed the leak in the first place using jd fluids in a yanmar:banghead:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,326 Posts
What tractor?

Oh..I see - buried in the text - 855. Does the 855 have a hydro trans?
Yes. Anything from that generation that ends in "55" is hydro. Anything that ends in "50" is a manual gear transmission.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top