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Well, I have been battling a computer problem the last several days, which has been very frustrating. Long story shortened, the new computer I bought at Best Buy a little over a month ago had failed to reliably connect to the wireless internet in my home. A few months ago, I had added two different Wi Fi extenders in our home because of it's size, the signal from the wireless router in my office on the main floor was diminished significantly by time it reached out master bedroom at the south end of the 2nd floor.

The new laptop I bought from Best Buy in October 2016 came with McAfee Anti Virus and Best Buy was pitching Kapersky anti virus which came in the deal with the new laptop. The "Advisor" at Best Buy suggested that I run the McAfee for 30 days and then load the Kapersky, which had a 6 month "free" membership. As a matter of fact, the Best Buy rep even suggested waiting until the end of McAfee's 30 day trial to load the Kapersky to "get the most out of the 6 months membership of Kapersky" which came with the purchase of the new machine. I specifically asked him "Does the scanning of the software at purchase start the "Subscription" clock running or is it when it is loaded?" He assured me it is when the software is actually loaded. He even replied, you could use McAfee for a year and then load the Kapersky and still have the 6 months of "subscription" available. Ok, so I will use the McAfee and get rid of it at the end of the 30th day.

I have used Norton for decades and have always liked it. I have had nothing but positive experiences with the Norton and I never had any problems with it slowing down the machine. I also like that the Norton 360 showed the results on every search of the status of every website by including either a Green Icon in the link showing the website safe or a warning of one degree or another was provided for sites in a google or other searches which either may not be secure or certainly are a risk to access. I even have a license for the Norton for 3 machines for the next year and should have just deleted the McAfee and loaded what I have always used, but the Best Buy so strongly raved about Kapersky I thought I would give it a try. What a mistake that turned out to be.

Once I deleted and completely removed McAfee using the control panel and windows 10 removal program, I loaded the Kapersky. Instantly, the machine slowed to a crawl. The website loading speed and general search speed reminded me of computers 15 years ago. It was completely unacceptable. I tried several adjustments and modifications to the Kapersky which were suggested in the Kapersky website. Nothing helped. Finally, I decided to remove the Kapersky program after trying to use it for a full day. Before removing Kapersky, I checked the Microsoft site for updates and known issues with the Kapersky. I also went to Kapersky's site and their technical forums and found many people had experienced issues using Kapersky with Windows 10. After trying every option suggested on their two source sites. I finally decided enough was enough.

The moment I had removed the Kapersky, the machine performance returned to what it previously had been. But suddenly, I noticed the wireless connection would freeze randomly. Often the wireless was very slow to connect and other times, it would work properly. I went online and checked for updates for the modem and also any other updates for either Windows 10 or through the HP Support website. There were updates, but nothing resolved the problem. I checked all of the settings in the wireless modem and everything was configured correctly. Once I reached the point where I could go no further, I contacted Best Buy. Now, it's important to note the machine was 33 days old at this point.

I spoke with Best Buy customer service on the phone and explained what had occurred. The phone rep assured me that all technical issues had to be addressed by Geek Squad so she put me through to them. Before connecting to Geek Squad, I specifically discussed with the Best Buy phone rep that I had a problem with spending money to address this issue, especially since it was Best Buys strong recommendation and "bundling" of the Kapersky which had led me to this point. She agreed that they should make a "reasonable" effort to resolve the problem. I told her I was concerned that perhaps there was a failure in the wireless modem or some other hardware issue, but I also found the timing of the problems more than coincidental that it likely was a software issue. I asked her how the HP warranty would apply and she reviewed it with me. She insisted the "Best way" to proceed would be with Geek Squad involvement.

Best buy Geek Squad immediately wanted $199 to "Scan and Check" my "new" computer. I told them that I felt they had some responsibility in this mess because it was their insistence on the use of the Kapersky software and their inclusion of the software in their marketing bundle. Oh and I forgot to mention, just imagine my surprise when I loaded the Kapersky on day 30 of the machine's ownership, as the Best Buy rep had suggested and the moment it was loaded, the program indicated I had 141 days remaining on my 180 day "Subscription". Somehow, the machine purchased on October 13th, 2016 has consumed 39 days of the 180 day "Subscription" by November 15th, 2016.........From the moment it was loaded, it indicated I had 141 days remaining, which means that somehow, the "Subscription" started BEFORE I purchased the new machine. When I brought this to the Geek Squad atttention, the guy said "Huh, that's odd"........

