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Discussion Starter #1
I'm quickly working myself deeper and deeper into a rabbit hole with this - I need some help!

Situation - I went to have a tire repaired at Wal-Mart this morning and they said they couldn't do it after having it in their shop. They said the lug nuts were siezed and couldn't get them off with their impact wrench.

Some history - the last 2 times I had my tires rotated during service at the Ford garage they said they had a problem both times. About 1.5 years ago they had to replace 2 lug nuts after they were destroyed trying to remove them. Last time they said the tech broke 2 impact sockets trying to get them off.

What I have - when my 2009 F-150 was new, I had a set of wheels/tires from my previous truck that I used as a winter set. Since I can't swap them out myself anymore I have been running them all year for ~4 years now. They are 18" OEM Ford aluminum wheels from a 2003 or 2004 F-150 that I bought used.

When I bought these wheels I also bought a set of lug nuts to use with them - they were brand new OEM take-offs. They look like this:

IMG_0202.JPG

And here is a pic of my stock lug nut:

IMG_0019.JPG

The reason I got the shorter non-chrome lug nuts is because these extra wheels have covers over the studs and figured the long chrome lug nuts would be too long.

So...what is happening is that the lug nuts are tightening themselves on the studs. I asked at the Ford garage each time about proper torque and they assured me that they do it correctly. Even so - 150 ft lbs of torque just seems excessive but that is what is called for.

After what happened today I had a thought. Maybe these lug nuts I bought (the short ones) are steel and I am having a reaction between the nuts and wheel becuase of being dissimilar metals. Is this possible?

I haven't compared the face of each lug nut closely yet - but that might be irrevelant if the face on the different wheels are different.

And my rabbit hole - the more I research the further I get into this. How can anyone who would buy aftermarket wheels know exactly what lug nuts were proper? Do they have different angles to the face for different wheels?

My options at this point - the tires are down to 6 & 7 32nd. I was planning on running them down to as close to 3/32 as I could. I was just going to leave them be and fill the tire every other week when I go to town. But if I end up with a flat on the road I am screwed.

I am 90% sure I can get the lug nuts off with my 4' breaker bar/pipe. Should I break them all free then put some anti-sieze on the faces? I have the feeling this is a no-no......
 

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At this point, I would buy new tires, put them on the original rims, and buy
Motorcraft lug nuts.
Basically go back to factory.
 

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Dissimilar metals corrosion is a possibility, but I'm really curious about the torque. My F-350 only calls for 140 ft/lbs, it seems strange that your 150 would be higher. Check the owners manual and make sure that's right.

It's possible that repeated over torquing could have stretched the lug studs, causing the nuts to be difficult to get off.

The nuts are seizing to the studs or the wheels. A little anti seize on the face of the nut or the chamfer in the holes on the wheels would help if they're the problem. If you remove a wheel thread the nut on the bare stud and see if it goes easily.
 

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I agree with 56FG about the dissimilar metals. The later models do have a higher torque requirement. My 2011 F250 requires 165 lbs torque. However, this is for factory wheels. Any aftermarket wheels are possibly different. I suggest you find the proper lug nuts for each set of wheels and only use them for that wheel.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #6
At this point, I would buy new tires, put them on the original rims, and buy
Motorcraft lug nuts.
Basically go back to factory.
That is an option I might very well go with - and won't cost me a cent. I have my stock wheels/tires/lug nuts in the barn and the tires are only ~1/3 worn. I am just being obssessive about getting the most use out of this set before I have to retire them.

Dissimilar metals corrosion is a possibility, but I'm really curious about the torque. My F-350 only calls for 140 ft/lbs, it seems strange that your 150 would be higher. Check the owners manual and make sure that's right.

It's possible that repeated over torquing could have stretched the lug studs, causing the nuts to be difficult to get off.

The nuts are seizing to the studs or the wheels. A little anti seize on the face of the nut or the chamfer in the holes on the wheels would help if they're the problem. If you remove a wheel thread the nut on the bare stud and see if it goes easily.
I have verified the torque a few times both in my manual and with the Ford service department. I kept double checking simce it sounds pretty crazy.

So with that said, they have never been over torqued - only myself and the Ford garage has ever touched the truck. But this is why I have to keep a 4' cheater pipe in the truck - there is no way I could remove the nuts with the factory wrench.

Over the next couple days I will investigate by removing a couple nuts and see how things look. If the nuts thread easily all the way I may do the anit-sieze thing on all of them.

I do remember when I have removed these wheels before myself. With the 4' breaker bar, there is a noticable loud "crack" when they break loose. I don't remeber this happening with the stock setup. This adds to my thoughts of corrosion on the seats.
 

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Wow 150 FT/LBS seems too much for a F150. I could understand 80-100 Max.

My 3500 is like 56FG's at 140 FT/LBS.
I found this info on-line:

F150 (12mm stud) 1988-00 *100 ft-lbs
F150 (14mm stud) 2000-08 *150 ft-lbs
 

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CT,
Look into a small air compressor that plugs into your 12V outlet.
They are slow but they do work, and are cheap. I've used one and
may save you and your wife a headache someday. Just throw it in the
rear somewhere and it's always there when you need it.
 

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With the 4' breaker bar, there is a noticable loud "crack" when they break loose. I don't remeber this happening with the stock setup. This adds to my thoughts of corrosion on the seats.
Sounds normal. I have experienced the exact same sound with various vehicles when removing lug nuts. Mostly with steel wheels.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
CT,
Look into a small air compressor that plugs into your 12V outlet.
They are slow but they do work, and are cheap. I've used one and
may save you and your wife a headache someday. Just throw it in the
rear somewhere and it's always there when you need it.
I've thought about this, but....I have an electric impact that is supposed to be good for 150 ft lbs and won't touch these nuts. To have something powerfull enough would get kind of costly. Also thought about these new cordless jobs the guys have been talking about which I think are good for 300-400 ft lbs but don't want to invest $400 into a tool for "just in case". I'll pay the fee for AAA before that.
 

