My JD 318 gets new fuel lines
In another post I had on a 318 problem, it was _strongly suggested_ that I change out my 20 year old fuel lines :nunu:.
I started the process today. Here are the pictures. You can see both sides of the tractor with the seat, deck (if that's what it's called) and a side panel off. The 318 has an interesting fuel switch. There is off, on for normal use, and a "reserve" setting for when you run out of gas. The reserve gets you enough fuel to get back home.
Now I've got a question but 1st I have to tell a story on myself. Last winter, we had a lovely 6" snow and I had the driveway plowed, had done the neighbors, and was playing in the street. The tractor died. I cranked (no luck), said things like "golly gee, you wonder old tractor, start" and "My goodness this is annoying" (or words to that effect :mocking
. A truck came by and pulled me down the road and into my driveway. I tried the engine again, it cranked. Then I remembered the reserve setting and thought "Pete, you silly sod you, sometimes your brain is not worth the value of used horse food" (or woods to that effect). It was a Deere in the headlights moment for me. So the reserve feature is nice, and it's nicer still if you remember to use it :laugh:.
BTW, one disassembly tip: You do not have to remove the seat to remove the deck. You may choose to do this if you're running solo and don't want to pop your back.
Ok, so, here's my question and the whole reason for the post. If you look at the close up of one of the fuel lines into the tank, and on the fuel cut off switch, you can see the little red hose clamps. Should I re-use these or get new ones?
Pete
I started the process today. Here are the pictures. You can see both sides of the tractor with the seat, deck (if that's what it's called) and a side panel off. The 318 has an interesting fuel switch. There is off, on for normal use, and a "reserve" setting for when you run out of gas. The reserve gets you enough fuel to get back home.
Now I've got a question but 1st I have to tell a story on myself. Last winter, we had a lovely 6" snow and I had the driveway plowed, had done the neighbors, and was playing in the street. The tractor died. I cranked (no luck), said things like "golly gee, you wonder old tractor, start" and "My goodness this is annoying" (or words to that effect :mocking
. A truck came by and pulled me down the road and into my driveway. I tried the engine again, it cranked. Then I remembered the reserve setting and thought "Pete, you silly sod you, sometimes your brain is not worth the value of used horse food" (or woods to that effect). It was a Deere in the headlights moment for me. So the reserve feature is nice, and it's nicer still if you remember to use it :laugh:.BTW, one disassembly tip: You do not have to remove the seat to remove the deck. You may choose to do this if you're running solo and don't want to pop your back.
Ok, so, here's my question and the whole reason for the post. If you look at the close up of one of the fuel lines into the tank, and on the fuel cut off switch, you can see the little red hose clamps. Should I re-use these or get new ones?
Pete
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I have never had any luck re-using those spring clamps. Go to the auto parts store and get fuel line clamps rated for fuel injection systems-they are worlds better then the regular worm style "hose clamps"
They look like this: http://www.amazon.com/Breeze-FI5PB-Injection-Effective-Diameter/dp/B002AV7AXC
They look like this: http://www.amazon.com/Breeze-FI5PB-Injection-Effective-Diameter/dp/B002AV7AXC
Will do! Thanks! :thumbup1gif:
Pete
Pete
Hi Pete,
Did you change out the "hard one" also?
The one behind the fan shroud that goes into the governor housing.
It's a PITA,but it is 20 years old too.
Greg
Did you change out the "hard one" also?
The one behind the fan shroud that goes into the governor housing.
It's a PITA,but it is 20 years old too.
Greg
Greg, as you can see in the pictures I took of the panel on the left side of the tractor so I could access to the hose lines both to the cutoff and from the cutoff through the shroud into the engine compartment. I think I've accounted for all the hoses... I have no idea how one would do all this without removing that left side panel.
Haven't replaced the hoses yet, I need the get the "Kenny approved" hose clamps first. This is the most I've every had this tractor torn down though.
