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All the talk about gelling diesel, kerosene, and cold weather got me thinking. I starting asking questions of a couple local fuel suppliers yesterday and today.
I went to a bulk fuel supplier (BP) in Rochester that has a bunch of pumps lined up for the general public to use. I’m not kidding when I say that they have about every fuel that you would need...1 pump of each.
Their winter diesel blend is 20% #1. I bought 6 gallons of straight #1 there.

Today I went to the local BP station in the small town near where I live, and bought 12 gallons of their winter blend. I went inside, and asked them some questions. The woman at the counter had a sheet with all the info that I was asking about. They had just reworked their blend to 50% number 1. She said the cold filter plugging temp would be -30 deg F
Their #2 with cold flow additive had a cold filter plug temp of -5 deg

Both places (both of them are BP affiliates) confirmed that kerosene and #1 were identical base stocks.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting that the 2 places (both BP) had very different winter blends, and that they are both fiddling with the ratio to meet expected local temperatures. So buying diesel from a place that sells allot is definitely important.
The blend can vary widely.
I stopped by the JD dealer and bought some extra fuel filters too. I think I’m ready for the brutal cold next week (-32 degF) weds morning...I will need to feed the cows:bigthumb:
 

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That’s interesting Arlen, nice to be able to buy the fuel you need when you need it and not trying to make your fuel what you “might” need.


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Just a general reminder, your tractor/diesel powered equipment may not tolerate the drier fuel blends. Most OEMs will tell you Kerosene is not an approved fuel. A lubrication additive may be all you need. Some will be perfectly fine running dry fuels. Most equipment nowadays won’t tolerate too much of it without some degradation or wear of the expensive fuel injection system.

Read your manual and find out what you can and can’t use. When in doubt, an additive may save your engine.
 

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Just a general reminder, your tractor/diesel powered equipment may not tolerate the drier fuel blends. Most OEMs will tell you Kerosene is not an approved fuel. A lubrication additive may be all you need. Some will be perfectly fine running dry fuels. Most equipment nowadays won’t tolerate too much of it without some degradation or wear of the expensive fuel injection system.

Read your manual and find out what you can and can’t use. When in doubt, an additive may save your engine.
What I have been saying right along DS. Who is going to be out in an open station at -35 anyway. Truck maybe, but they are just as susceptible to dry fuel, unless it is an old mechanical injection IDI. And even then not much more accepting.

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Discussion Starter #5
What I have been saying right along DS. Who is going to be out in an open station at -35 anyway. Truck maybe, but they are just as susceptible to dry fuel, unless it is an old mechanical injection IDI. And even then not much more accepting.

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John Deere says to blend kerosene for winter use, but they say to use their fuel treatment for lubricity.
Not much else you can do...#2 treated with cold flow additive can only go down to -5 or -10.
 

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My fuel supplier tells me that the common winter fuel is 30% #1 and 70% #2. That is what I bought before winter before last. This winter, I am not planning on using my tractor very much, so am trying to get buy on one tank of fuel with JD winter fuel treatment plus the OptiLube I already put in the big tank. Although it rarely gets below zero here, it did this past week. I am down to about 3/8 of a tank now, so will have to make a decision soon as to what my fuel future is for the rest of the winter. I am thinking about going ahead and ordering regular #2 for delivery soon as I am getting by with the #2 left over from last summer. The problem I had with that 30% #1 was that it took me all the following summer to use it all up and I did not want to get into that again. This past summer I used all the summer fuel. I just never know how much fuel I am going to need, so figured to try to make it through the winter with what I had, rather than get stuck with so much #1 mix again.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #7
My fuel supplier tells me that the common winter fuel is 30% #1 and 70% #2. That is what I bought before winter before last. This winter, I am not planning on using my tractor very much, so am trying to get buy on one tank of fuel with JD winter fuel treatment plus the OptiLube I already put in the big tank. Although it rarely gets below zero here, it did this past week. I am down to about 3/8 of a tank now, so will have to make a decision soon as to what my fuel future is for the rest of the winter. I am thinking about going ahead and ordering regular #2 for delivery soon as I am getting by with the #2 left over from last summer. The problem I had with that 30% #1 was that it took me all the following summer to use it all up and I did not want to get into that again. This past summer I used all the summer fuel. I just never know how much fuel I am going to need, so figured to try to make it through the winter with what I had, rather than get stuck with so much #1 mix again.