The Geek squad guy offerd to run a "complimentary scan" at no charge and It was confirmed that you often do get exactly what you pay for. He ran a very simple scan on the machine using a remote connection and insisted that the only path forward was for him to transfer me to the "advanced analysis" and it would require a payment of $199. I balked at that point and told him I wanted to consider other options. I asked if they had any other "one time" resolution options and he indicated it was the $199 option. I should note that when I purchased the machine, they offered their "one Year" Geek Squad assistance for a purchase price of $99, a "savings" of $100 since it was a new machine purchase. At the time I purchased the machine, I felt the $99 was an unnecessary charge and after all, the machine sold for $300 new, so adding another 33% for assistance on the "new machine" seemed unnecessary. After all, what good is the warranty if you need to pay for all repairs right from the start?

I asked the Geek Squad guy if the $99 option for their "services" would still be available since the machine was just 3 days past the 30 day "purchase window". Essentially, the short answer to their long explantion was NO. At that point, I told them I would "get back to them"........

I looked online and found PC esupport. They charge $89 for their online repairs and assistance and they do not charge you until the repairs are made and you have used the machine and are satisfied. They provide a 10 day warranty on their online repairs. I called and spoke with them on the phone. The representative I spoke with went through their terms of service and explained everything clearly. I had explained the entire problem to this guy and when he asked me if I wanted to proceed with their repairs that he would have to transfer me to a service technician, I thought now I will have to explain everything to yet another person.

The service representative immediately got on the phone and he was aware of everything I had told the first person. He even again reviewed their service terms just to make sure I was clear and then he logged on through a remote connection which I granted. He did indicated that I would have to fill out the customer information online and that they would have to "reserve" a payment of $89.95 on a credit card but that they would only access the money when the repairs had been made and I was satisifed. I certainly understand why they do this and how they verify the availability of a valid payment source before proceeding. The terms of their agreement, which I read while the guy waited on the phone patiently, matched everything they had verbally told me. I proceeded to grant them acess to my computer remotely.

Both of the people at PC e Service emphasized that should I become uncomfortable with anything they are doing or for any reason and I want them to stop, all I had to do was click the big red X on the connection box and the session would cease immediately. If they haven't solved the problem, there would be no charge for their services. These guys spent more time making sure I understood what they were going to do and exactly how they would proceed where Geek Squad simply logged in and went for it. I should also point out that after Geek Squad performed their scan of my machine, the wireless connection no longer functioned at all and in fact, something in the settings that they had changed resulted in a circled X in the wireless connection and the only way I could connect was with an ethernet cable directly plugged into the modem. So with the Geek Squad's "help", my computer actually became less functional.

The service technician from PC e Service methodically began checking out all of the same stuff I had already reviewed. For those who have never had one of these remote connections, you watch the screen on your computer and you can see everything that they are doing. The mouse cursor moves around and you see the files opening and closing and exactly what they are doing the entire time. It's actually a learning experience and the technician from PC e Services was explaining to me everything he was doing and why he was doing it. He went further into the modem operations and configurations than I would dare wander on my own.

He removed the drivers for the wireless modem and went to the modem website and obtained the newest drivers and also went to Microsoft's site for their Windows 10 and obtained some files. He reloaded everything and had me enter the wireless modem security codes several times. I told him to go ahead and click on the password box which shows the actual password instead of the dots when it is entered so he could copy and paste the pass word when doing the reconfiguration. He also checked on the Mc Afee and Kapersky removals to make sure that the programs had been correctly and completely removed. He found some remnants of the Kapersky program which the Windows 10 control panel removal had not deleted and resolved that issue as well. All total from start to finish, he spent about 15 minutes on the machine. He had me unplug the Ethernet cable at that point and he went through and checked all of the machines operation on the wireless wifi while making several changes and after his assistance, it worked better than when the machine was new. The speed was better and the connection was much faster. In fact, it worked almost as well as when it is plugged into the Ethernet cable.

He asked me to use the machine for the next half hour and he would call me back to make sure everything was fine. If at that point, I was satisfied, then I would approve the payment of the one time charge of $89.95. In about 35 minutes, he called back to check how everything was working. He asked if there were any other issues or anything else I needed assistance with. Once completed, I authorized their payment and then he reminded me that the should I have any firther problems to call their technical support number and use my "Case Ticket Number" and they would address the concerns. He reminded me that should I have any problems within the 10 days, there would be no new charge for their assistance.

