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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've probably removed these grass clipping/or just grass from these front Anti-Scalp wheel several hundred times over these years, and I've had enough of the way those engineers designed the setup. There should be a bracket so the grass doesn't wrap around the wheel axle and I have to remove the wheels and pull the grass out.

So, starting tomorrow morning I'm designing me a bracket such that I won't have to do that anymore.

When I get it all finish and painted up I'' post some pictures.

BTW: These were new wheels this spring, and when the grass wraps around the axle the wheel won't turn and the get all battered up and cut like you see in the photos.









 

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I'm curious to see what you come up with :dunno:
 

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Interesting. I don't ever seem to have grass wrapped around that axle. Ever. :think: But my anti-scalp wheels are all beat and marked up like that. I figured that's quite normal due to the rocks, concrete, curbs, sticks, and other debris and obstacles my mower encounters.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
As of this evening, the bracket has been fabricated and painted. I had to re-align and adapt another the way the original pin/bolt was used.
When I install it tomorrow and make a test drive/mow to determine if I'm successful or not on preventing grass wrapping around the anti-scalp wheel axle.

I never let the grass get any higher than three inches. Although, I figured that is where the problem occurs...tall grass that hit the front of the anti-scalp wheels.

The anti-scalp wheels are located in the top hole in the bracket...And I mow my seven acres with the deck on 2-1/2" setting.


For those that may or may not have this problem of grass getting wrapped around these wheels, I have no problem with grass on the outer...right and left side anti-scalp wheels with grass. At first I thought it was the "spacing" between the two wheels that caused the problem, but, I added couple flat washers to fill the space and that didn't stop the grass wrapping.
 

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For the record, I had the same problem with the Toro ZMaster we had and only with the front center rollers. Got so bad once that I had a real hard time removing the little axle to get the rollers off.
 
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As of this evening, the bracket has been fabricated and painted. I had to re-align and adapt another the way the original pin/bolt was used.
When I install it tomorrow and make a test drive/mow to determine if I'm successful or not on preventing grass wrapping around the anti-scalp wheel axle.

I never let the grass get any higher than three inches. Although, I figured that is where the problem occurs...tall grass that hit the front of the anti-scalp wheels.

The anti-scalp wheels are located in the top hole in the bracket...And I mow my seven acres with the deck on 2-1/2" setting.


For those that may or may not have this problem of grass getting wrapped around these wheels, I have no problem with grass on the outer...right and left side anti-scalp wheels with grass. At first I thought it was the "spacing" between the two wheels that caused the problem, but, I added couple flat washers to fill the space and that didn't stop the grass wrapping.
So you are only having a problem with the wheels in the center of the deck?

The center wheels on the front of my X540's 54" deck are not adjustable. They are also flatter and wider than what you have. More like a skateboard wheel only wider. Just went out and checked them. Both spin freely and don't have any buildup.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I would say that most Ztrak owners don't notice that the two (middle) anti-scalp wheels are wide and flatter than the two outer wheels from the factory. I don't think that makes any difference on how they work on the deck. I do know you cannot buy the wider-flatter wheels from a JD Dealer. They sell the narrow-cone shaped ones. In past years I could get the wider-fatter ones, but, no longer see them on any newer models.
 

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I would say that most Ztrak owners don't notice that the two (middle) anti-scalp wheels are wide and flatter than the two outer wheels from the factory. I don't think that makes any difference on how they work on the deck. I do know you cannot buy the wider-flatter wheels from a JD Dealer. They sell the narrow-cone shaped ones. In past years I could get the wider-fatter ones, but, no longer see them on any newer models.
For what it is worth, the parts list shows the gauge wheels and anti-scalp wheels all with the same part number with no changes for older serial numbers.

TCU18744Wheel
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Here are some photos of the finish product that I fabricated to prevent the grass from wrapping around the anti-scalp wheels as shown above posts. I'm going to try it out later today after the dew dries up on the lawn. If this doesn't work, back to the drawing boards.

Please note the 3rd photo at the lower bottom on the bracket where there are three slots for adjusting the gauge wheels up or down. The lower slot is cut so that this would make a prime suspect for grass to gather.







 

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Discussion Starter #12
For what it is worth, the parts list shows the gauge wheels and anti-scalp wheels all with the same part number with no changes for older serial numbers.

[/TABLE]

Here is a photo of the original anti-scalp wheels that came on the Z710A. The one of the right is from the center deck location, one of the two there. The other wheel (left) is from the outer side of the deck. Please note the flat shape (no crown) like the other one. Yes!, when you ask the JD parts depart. for anti-scalp gauge wheels, you will get the ones that has the crown (peak) type.

 

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Interesting. I don't ever seem to have grass wrapped around that axle. Ever. :think: But my anti-scalp wheels are all beat and marked up like that. I figured that's quite normal due to the rocks, concrete, curbs, sticks, and other debris and obstacles my mower encounters.
I agree. I have never removed grass from mine. Here is a photo where we were talking about the front suitcase weight bracket on my ZTrak and in the background, while out of focus, there isn't any grass on the wheels.