Tnx for the heads up, I _think_ I've got the hose you've mentioned. I'm guessing your 316 is pretty close to the 318, and that your "90% restored" means you know your way around this series better than I ever will.
Pete
Haven't replaced the hoses yet, I need the get the "Kenny approved" hose clamps first. This is the most I've every had this tractor torn down though.
Tnx for the heads up, I _think_ I've got the hose you've mentioned. I'm guessing your 316 is pretty close to the 318, and that your "90% restored" means you know your way around this series better than I ever will.
Pete
While I agree with Ken's statement on Re-Use of the factory clamps, the clamps he posted have one big drawback for me...Plain Steel. Not a big deal now, but it turns a future simple job of replacing hoses into a major PITA. I'm not a huge "worm style clamp" lover either, but I found that the key to being able to work with them is to get the correct sizes required. Often times some shops just stock a few sizes, where in reality they pratically make a clamp for every size.
On fuel lines such as this, I'd probably not be afraid to use good zip ties....tighten real good, cut off the tail and voila...
On fuel lines such as this, I'd probably not be afraid to use good zip ties....tighten real good, cut off the tail and voila...
Hi Pete,
Actually,I didn't know a darn thing about my 316 or the P218G Onan,until I started the restoration.
Greg
Actually,I didn't know a darn thing about my 316 or the P218G Onan,until I started the restoration.
Greg
Well, the lines are changed, everything put back together, no extra parts and the tractor started just fine :yahoo:.
On the fuel line clamps, I re-used one of the spring clip ones on the tank where it was too tight of a fit for the Kenny approved ones. As for the corrosion problem, I coated each clamp with some "liquid 'lectric tape" so they can come off in 15 years. I was out of ScotchLock, which would be my preferred solution. Lowes doesn't carry that any more (makes sense- it's useful stuff so why would Lowes carry it :laugh. So I used the liquid electric tape. If I made a habit of doing this, I'd try to find that same clamp in stainless.
There's a shot of the fuel tank and the fuel switch. I also left the factor clamps on the fuel filter, since it gets changed every 2-3 years as needed. This will also be a good way to compare re-using the JD clamps and the screw on clamps.
Lessons Learned:
1) Put fuel back in the tank before starting. Now I caught this 2 seconds before I turned the key, just for the record...
2) You don't have to take the seat off to take the rear cover/pan/"thingie the seat is on and also holds your feet" off the tractor. It was a battle getting the screws started to get the seat back on, and the seat flapped down a few times trying to take a bite out of me.
3) After removing the pan/thingie, be sure to take 2 Ibuprofen before you know you need it. Heavy and awkward.
3) I have the hydro fluid tinted red so I can see it in the sight tube. Big win. Just after working on the seat, I was checking everything and found some red fluid on the concrete under the tractor. Looked and looked for the leak. The lesson here is that if you have red dyed fluid and you can't find the leak, check your hands to see if _you_ are leaking "hydro fluid" :mocking:. How did I spring a leak? See #2 above reference the seat...
4) It takes 10 feet of fuel line to do this. I had 4" to spare.
5) It was a win to clean things that had never been cleaned, check for tightness of bolts, and check for wear and tear.
The fuel line I bought looked just fine, it was about $1.15 a foot or so. The Deere fuel line was $9/ft. It did have an inner sleeve to it which was not on the original Deere line I removed. I wonder if this was the Deere answer to Ethanol? I might pay a bit more for that, but not that much. Any comments on this from anyone?
I've got 20 years on this tractor, lets see if it can last another 15 years...
Pete
On the fuel line clamps, I re-used one of the spring clip ones on the tank where it was too tight of a fit for the Kenny approved ones. As for the corrosion problem, I coated each clamp with some "liquid 'lectric tape" so they can come off in 15 years. I was out of ScotchLock, which would be my preferred solution. Lowes doesn't carry that any more (makes sense- it's useful stuff so why would Lowes carry it :laugh
. So I used the liquid electric tape. If I made a habit of doing this, I'd try to find that same clamp in stainless.There's a shot of the fuel tank and the fuel switch. I also left the factor clamps on the fuel filter, since it gets changed every 2-3 years as needed. This will also be a good way to compare re-using the JD clamps and the screw on clamps.
