[Sailboat Cove WI]

Hello All,

I am brand new to this community and was seeking some advice.

Here is the backstory:
My grandfather owned a Model B, and upon his passing 5 years ago, it has sat in the garage. I have always held both him and the tractor close to my heart and want to get it up and running again. I am fairly knowledgeable when working with engines, but lack the experience some of you are sure to have!

I do not know the exact model of the tractor - I know it is a B, but not specifically the year it was produced. My grandfather restored it before I was born and accidentally erased some of the serial numbers with a sand blaster. All that is readable now is "B ---38382". It does not have an electric start, just the flywheel to crank on.

The Problem:
Plain and simple - It won't start. I removed the carburetor to see if it was gummed up, and it was not. I know I have spark, compression, and fuel. I open the throttle and close the choke and turn the motor over with absolutely nothing to show for it except a sore back and the smell of gas. I have snooped around the forum to find any potential answers and haven't really seen anything that directly relates to my situation.

Please reach out if you have any suggestions on how to get her started again!

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

Can you post a photo of it? That would help identify the year. The years run in ranges, Early unstyled, early styled, war years, late styled.

On mine, which is a 1939, once you smell gas, it’s flooded. Maybe try only closing the choke halfway. The mag could be weak. The points and condenser could be weak. Are you checking the spark with the plug out and laying against the head. It should be a pretty visible spark.

Check YouTube for how to time a model B and make sure you hear the mag click when it’s supposed to.

I have attached a photo of the tractor. Would the timing go off if it just sat in the garage for 5 years? I checked the plugs as you said, and they do spark well every time. What would the solution be if it was the mag or points and condenser?

Thank you for the fast response!

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

If you got spark and fuel then you should get something. Try pull starting it . I had an A (hand start)and it would give me fits and if I pulled started it it would fire right up especially if it had been sitting.

I am unfamiliar with pull starting a tractor. Would that be attaching a strap to the front and driving away with the tractor in gear? What would be a good speed to pull start? My biggest concern is that I will not be able to store the tractor properly in the garage once it rolls down the grade and fails to start.

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

That is a really nice tractor. It’s an early unstyled and almost looks like a short frame, which would be 1935 or 1936. No, the timing wouldn’t change just sitting there, but the mag and condenser could get weak. I would start by filing the points as they could be somewhat corroded from sitting too.

Mine sat for 10 years and it ran when I parked it. It didn’t when I pulled it out of the garage. I had the carb rebuilt as it had never been apart. There was no spark at the points, so I filed them and got it to run, but it didn’t start very easy and sounded like it switched cylinders trying to decide who was going to keep it going. I bought a replacement mag from a guy in Minnesota who rebuilds them. It starts right up now.

Just a question, are you opening the brass pressure relief valves on each cylinder to start it? It makes spinning the flywheel a lot easier.

Several dumb questions:

Where is the mag located? I'm assuming that it is the black box on the right side of the tractor with the spark plug wires leading out of it.
Can I take the mag apart without permanently damaging it?
I have read about the brass pressure relief valves, but have no clue where to look. I do not think that this tractor has them, but I will look if you can give me a general location to check out.

Thank you for your help! I would love to take this out to some shows, or just around the neighborhood. I believe that this tractor has won a few awards at shows in my area when my grandfather took it out. When I get it fired up I will get some photos taken and post them here!

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

No questions are dumb. I didn’t know anything about them until I bought mine from my neighbor. His uncle bought it new in Milbank SD. I researched the Model B’s a lot.

Yes, the mag is where the plug wires connect. It’s Probably a Wico, but may be a different brand. You can take the cap off to get to the points and condenser, but I wouldn’t go any further. The coil is within the mag body.

That early, it may not have the pressure relief valves. Mine are near the spark plugs, but I’ve heard some are on the bottom of the head.

I found this thread:

Model B Compression Release - Question

New to John Deere - I dont have my tractor yet - its a 1937 Unstyled B, set to be delivered soon. Just curious - looking at videos of hand starting show a relief valve on each side. Did all the two-cyl. engines on the unstlyed B come with them? If not can you add them? Seems to me it would...

www.greentractortalk.com

I planned to take mine to shows, but never did. The interest in the old iron isn’t the same it once was, at least around here.

My 1939 when I got done restoring it in 2005.

View attachment 794712

Ok, I went out to check the mag. It is a Wico, I have attached a photo. Does that black wire look concerning? Please let me know if you see anything that looks amiss. I am currently looking at videos on how to clean the points on it. Wish me luck!