In looking at the photos I agree that I have the cylindrical wheels in the middle position and the rounder (crowned) ones on the outboard positions front and rear. I am wondering if this is a wheel issue. If you ask a parts guy for a wheel they often just look up the wheel and go from there. My guess is there are different wheels like on my machine. You can go in and say I need Part Number ______ rather than have them look it up and get it wrong.

 

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I looked up the parts on the Z710A and for both deck options they list the same wheel in the middle and outboard positions.

TCU18744

That is odd.

For the 60" deck on my Z950R it lists.

Center Wheels (Front/Rear)
TCU34060

Outboard Wheels (Front/Rear)
TCU18744

So I use the same crowned wheels on the outboard positions that your machine calls for all positions. I could take a width measurement of the cylindrical ones to see if it matched that old one you have but I think there may be an error in the Parts Fiche (entirely possible) which might explain why you have the wrong replacement wheels. You might want to run TCU34060 if they fit. I am sure they are the same width as the crowned wheel since you are running two of them. Maybe see if that other part number is stamped in your old wheel somewhere. It might be worn off though as I wouldn't know where it would be.

I am not saying the issue is the type of wheel but I haven't had a grass issue with mine. Though there are lots of different types of grass and lengths when it is cut.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I looked up the parts on the Z710A and for both deck options they list the same wheel in the middle and outboard positions.

TCU18744

That is odd.

For the 60" deck on my Z950R it lists.

Center Wheels (Front/Rear)
TCU34060

Outboard Wheels (Front/Rear)
TCU18744

So I use the same crowned wheels on the outboard positions that your machine calls for all positions. I could take a width measurement of the cylindrical ones to see if it matched that old one you have but I think there may be an error in the Parts Fiche (entirely possible) which might explain why you have the wrong replacement wheels. You might want to run TCU34060 if they fit. I am sure they are the same width as the crowned wheel since you are running two of them. Maybe see if that other part number is stamped in your old wheel somewhere. It might be worn off though as I wouldn't know where it would be.

I am not saying the issue is the type of wheel but I haven't had a grass issue with mine. Though there are lots of different types of grass and lengths when it is cut.[/QUOTE:

sennister, My Z710A must have come with the fatter wheels...TCU34060 for the middle deck wheels, as I posted in the above thread. I changed out these wheel last fall and JD dealer gave me the crowned ones. All these anti-scalp wheels are the same width from what I can measure. I told the dealer parts guy, as I carried one with me to show him. He said, they only have the crowned ones to sell. So, there must be a reason they install the fatter ones on the middle position of the deck. Although, I have had grass collect in the axle/wheel area from day one when I bought the Z710A.

I also notice there a difference in the way your center wheels are attached to the bracket than what's on mine. I have a rod/bolt setup that secures the wheels to the bracket..
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
I looked up the parts on the Z710A and for both deck options they list the same wheel in the middle and outboard positions.

TCU18744

That is odd.

For the 60" deck on my Z950R it lists.

Center Wheels (Front/Rear)
TCU34060

Outboard Wheels (Front/Rear)
TCU18744

So I use the same crowned wheels on the outboard positions that your machine calls for all positions. I could take a width measurement of the cylindrical ones to see if it matched that old one you have but I think there may be an error in the Parts Fiche (entirely possible) which might explain why you have the wrong replacement wheels. You might want to run TCU34060 if they fit. I am sure they are the same width as the crowned wheel since you are running two of them. Maybe see if that other part number is stamped in your old wheel somewhere. It might be worn off though as I wouldn't know where it would be.

I am not saying the issue is the type of wheel but I haven't had a grass issue with mine. Though there are lots of different types of grass and lengths when it is cut.

Here is the specifications on the #TCU18744 anti-scalp wheels for the Z710A. Appears there is a slight difference in all dimensions and material (plastic) on both mowers. I don't think I can use the TCU34060 item due to the dimensions that they list.
I have a 54" deck and you have the 60" size, and I would guess the middle wheel bracket is a little wider and use a larger axle/bolt, etc.


Specification
Weight: 1.08 LBS 0.49 Kg
Style A1
Diameter (mm) 5.000 IN
Wheel Width 2.740 IN
Axle Diameter 0.560 IN
Hub Width 3.300 IN
Offset 1.650 IN
Roller Bearing - Y/N N
Grease Fitting N
Color BLACK
Material POLYPROP


Here is the specifications on the "Center" Wheel, Roller, Anti-Scalp #TCU34060 for the Z950R machine.

Specification
Weight: 1.65 LBS 0.75 Kg
Style A
Diameter (mm) 5.591 IN
Wheel Width 3.007 IN
Axle Diameter 1.043 IN
Hub Width 3.306 IN
Offset 1.653 IN
Roller Bearing - Y/N N
Grease Fitting N
Color BLACK
Material H22-PP
 

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Yeah, like I mentioned when I looked your machine up (I didn't know the deck size that you have but they both used the same wheels) it showed that same crowned wheel in all positions. The corner as well as the middle. However your photo showed that your old wheels that looks more like the cylindrical wheels that I have. Assuming they are the same stacked pair. We already know that we both use the same outboard wheels (TCU18744). The question is why does your machine appear to have shipped with the same center wheels (assuming that is a TCU34060) that I have but now they call for the crowned wheel?