Lessons Learned:
1) Put fuel back in the tank before starting. Now I caught this 2 seconds before I turned the key, just for the record...
2) You don't have to take the seat off to take the rear cover/pan/"thingie the seat is on and also holds your feet" off the tractor. It was a battle getting the screws started to get the seat back on, and the seat flapped down a few times trying to take a bite out of me.
3) After removing the pan/thingie, be sure to take 2 Ibuprofen before you know you need it. Heavy and awkward.
3) I have the hydro fluid tinted red so I can see it in the sight tube. Big win. Just after working on the seat, I was checking everything and found some red fluid on the concrete under the tractor. Looked and looked for the leak. The lesson here is that if you have red dyed fluid and you can't find the leak, check your hands to see if _you_ are leaking "hydro fluid" :mocking:. How did I spring a leak? See #2 above reference the seat...
4) It takes 10 feet of fuel line to do this. I had 4" to spare.
5) It was a win to clean things that had never been cleaned, check for tightness of bolts, and check for wear and tear.
The fuel line I bought looked just fine, it was about $1.15 a foot or so. The Deere fuel line was $9/ft. It did have an inner sleeve to it which was not on the original Deere line I removed. I wonder if this was the Deere answer to Ethanol? I might pay a bit more for that, but not that much. Any comments on this from anyone?
I've got 20 years on this tractor, lets see if it can last another 15 years...
Pete
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EXCELLENT write up Pete! :good2: Thanks for all the tips. Let's just say the fuel lines will get you through the next 15 years. Nothing like a well maintained machine. Are you for hire? You do very nice work. Looks like all you need now is green grass? Thanks again. :thumbup1gif:
:thumbup1gif: to you Pete, nice job.
I just replaced all my lines today. I replaced the grommets, pickups, hoses, and even the "hard one" - the pulse line to the fuel pump. It really is hard. You have to take the right engine shroud off (or as in my case take it most of the way off, don't know where the bottom bolts are on it) You will most likely need a long handled needled nose pliers to get the hose off. Unfortunately, I don't own a pair of long handled needled nose pliers. It uses the same clamps and hose as the rest of the system. I'll post a pic later when I get it off my phone.
Good for you! :good2:
Pete
Pete
I applaud you for doing the "hard one" without having to move the engine away from the firewall. :drinks:
Questions about new fuel line project
I am new so I just read your post from 2011 about new fuel lines on your 318.
How long did it take to remove the body from the tractor. Would you consider that
an "advanced" project or ok for a someone with modest experience ?
Recently, I was using a siphon tool to pull (old stale) gas from system by drawing from the line to the fuel pump. There was a sucking sound
coming from the fuel selector valve. Do you think that sounds like a problem?
Thanks, Tom B.
I am new so I just read your post from 2011 about new fuel lines on your 318.
How long did it take to remove the body from the tractor. Would you consider that
an "advanced" project or ok for a someone with modest experience ?
Recently, I was using a siphon tool to pull (old stale) gas from system by drawing from the line to the fuel pump. There was a sucking sound
coming from the fuel selector valve. Do you think that sounds like a problem?
Thanks, Tom B.
Tom,
Sorry for the delay. The body was fairly easy to take off. I wouldn't say its an advanced project if you have any mechanical aptitude at all. The hardest part was re-routing the lines and, of course, the one line coming off the engine block. If I had some sort of coupling to connect the old line to the new I could have used the old to pull the new line through the body. The other hard part was placing the new pickups back into the tank without crushing the fine mesh ends they have on them.
The first pic is a shroud fin that I had to bend back to get the hose off the back part of the fuel pump.
The second pic is after I took the seat and back end off. My 10 year old son helped me lift it off. Just four bolts and a couple electrical connectors.
