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Discussion Starter #1
I get great help from my in-laws....lol
They used my 4044R and checked the hydraulic/transmission fluid. It was low. This is a whole other concern I haven't tackled. They found engine oil low as well as hyd/tran fluid, like not even on the dipstick. They added some unknown amount of motor oil. The oil is black/dirty so I will change it. No problem. Well also change air filters as they also helped me by blowing the air filters out with an air hose. Probably the reason my oil is black. All the little tears in air filters letting dirt in. Ugh.
Now my real dilemma. They added 3-5 gallons of hydraulic fluid that meets j20a or b spec not the required j20c or d. I don't know how to get all of it out of system. My initial thought is buy the cheapest fluid I can find that meets the spec. Drain it and fill with correct fluid. Run it a bit to dilute whatever of the incorrect fluid is left then drain again and fill with the John Deere fluid and new hydraulic and transmission filters.

Would you change the filters twice with the fluid? Should I crack lines and attempt to drain? Would you think my plan is adequate. It has been ran a few hours with mixed fluid. The tractor has just over 150 hours on it.


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Discussion Starter #2
I was naive enough not to be checking my fluid levels on this new tractor. Bad idea.


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Interesting problem. Since you have a strong desire to get all of the fluid out, maybe you can do what I did when I converted my Allison transmission to all synthetic.

I hooked up a hose to one of the ports that went to the trans cooler and ran the engine for short periods until the transmission was dry. It never got hot and I never ran it more than 20-30 seconds at a time. I was able to pump almost 5 gallons out of it. If you start with a cold tractor I do not think you will have any issues doing this because whatever heat you build up in the hydro should not be enough to cook it. I am not familiar enough with a 4 series, where is the lowest point in the trans? If the drain plug is the lowest then open it up and go do something else for a few hours while things drain.

Another method you might want to try is to get an oil drain vacuum. I think Northern sells them. You can suck all the hydraulic fluid out of the fill port. Then change your filters and refill with the correct fluid. If the tractor has been ran for a few hours already and you have not experienced any issues then I would not be as concerned. Sounds like they ran compatible fluid just an older version of it? The bonus with this method is now you have a new tool to use in the future!

Anyway you go about this, you will be spending some good money on hydraulic fluid. I would try and find the method where you only have to drain it once and replace with new stuff once. Same with the filters. Remember this is a tractor not a helicopter so if you have a small amount of contamination of old and new fluid it most likely will not amount to anything, especially if it has been ran for several hours like this already.
 

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I would be concerned about why your oil and hydraulic fluid was low and only 150 hours on it? I have 278 hours and have never added oil or hydraulic fluid to my JD4044M Tractor since I owned it. I have added a about a quart of antifreeze when I got it home. I added some hydraulic fluid when I broke a steering hose in my driveway after repairing it. Also changed the oil/filter at 250 hours. Those don't count, nothing at all leaks on my tractor so far to date.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I am concerned about low levels but have to sort this out first. Not a single drop of fluid in the tractor or where I park it.


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drain and don't worry

Personally, I would just change it as you would normally, change the filters and keep an eye on it. I might change it again in 50 hours or so but not worry too much.

It's not great having the "wrong" fluid in there but changing it and keeping an eye on fluid levels will probably take care of it.

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I am concerned about low levels but have to sort this out first. Not a single drop of fluid in the tractor or where I park it.


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If I am right you have a lot of hydraulic driven stuff to add on yours? In doing so you may have a lot of that missing fluid inside of them or and little leak on couplings ect while using the equipment? Being low could be the tractor was not flat or the bucket raised read wrong etc. Personally I don't think the little extra fluid will hurt anything except your under warrantee still and for what the tractor is worth I would change out the fluid and just leave it at that and not worry about draining the whole system dry. Your going to do it at 500 hours again anyways. I won't tell you what I poured in My 1967-69 MF 135 Tractor Hydraulic System, I will say I have poured oil, hydraulic fluid ect. I used old oil in the crankcase, in the transmission for a while any fluid I could afford. Only fluid that was right was the steering hydraulics and radiator fluids. Owned the tractor over 13 years and personally put over 5,000 hours on it and it was up to 11,000 hours when I sold it running just fine but the rear seal was still leaking after that 13 years I owned it. Original Perkins 3 Cylinder Gas Engine & Clutch too.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Gear boxes are a different animal than hydrostatic transmissions.