Dave
I would order #2 also if I were in your situation. You could probably get by with treated #2 for 90% of the time.
I like to keep #2 in my barrel, but it won’t come out for about 2 months in the winter:laugh:
 
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Right now I only have #2 Fuel with Double Howes treatment in it. If we have a super cold weird day I won't start the tractor unless I have to. Never had a problem last year or with my water tender it was always put away for the winter with summer fuel and treated by me. I did start it a couple times during the winter just because I could and let it come up to operating temps.

FAQ about it;
Which Howes additive should I use in the winter?
Howes Diesel Treat. It’s a diesel conditioner with anti-gel and contains a cold flow improver designed to prevent gelling in winter.
 

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John Deere says to blend kerosene for winter use, but they say to use their fuel treatment for lubricity.
Not much else you can do...#2 treated with cold flow additive can only go down to -5 or -10.
I used +15 #2 in Alaska year-round in a 500 gallon above ground tank for all of my diesels with only 50 gallon shot of #1 in December and Stanadyne (year round). I was only bit once. It was -55F. I drove my Cummins powered Ram to Delta Junction 100 miles away from home. It started bucking and losing power about 20 miles from home. It was parked in a warm garage at home. I realized I wasn’t making power and I was losing heat in the cab about 50 miles from home. I was screwed either way. Luckily it didn’t get any worse the rest of the trip. It didn’t like it and I was cold, but I made it to Delta Junction just fine. That was the only time I was burned AFTER I learned my expensive lesson about dry fuels and what they can do your diesel injection system.

The right fuel and additive can make all the difference in what happens for an operator. :good2:
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
What’s +15 #2?
Are you saying a #1 blend is still bad even if treated for lubricity?
It seems you are trying to say something without actually saying it.
 

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What’s +15 #2?
Are you saying a #1 blend is still bad even if treated for lubricity?
It seems you are trying to say something without actually saying it.
No sir. There are multiple grades of #2 in northern regions. +15 and -10. #1 was most likely kerosene. Either way, lots to know about fuel where everyone lives, not just common knowledge.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
No sir. There are multiple grades of #2 in northern regions. +15 and -10. #1 was most likely kerosene. Either way, lots to know about fuel where everyone lives, not just common knowledge.
What is +15? And -10 for that matter?
Are you saying that it’s still bad to use a #1 blend even if you treat for lubricity?
 

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What is +15? And -10 for that matter?
Are you saying that it’s still bad to use a #1 blend even if you treat for lubricity?
In northern regions they have two flavors of #2. Those are the cloud point temps of those fuels. They’re not a blend, but different taps off the distillation tower.

I avoided #1 like it was the plague. I only used it when absolutely necessary. I would let my 500 gallon tank run low before adding any amount of #1. I would always treat with Stanadyne. #1 is the equivalent of liquid sandpaper if you ask me. :lol: I could monitor cloud and pour points by looking at the Goldenrod filter with the glass bowl on the bottom of the tank.

You can almost think of fuels up north like this, lower 48 #2 = Northern +15 #2. L48 #1 = N -10 #2. L48 Kerosene = N #1. It’s not a direct correlation, but close enough for this discussion. :good2:
 

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All the talk about gelling diesel, kerosene, and cold weather got me thinking. I starting asking questions of a couple local fuel suppliers yesterday and today.
I went to a bulk fuel supplier (BP) in Rochester that has a bunch of pumps lined up for the general public to use. I’m not kidding when I say that they have about every fuel that you would need...1 pump of each.
Their winter diesel blend is 20% #1. I bought 6 gallons of straight #1 there.

Today I went to the local BP station in the small town near where I live, and bought 12 gallons of their winter blend. I went inside, and asked them some questions. The woman at the counter had a sheet with all the info that I was asking about. They had just reworked their blend to 50% number 1. She said the cold filter plugging temp would be -30 deg F
Their #2 with cold flow additive had a cold filter plug temp of -5 deg

Both places (both of them are BP affiliates) confirmed that kerosene and #1 were identical base stocks.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting that the 2 places (both BP) had very different winter blends, and that they are both fiddling with the ratio to meet expected local temperatures. So buying diesel from a place that sells allot is definitely important.
The blend can vary widely.
I stopped by the JD dealer and bought some extra fuel filters too. I think I’m ready for the brutal cold next week (-32 degF) weds morning...I will need to feed the cows:bigthumb:
I am impressed the clerk at the store was prepared with the answer and it was actually written down on a sheet of paper. I have a hard enough time getting a response in English I can understand about a basic question, let alone one requiring a technical answer.