The last picture is the hard to reach hose where it comes off the block.
I forgot to get a picture of it after I cleaned it all up and reassembled. :cray:
Sorry for the delay. The body was fairly easy to take off. I wouldn't say its an advanced project if you have any mechanical aptitude at all. The hardest part was re-routing the lines and, of course, the one line coming off the engine block. If I had some sort of coupling to connect the old line to the new I could have used the old to pull the new line through the body. The other hard part was placing the new pickups back into the tank without crushing the fine mesh ends they have on them.
The first pic is a shroud fin that I had to bend back to get the hose off the back part of the fuel pump.
The second pic is after I took the seat and back end off. My 10 year old son helped me lift it off. Just four bolts and a couple electrical connectors.
The last picture is the hard to reach hose where it comes off the block.
I forgot to get a picture of it after I cleaned it all up and reassembled. :cray:
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Got half way done with cutting the grass and the tractor bogged down. I pulled back the throttle and killed the PTO and everything seamed fine. Went back to cutting. I managed to make 5 more passes and it stalled out and would not restart. I thought I ran out of gas. I looked back at the gauge and it showed a 1/4 tank. For the heck if it I switched over to the reserve still nothing. Popped the hood and the fuel filter was bone dry. Now just last week I changed the oil and fuel filter. The new filter filled in a couple of cranks and I was off and running. Long story short on my way to get replacement fuel line, hope this fixes it. The fuel lines are original and my 318 is an 88'
Might be time to replaced the fuel pickups in the tank also. They deteriorate over time and can cause the same symptoms.
Ok so I replaced all of the fuel lines. I don't think the pickups are clogged, when I removed the hoses from the tank gas gushed like a stuck pig.
I'm a bit confused on one thing though. When I got up to the fuel pump I noticed that there is a barb at the bottom of the pump and it did not have a hose on it. It was covered with some dust like it never had a hose attached to it. Should this barb have a hose on it? I did not see anything laying around thatcould plug in.
I think my pump is know as a 3 port pump, is there a port on the back that goes to the governor housing? If so I need to replace that bit of hose as well. The tractor ran well enough for me to finish cutting the grass but I don't think the pump is working well.
I'm a bit confused on one thing though. When I got up to the fuel pump I noticed that there is a barb at the bottom of the pump and it did not have a hose on it. It was covered with some dust like it never had a hose attached to it. Should this barb have a hose on it? I did not see anything laying around thatcould plug in.
I think my pump is know as a 3 port pump, is there a port on the back that goes to the governor housing? If so I need to replace that bit of hose as well. The tractor ran well enough for me to finish cutting the grass but I don't think the pump is working well.
Felixm22,
The fourth barb at the bottom edge does not get a hose and is blanked off inside the housing. The short hose or "pulse line" on the rear of the pump that goes to the crankcase is what powers the pump diaphragm and if it has small cracks/leaks the performance of the pump will suffer greatly. Be sure to renew that short hose along with the other replacements you are making... Here is a good illustration from the Onan parts catalog showing the impulse hose on the back of the pump housing.
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Here is a picture with the engine shroud off so you can see the impulse line:
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Chuck
The fourth barb at the bottom edge does not get a hose and is blanked off inside the housing. The short hose or "pulse line" on the rear of the pump that goes to the crankcase is what powers the pump diaphragm and if it has small cracks/leaks the performance of the pump will suffer greatly. Be sure to renew that short hose along with the other replacements you are making... Here is a good illustration from the Onan parts catalog showing the impulse hose on the back of the pump housing.
Here is a picture with the engine shroud off so you can see the impulse line:
Chuck
Thanks Chuck,
I figured that was the case but I just wanted to finish the grass before it rained. I'll probably dig into it early next week. Judging from the pictures you posted I should have enough hose left to do the last little bit.
I figured that was the case but I just wanted to finish the grass before it rained. I'll probably dig into it early next week. Judging from the pictures you posted I should have enough hose left to do the last little bit.
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