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Oh don't put junk in your tractor I would never do this to my 4044M just saying I have mixed stuff over the years in some old tractors. These technical new tractors have a lot of fancy close tolerance parts requiring perfect lubrication to last and I am not taking any chances yet on mine.
 

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I'd get on JD parts and get all the filter info, then order every thing from Green farm parts on here. Change crankcase oil and filter.

I'd change the HYD fluid once with a new filter, and clean the strainer on the back if this machine has one.

Then I wouldn't neglect basic maintenance again. Clean the radiator while you're at it.:thumbup1gif:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Have cleaned the rad a few times by necessity. Nothing neglected. No way a tractor with 150 hrs should be losing any fluids.


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Have cleaned the rad a few times by necessity. Nothing neglected. No way a tractor with 150 hrs should be losing any fluids.


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I don't think your tractor is losing fluids unless you have leak but you stated it doesn't. I also do not think you have neglected anything. JD quite often ships from the factory low. My hydro fluid was low when I did the 50 hour service. Roughly 4 gallons came out but it took 5 to fill it. You are not the first nor will you be the last to have low engine oil and hydraulic fluid levels on a brand new tractor. If you didn't get any idiot lights on the dash or have funky hydraulic operations then I think it's fine and you have nothing to worry about. Just one of those deals. :greentractorride:
 

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Did you add any hydraulic-driven implements? They can draw down the tractor's fluid level as they fill their cylinders initially.
 

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Interesting problem. Since you have a strong desire to get all of the fluid out, maybe you can do what I did when I converted my Allison transmission to all synthetic.

I hooked up a hose to one of the ports that went to the trans cooler and ran the engine for short periods until the transmission was dry. It never got hot and I never ran it more than 20-30 seconds at a time. I was able to pump almost 5 gallons out of it. If you start with a cold tractor I do not think you will have any issues doing this because whatever heat you build up in the hydro should not be enough to cook it. I am not familiar enough with a 4 series, where is the lowest point in the trans? If the drain plug is the lowest then open it up and go do something else for a few hours while things drain.

Another method you might want to try is to get an oil drain vacuum. I think Northern sells them. You can suck all the hydraulic fluid out of the fill port. Then change your filters and refill with the correct fluid. If the tractor has been ran for a few hours already and you have not experienced any issues then I would not be as concerned. Sounds like they ran compatible fluid just an older version of it? The bonus with this method is now you have a new tool to use in the future!

Anyway you go about this, you will be spending some good money on hydraulic fluid. I would try and find the method where you only have to drain it once and replace with new stuff once. Same with the filters. Remember this is a tractor not a helicopter so if you have a small amount of contamination of old and new fluid it most likely will not amount to anything, especially if it has been ran for several hours like this already.



As long as the transmission isn't under load, pumping it out, then shutting it off immediately when fluid stops coming out, is actually a common OEM procedure to flush transmissions.


OP:

New implements will draw down your fluid.

Oils do break down and "thin out".

Diesel engine oil will burn off some, on top of thinning down.

Coolant will evaporate some.

All normal; also why a regular check is important (I do mine when it's raining and have no use for the tractor that day.)
 

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I get great help from my in-laws....lol
They used my 4044R and checked the hydraulic/transmission fluid. It was low. This is a whole other concern I haven't tackled. They found engine oil low as well as hyd/tran fluid, like not even on the dipstick. They added some unknown amount of motor oil. The oil is black/dirty so I will change it. No problem. Well also change air filters as they also helped me by blowing the air filters out with an air hose. Probably the reason my oil is black. All the little tears in air filters letting dirt in. Ugh.
Now my real dilemma. They added 3-5 gallons of hydraulic fluid that meets j20a or b spec not the required j20c or d. I don't know how to get all of it out of system. My initial thought is buy the cheapest fluid I can find that meets the spec. Drain it and fill with correct fluid. Run it a bit to dilute whatever of the incorrect fluid is left then drain again and fill with the John Deere fluid and new hydraulic and transmission filters.