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Yeah I looked up the torque value a 150 is correct.

Are the lug nuts Ford brand and are they the ones called out for those wheels? If the bevel is off that can cause a problem. Dissimilar metals is a possibility but it isn't high on my list.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yeah I looked up the torque value a 150 is correct.

Are the lug nuts Ford brand and are they the ones called out for those wheels? If the bevel is off that can cause a problem. Dissimilar metals is a possibility but it isn't high on my list.
The lug nuts I bought were Ford OEM take-offs from the same model year that the wheels are from. So not 100% certain, but pretty sure.

Also - I didn't have this problem until the last 1.5 years or so. I changed the wheels/tires out myself every spring/fall and all was fine besides overcoming the 150 ft lbs of torque. This is why I am leaning toward an ongoing corrosion issue.

This is my second leaking tire which is due to the rim corroding at the bead seal area.
 

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Never, would I ever attempt to remove any stuck nut with a long bar.

You are pretty certain there is an issue.
The impact wrench will remove nuts that the 4 foot bar will break.

Impact is your friend in stuck nut removal,,
static torque is the foe,,,,
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Never, would I ever attempt to remove any stuck nut with a long bar.

You are pretty certain there is an issue.
The impact wrench will remove nuts that the 4 foot bar will break.

Impact is your friend in stuck nut removal,,
static torque is the foe,,,,
But that is just the point - they couldn't remove them today with an impact.
 

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Loosen the lug nuts with your 4 ft pipe, or impact, or have SuperMan loosen them with his fingers. Put a light coat of mol anti-sieze on the tapered face and even the threads. I've been doing that to my '96 F-250 and Alcoa wheels for TWENTY years. Those wheels were well known to stick on the hubs because they were Hubcentric. I do the wheels & studs&nuts on my '06 S40 Volvo too, aluminum wheels & iron hubs.
DISSIMILAR METALS.
 

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On my truck i probably torque to 100lb ft with a 2' breaker bar. My 650lb ft impact often fails on 1-2 of the 8 after a year. Then it does take a 4' bar/pipe to break them free. I keep pipe and a breaker in my truck too.

Id use never seize. Dissimilar metal it possible but they should all steel. Stainless on hard steel wouldnt cause problems, but galvanized coatings on nuts might break down, and cause an under size thread.

Chrome gets plated on nickel, that oxodizes thin and smooth if the chome flakes off.

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk
 

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Loosen the lug nuts with your 4 ft pipe, or impact, or have SuperMan loosen them with his fingers. Put a light coat of mol anti-sieze on the tapered face and even the threads. I've been doing that to my '96 F-250 and Alcoa wheels for TWENTY years. Those wheels were well known to stick on the hubs because they were Hubcentric. I do the wheels & studs&nuts on my '06 S40 Volvo too, aluminum wheels & iron hubs.
DISSIMILAR METALS.
Hub to wheel could cause galvanic reactions. Mine are steel, but thats a reasonable thought.

Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk
 

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Galvanic corrosion occurs due to the differences in metals.

Also needed is a solution (such as water and salt) to complete the electrical connection.

An example is steel and zinc. They are far apart on the chart, the zinc protects the steel.
Look at how close aluminum is to zinc on this chart.



Galvanic corrosion should not be the culprit,,,

A lot depends on what the alloy of aluminum is,,, :dunno:

Personally, I would try to keep my nuts dry,, :knownothing:
I would move to somewhere they do not dump a quarter million pounds of salt on the road,, per township,,,
:laugh:
 

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Stan, this won't solve your problem but....
We bought a 2002 Chrysler Town and Country AWD after having several Subarus. The first thing I did come fall was purchase 4 rims out of the junkyard and mounted snow tires on them. They were aluminum rims off of Dodge Caravan. We had stock aluminum rims on the van with the summer tires. I changed the tires myself because I had the time and big garage. I used a breaker bar and torqued to spec. I only ever had the one stock set of lug nuts and put some clean motor oil on the stud threads. After a couple winters, I was having the same problem you are. About the third year I broke a stud right off trying to get the lugs off in the fall. I took it to my mechanic and never looked back. However, over the course of the years (we had that van 11 years) my mechanic broke countless studs and once had to cut his socket off the stud. He dreaded having to change the tires on that van. I always attributed it to corrosion. That road salt is just another tax we pay in the form of wear and tear on our vehicles, in my opinion. Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
OK - I feel better about using anti-seize on them now. I honestly feel this will help - but I've been known to easily get tunnel vision with a problem like this and why I asked for help.

Yeah CADplans - plenty of salt and water here.

I wondered about the anti-seize because - I remember reading some threads (don't know if it was here or elsewhere) about NOT using any lubricant on wheel stud threads - how it will affect the torque values and such other things that went way over my head. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't going to loose a wheel going down the road. I am going to be putting it on the mating surfaces of the lug nuts anyway.

rydplrs & CP - I feel better now - I'm not the only one!

Powerstroke - I've had to use anti-seize on the backs of the wheels on our VW's. They would become about welded on the hubs.

OK - over the next few days when my arms are up to it I'm going to get those nuts off, add some anti-seize, and take it from there. At this point I have to do this so I don't have a problem on the road. I know as these tires get worn toward their minimum there is more and more chances of getting a flat. I have to be able to get them off on the side of the road.

Worst case scenario is to just give up and put the factory set on and be done with it.
 
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