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

Yeah, the black wire looks like it got pretty hot a time or two. I got my mag from Rudy’s Rebuilt Mags in Minnesota. It looks like you’re in Wisconsin, so close by. His website. Magneto Repair, Restore, Rebuild Service
I think you can have him check yours out and rebuild as necessary or exchange it.

EDIT*
Thank you for that advice!

We have new problems, WAYYY back to the drawing table.

After filing the points, I tried to start the tractor. Got a few new noises for me this time, not popping. After spinning the flywheel a few times, it became very tight, to the point where I could not spin it. When putting pressure to try to spin it, it sounded like liquid rushing through a small opening... No clue what that is as I never encountered it in my lifetime starting the tractor with my grandfather. Plugged oil filter? Bad oil?

Pulled the spark plugs and the cylinders are full of gas.. to the point where when it turn over the flywheel, it spills out of the spark plug hole.

I also found a small plug like thing right beneath the flywheel, is that the pressure relief valve? I can provide a photo if needed. When I opened it, oil flowed out, so I am inclined to believe it is a way to check oil levels.

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

My first thought is you filled the cylinders with gas, at least enough to make it impossible to spin. Turn the gas off and pull the spark plugs and see if you can turn the flywheel then. I’d pull the coil wire completely out of the mag on both ends so you don’t get a spark. If that’s the case, you’ve got carb issues as well as possible gas in the crankcase. Be careful!

I have the garage opened up and airing out. I don't suppose I can fix the carb in house? My thoughts are adjusting the knobs at the top of the carb.

What should my next steps be? I will let the tractor sit overnight to avoid the fumes.

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

Yeah, let it sit with the gas turned off. The knobs at the top are air/fuel mix for idle and full speed under load. I have never been able to get those adjusted correctly. I opted to have my carb rebuilt versus doing it myself. It had never been apart and there’s passages than need to be cleaned out.

Your carb may be ok. Since you kept cranking without it firing, it kept feeding gas as it should. One thing you’ll find once you do get it going is it’ll burn a lot of gas. Those are all fuel which back in the day were set up to burn any cheap fuel and conserving wasn’t an issue.

Lee,

Thank you so much for the help this afternoon and evening! I will post again in the morning when everything has aired out. With your help I hope to get it going in time for my grandmother to see it when she visits.

Bryan

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

Hello All,

Seems like I will be stuck in a holding pattern for longer than I initially thought. I went out to check the cylinders this morning for fuel and still found plenty in one side. Seems like my gas shutoff valve is not working...

At any rate, the gas tank is empty. Problem is, I need to leave for the cities today to work this coming week and I expect the gas will not have evaporated out by this evening. What should I do to help facilitate the evaporation of the gas over the week? Can I leave the spark plugs out and let it sit? Should the plugs stay in? Will leaving the plugs out cause the cylinders to freeze up over the course of the week?

As always, thank you for the advice!

-Bryan

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

This is a great idea. It would really help to have someone with experience see it first hand. This is when you’ll learn the most of how things work on it, how to troubleshoot and set it up correctly.
The neighbor I bought my “B“ from was a wealth of information. He also had 2 other “B’s“, an “A”, an “LA” and back then a “G”.

Oh, also the serial number you posted probably doesn’t have numbers sandblasted off. That number identifies it as a 1937.

I didn’t see your edit that the cylinders were full of gas until this morning. The carb could have issues too. The float may be out of adjustment or a piece of dirt is stuck in the needle valve letting gas just pour through. The carb is probably a DTLX-10 and you might want to look at having it rebuilt too. Sitting for 5 years is not a tractors friend, especially with today’s gas.

Keep us posted.

Thank you for that advice on the carb. I am around the Rice lake area and would be open to someone coming over to look over the tractor with me. I would like to give it an honest attempt after getting the gas out of the cylinders before doing that though.

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

That rotor button looks cruddy, I'd pull it off and wire wheel clean it. Points need to have really clean contacts. If you have access to a meter with capacitor check see what that condenser measures, should be about 0.22 to 0.47 ufd. On ohms lowest scale check from good ground to points, points closed 1 ohm or less.

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk

What/where is the rotor button? I did spend a solid amount of time with sand paper going over both of the points, and they look a lot better. I have a meter, but am not sure if it has a capacitor check. I will go and look today.

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

Leave the plugs out. I would be concerned that gas has leaked past the rings into the crankcase now. An oil change is probably next after you get all the other issues of carburetor and shutoff valve checked out and repaired.