Would you change the filters twice with the fluid? Should I crack lines and attempt to drain? Would you think my plan is adequate. It has been ran a few hours with mixed fluid. The tractor has just over 150 hours on it.


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Let me start with the hydraulic oil because I've just done some research on the subject for my old 855 tractor.
J20b spec is considered to be obsolete & is now replaced by J20c or J20D. So if they filled it with J20b you should be ok. I don't know what J20a spec is. J20b,c & d are Low Viscosity oils. This classification comes from the ISO (International Standards Organization). They use two viscosity numbers to identify these oils. One is 68 The other is 32. I'm sorry but I can't recall which number is the hi viscosity & which is low. I'm an old fart. In any case it sounds like you need Low Vis oil. If they refilled your tractor with a generic oil, the label should state if it meets the J20b,c,or d spec in which case you will be ok. The thing you do not want to do is mix the viscosity of the oils. That is to say do not mix a Low vis oil with a hi vis oil. The reason being is that when you do that, you will change the oils wt. rating & that can cause problems.

The difference between all those specs, J20b, c.& d generally ad up to changes in the additives & other characteristics of the oil. However the important thing is that they are ALL Low-Vis oils & are all interchangeable.

If they added as much oil as you state, I would be really concerned about that. Either this machine was improperly serviced to begin with or you have a major leak or leaks to look for. And that much loss of oil from a leak or leaks would by highly detectable on you floor & on the machine.

Engine oil. Here again why is the oil level so low to begin with? Black dirty oil. Personally, I would not confuse your dirty oil with a torn Air filter. They are Two separate systems. Your engine oil system is a closed system. Has no real relationship to the Air filtration system. I would be super concerned about running this machine with tears or pin holes in the filter. The damage that can occur from having a torn air filter can be catastrophic. You will have fine particles of dust & grit being sucked into you engine at very high rate of travel & pressure. When these particles hit your cylinder walls & pistons, they will leave scratches & gouges which can cause your engine to lose cylinder compression, power, etc. It's like a microscopic meteorite hitting an astronaut's space suit & sucking out his oxygen & suit pressure while he is being sucked out a hole the size of a pin prick. You can destroy an entire engine in no time at all, or be faced with a major rebuild. All it takes is a few grains of hard sand & it could spell game over.

What's the lesson here for you. Never give your car keys or your tractor keys to anyone.
 

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If it were me, Id do a complete oil and filter change, both engine and hydro, using JD fluids and filters.
Then Id get a new air filter, and replace the one thats ruined.
As was stated above, thats not why your engine oil is black. Most diesels properly maintained have coal black oil just a few seconds after an oil change. Its the nature of a diesel.
After that, figure out where the fluid went, if it went anywhere, youll see it. Could be like others said, in other implements that use the hydraulics.

After all that, stop loaning equipment to people.
If they arent paying for it, you sure will be, as evidenced here.
I learned a long time ago not to loan things out. Every time I have, its come back worse off than when it left, no matter what it was.
Even after I learned this, I let a guy borrow my trailer. Old neighbor/friend. I figured how can he hurt a trailer by moving a few household things on it? He was moving at the time.
Well, I found out. Somehow managed to mangle a fender. Tried to hide it from me too.
Now nothing goes to anyone I dont trust, and that list includes a whopping 2 people.
And it doesnt include anything with an engine on it. Anyone that even asks to borrow anything like that gets a flat out no. If I have time, Ill offer to bring it over and operate it, but no way Im loaning out anything like that to anyone.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I changed engine oil and filter. Trans/hyd flyid and trans and hyd filters changed. New air filters. All John Deere. $400. My n-laws I cannot tell no. I borrowed their tractor many times before having my own. They would pay the cost if I told them. They certainly meant well. As the did with bad fuel a few months back. Also costly.


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