You posted the specs and in looking at them the wheel width is different but I don't think that matters. Look at the hub width measurement.

TCU18744 (Crowned Outer Wheels) - Hub Width 3.300 IN

TCU34060 (Cylindrical Center Wheel on Z950R) - Hub Width 3.306 IN

Since the hub width is the part riding on the axle that is also the widest part and the part that will matter. 0.006" isn't going to cause it not to work. The fact that the cylindrical wheel is wider would in theory make it harder for debris to get around the axle. I am not saying your parts guy screwed up. Because clearly the TCU18744 is called for in all positions on your deck. The next measurement of concern is the Axle Diameter.

TCU18744 - Axle Diameter 0.560 IN

TCU34060 - Axle Diameter 1.043 IN

You pointed out that the way it mounts is different. It is, I just have a bolt going through the wheels but that isn't a 1" bolt. Going back to the parts list for my 60" deck. There is an axle that the two wheels slide on. This is kind of like a bushing to link the two wheels together. By chace were your old cylindrical wheels like this? That axle is Part Number TCU27151. Then the bolt that passes through to hold it on the deck is a M10x200 bolt. You wouldn't need to replace this. A M10 bolt is ball park about a 3/8 (of course being metric). That would fit in an axle opening that is a bit over 1/2".

The next number that is different is the wheel diameter but it is 0.591" difference. Well that works out to a bit less than 0.3" thicker when looking at the radius. So ball park numbers, with the round wheels do you have an additional 5/16" clearance between the wheel and deck? that is the real difference. Odds are you do as that isn't much space. It would actually be closer to 19/64" but that is harder to measure. If a 5/16" drill bit fits between the wheels you have on there now and the deck you have room to spare.

So in this long rambling, I think the TCU34060 wheel, while I agree that the dimensions are not the same, very well could work if you also picked of the Axle (TCU27151) which adapts that 1" axle hole in the TCU34060 down to about 1/2". You may already have that axle laying around if you found that you had a spare part laying around when you put the replacement wheels on of those original wheels are the TCU34060 that I suspect it is.

However all this said. You did mention that even with the old wheel design, you still had the issue of grass wrapping around the axle. Like I said, I haven't seen this but my grass type may be different or I don't let my grass get as long as yours between cuts. My clippings are pretty small as I cut often so I don't see how they could wrap around there and my grass variety may be different. I know Florida grass is very different from Minnesota grass for instance but I didn't look to see where you are at and even if I did, I don't know that much about grass varieties.

I don't know if this helps in the end, the decks are different but from what I see it might still work.
 

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These are screen shots from the parts lookup. You can see the difference in how the wheels bolt up. Really the big difference is you have a hook bolt where I have just a regular old M10x200 metric bolt. It looks like we both have a center axle but mine is probably thicker. If your hook bolt is in the 3/8" range (probably metric) then upgrading the axle will work. However I don't know that it will fix the issue.

Here is how my center wheels bolt up.



Here are how your center wheels bolt up.

 
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Never had that much trouble with the center wheels on the 72" 7 Iron deck on the Z.
Seems to be the same dual wheel arrangement as yours.

Do clean it up after every mowing with high pressure shop air, along with the whole Z.
Think if you let the grass build up over several mowing's, it will pack in behind the roller.
Always seem to be some grass stacking up behind the roller, but it does blow out easily with
125 PSI air if you do it every time.

I did modify all the wheels, drilling a 1/16" hole in the plastic where I can inject grease between the
roller shaft and wheel with a needle injector on the grease gun.
Do this every 20 hour grease job on the whole machine.

Some here (Gizmo) says this will cause grass to wrap around the axle and stick to it, haven't had that problem. :dunno:

Here's what I did on mine, note that the spacer is regular old iron and will rust between the bolt and it, so
loaded the inside of the spacer with Neversieze so it doesn't lock up with the bolt.

Rely on JD "Blue" high moisture environment grease between the wheel and spacer.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
These are screen shots from the parts lookup. You can see the difference in how the wheels bolt up. Really the big difference is you have a hook bolt where I have just a regular old M10x200 metric bolt. It looks like we both have a center axle but mine is probably thicker. If your hook bolt is in the 3/8" range (probably metric) then upgrading the axle will work. However I don't know that it will fix the issue.

Here is how my center wheels bolt up.



Here are how your center wheels bolt up.


I made a road trip to my local JD dealer today to get some info. on why grass wraps around the deck front anti-scalp wheels.
I didn't see the parts guy, but did get to see the sales manager regarding this matter. He said the bracket that is on the Z700 series mowers had many complaints with grass wrapping around the anti-scalp wheel axle. With so many complaints, John Deere only used it one year and change the assembly bracket. The newer models have the bracket like the Z900 series.

Here is a photo of my Z710A front middle bracket that he referred to. Too many sharp point that grass would catch and wrap around the axle assembly.











 
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