It won’t freeze up in that short amount of time.

The rotor button is the center of the rotor. Thats where the coil power is transferred to the plugs as it rotates.

Thank you for the advice. Is it still ok to attempt to start the tractor with the potential of gas in the crank case?

And on that vein, I know my grandfather had some oil stashed away in the garage, but I don't think he has enough. If I remember correctly, it needs 12 quarts of non detergent oil? Trying to remember what your grandfather tells you when you were 13 is hard, LOL. I will do some looking to figure out what oil and how much I need.

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

OK just a thought here. My 1937 B runs on kerosene, the big tank is kerosene and the small one gallon tank is gasoline. You would start it on gas let it warm up and switch over to kerosene by switching the valve on the sediment bowl.
You might want to drain it and clean it out so you have straight gas to start it.

Yes, this is originally how the tractor was set up. However, my grandfather when restoring the tractor did not want to run kerosene in the engine. He plugged the small tank and only filled the large one with gasoline. I cannot remove the gas cap on the small tank, and the three way valve is stuck. (possibly soldered into the correct position at the time of restoration)

I did clean out the sediment bowl yesterday before even adding gas, I think it had some bad gas in it. Also when cleaning the carb, there was no varnished gas or any crud to speak of. There was some surface rust on threads, but everything looked surprisingly normal with a small amount of oxidation. This leads me to believe that the carb is not the problem, and I simply cranked it so much the engine flooded badly.

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

I wouldn’t start it with gas in the crankcase. The gas will act like a solvent and diminish the lubrication.

My neighbor said to use non detergent oil too. He claimed using detergent oil would ruin the Babbitt bearings. That doesn’t make sense to me and I’ve tried researching with no definitive answers. I have not changed mine. He had just changed it and honestly I haven’t ran it enough to get it dirty. It still looks clean and feels slick.

My gut feeling is just spinning the flywheel isn’t going to fill the cylinders and drain the tank of gas. I still suspect you’ve got something stuck in the needle valve.

Where would you recommend sending the carb? Can I take it to an auto shop and have them do it, or does it need to be more specialized.

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

Hello All,

Here is my plan for the next few weeks.
1. Purchase carb rebuild kit this week
2. Send carb into shop to get cleaned (Most likely local shop, have debated doing it myself.)
2. Purchase Autolite plugs (Anyone happen to know the correct model number?)
3. Take the mag into the shop that JDLTG recommended (No wait if I stop by in person)
4. Purchase oil change supplies
I found this link for changing the oil, does this method seem good to you? John Deere Tractors Discussion Board - 1948 model B oil change

Let me know if you have any more suggestions!

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

Hello All,

I don't know if I should start a new thread showing my progress, but I will post in this one here for now.

I finally got back up to the tractor today after a 74 hour work week. I have taken out the carb (again) and am going to tinker with it and see if I can get it in any better shape before the parts kit I ordered shows up. Tomorrow I will remove the mag to take back to the cities to get serviced.

As you can see, my Grandfather had a thing for John Deere branded things. I am using his lawn chair on wheels to sit on while removing the carb.

Carb removed from the tractor. It will most likely need to be repainted once the rebuild is over. I am partial to leaving the brass parts of it unpainted after redoing it though. Thoughts?

Hope Y'all are having a restful weekend.

-Sailboat Cove WI

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

Hello All,

Does anyone have a lead on a float for a DLTX 10 carb in and around Rice Lake, WI? Just found out that mine is full of gas with no apparent holes found.

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

Hello All,

Slight snag with the float. I can't get the brass screws out of the carb to remove the retaining pin for the float. I have tried penetrating fluid and heat with no luck. I don't want to keep messing with it as the brass keeps shaving off of the slot. Any tips? It was my first time trying heat on a bolt, maybe I am doing something wrong?

Thank you!

 

[Sailboat Cove WI]

My last post (for now)

Finally got the brass plug out by soaking in PB Blaster and using more heat. Turns out that the float had a hairline crack in it, and that it had been repaired before by my grandfather. I put some JB Weld on the crack and reassembled the carb after blowing out all the holes. I put a new needle valve and gasket in, along with new gaskets wherever possible. Reassembled the whole thing and it fired right up!

Oil change will be happening this week as well, and I will be installing a new float sometime in the future (JB Weld claims to work in gas, but you can never be too sure.)

Thank you for all of the great suggestions and information! Without you, this tractor would have been in the garage for another 10 years. I have attached photos of the tractor out by our yard sign for Y'all to see as promised. More to come as I get a better internet connection.