Then I find information like this on fuel distributors websites.....

Premium Dieselex-4 Product Specs


*CountryMark Premium Dieselex-4, sourced from CountryMark terminals, has a cetane number of 50. CountryMark Premium Dieselex-4, sourced from non-CountryMark terminals, has a typical cetane number between 45 and 50. These cetane numbers reflect the ignition quality of the fuel treated with CountryMark proprietary cetane improvers. Cetane index levels, by contrast, measure ignition quality of the base fuel before cetane improvers are added.


Same brand of fuel, it depends upon whether the station gets a delivery truck from one of their terminals or someone else's terminals. It makes you curious why they would have Country Mark Premium Dieselex-4 at non Country Mark Terminals. Or do they?

In reality, it's likely all diesel fuel until it's dumped into the tank at the local station and then its going to depend upon where the truck came from to fill the tank.

So, how on earth does the consumer know and even tell whether their branded diesel fuel is being sourced from a "CountryMark Terminal" or a "Non CountryMark terminal"?

When I asked the clerk about the source of their fuel her response was "some guy who isn't very nice or friendly and he drives a big truck" ........that should clear it up........:banghead:

The chart on the page I have linked briefly points out the difference between #2 and their "Premium Brand" diesel. In reality, you never really know what's in the tank in the ground. And when the companies admit their own branded stations may not be getting the same fuel as other branded stations because of the difference in the fuel from the delivery terminal,
THAT IS WHY I ALWAYS TREAT MY OWN FUEL AND ALWAYS ADD LUBRICANTS AND ANTI GELLING AND MOISTURE DISPERSAL TREATMENT.

I agree, always buy diesel from the location which sells a lot of diesel and is hopefully a recognized brand name, but that still is no assurance of the actual product in their underground tanks..............

 

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I am impressed the clerk at the store was prepared with the answer and it was actually written down on a sheet of paper. I have a hard enough time getting a response in English I can understand about a basic question, let alone one requiring a technical answer.

Then I find information like this on fuel distributors websites.....

Premium Dieselex-4 Product Specs


*CountryMark Premium Dieselex-4, sourced from CountryMark terminals, has a cetane number of 50. CountryMark Premium Dieselex-4, sourced from non-CountryMark terminals, has a typical cetane number between 45 and 50. These cetane numbers reflect the ignition quality of the fuel treated with CountryMark proprietary cetane improvers. Cetane index levels, by contrast, measure ignition quality of the base fuel before cetane improvers are added.


Same brand of fuel, it depends upon whether the station gets a delivery truck from one of their terminals or someone else's terminals. It makes you curious why they would have Country Mark Premium Dieselex-4 at non Country Mark Terminals. Or do they?

In reality, it's likely all diesel fuel until it's dumped into the tank at the local station and then its going to depend upon where the truck came from to fill the tank.

So, how on earth does the consumer know and even tell whether their branded diesel fuel is being sourced from a "CountryMark Terminal" or a "Non CountryMark terminal"?

When I asked the clerk about the source of their fuel her response was "some guy who isn't very nice or friendly and he drives a big truck" ........that should clear it up........:banghead:

The chart on the page I have linked briefly points out the difference between #2 and their "Premium Brand" diesel. In reality, you never really know what's in the tank in the ground. And when the companies admit their own branded stations may not be getting the same fuel as other branded stations because of the difference in the fuel from the delivery terminal,
THAT IS WHY I ALWAYS TREAT MY OWN FUEL AND ALWAYS ADD LUBRICANTS AND ANTI GELLING AND MOISTURE DISPERSAL TREATMENT.

I agree, always buy diesel from the location which sells a lot of diesel and is hopefully a recognized brand name, but that still is no assurance of the actual product in their underground tanks..............

It is all #2 Diesel/fuel oil. The change comes when they dump in an addative package or die. Everything is ULS these days. The package makes the difference. Also depends if they put in and #1/KERO.

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