Frankly, it was very refreshing to actually have someone do what they said they would do and make sure I was happy before charging my credit card. The entire experience with them was very good and it was interesting to see how they performed the repairs. I learned a couple of new Windows 10 shortcuts I was previously unaware of. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being terrible and 10 being perfect, I would give the PC e Services technicians a 10 and I would give Best Buy and their entire approach and efforts a 2. Why a 2 and not a 1? Because at least the guy was polite while not accomplishing anything helpful for my problem before actually making the machine less functional. :banghead:

I went in and checked my bank card account and sure enough, there was a reserve for a payment of $89.95 pending to be drawn out today. So everything that PC E Services told me was true and they did everything exactly as they should. They never questioned my abilities as did Best Buy. The Best Buy people kept insisting that my wireless signal was the issue. Oh, I forgot to mention, I had run a speed test at the beginning of this issue and even had a Comcast Service Technician come out to check everything because the speeds were not what I thought they should be. According to Comcast, the Wireless signal was working just like it should be. But of course, I could upgrade to a faster service for only $139 per month........No thanks. I explained to the Best Buy guy that I could use a Wireless Tablet in the same exact place as the note book computer I was experiencing problems with so I knew the wireless signal was adequate. I could even test the wireless signal so there was no question that was not the issue. But Best Buy kept implying that was part of the problem.

So, bottom line is that if any of you have a computer problem and can't resolve it on your own, I was very pleased with the service of PC e Services. They repaired the issue and charged less than 1/2 of what Best Buy wanted. Not to mention that after Best Buy ran their scan and told me everything was "working" according to their scan results, my wireless ceased to function at that point. I am very disappointed in Best Buy and this entire episode. I plan to write their CEO a letter outlining the issue and my experiences. It will be insightful to see if they respond. Interestingly, Morningstar just issued an updated statement regarding Best Buy and check out the irony in what the beginning of the statement says, when compared to my personal experiences;

""Investment Thesis 11/17/2016
Competition and evolving industry dynamics have eroded Best Buy's once-narrow moat. We believe online retailers, mass merchants, and direct sales activity from consumer electronics OEMs have diminished the clout Best Buy once had with customers, resulting in greater market share competition and making margin gains more difficult. Moreover, as key consumer electronics vendors increasingly take products directly to consumers and introduce trade-in programs, we expect Best Buy's competitive advantages--including a well-known brand name and high-traffic retail locations--may fade. ""

Failing to satisfy the customer is also going to impact their future..............The reason I bought from Best Buy verses just ordering online was the "Theory" that if I had a problem, I would have the local store to go to for assistance...........Well, so much for that advantage. Guess I will just purchase from the lowest cost online source in the future.

Here is the actual link to the website I used for PC e services because there are several companies with very similar names and some of them are not well reviewed by those who have worked with the other service providers.

Contact | PC eSupport

I know that from time to time some of our GTT family members have had issues which require assitance. My experience was very good with this company. I certainly hope that should anyone from the GTT family utilize this companies services, that they receive the same positive outcome and professional response and services which I did. I wanted to share this with all of you just in case you should need support for your computers or network, etc.
 

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The Geek Squad sounds like a division of Frontier.

Our work computers have Kaspersky and it doesn't seem to affect to operation of the computers. However, I run Malwarebytes regularly on mine just in case. I am not overly fond of Kaspersky. I think it is a Russian company which immediately puts it at the bottom of the list for me. I have previously stated that I still remember air raid drills because of the Russians.
 

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Sulley, thanks for sharing your experience. I bookmarked the PC e Support URL, just in case I ever need their sevices.

As for Security Software, I use Microsoft Security Essentials. It's a free software. It was suggested to me by a good friend who works for the IT department of our State University(Go Tigers).
I've use McAfee & Norton in the past. With both, I've had minor security issues. After downloading Microsoft Security Essentials a few years ago, I have had ZERO issues. Actually, I forget it's even installed and running. It automatically scans & updates regularly.
 

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Having worked for Best Buy from 84-93 when they were smaller and sales were on commission it pains me to see what they become. I opened #23 Davenport Ia and quickly worked my way to asst store manager. That was when customer service meant something now it's just a phrase. I won't shop there I usually shop SAMs club. Fortunely my oldest is a computer whiz and he handles all the problems. He should he learned his stuff with mom and dad keeping his computer up to date. I truly hate seeing what Best Buy has become
 

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Sulley Bear--i almost could of told u ur outcome from the geek squad, from my personal experience with them this last time.

my cost was $99 to fix mine. i would have to look it up, who fixed mine, i remember it was run by all vets. that's what caught my eye, in the ad.

they also called me several days later to see how it was working. great, i said-i said i am willing to pay ur $199 price for the year, how many times can i call for problems. he then proceeded to tell me he was a service contractor , in only fixing things, not a maintenance(don't remember right word) contractor, as i told him, if i got stuck with something, i just call the geek squad.

3 times was the limit he would work on mine per year for the $199. i'm taking my chances for now. aw-yeah he insisted i buy webroot to load on my computer for him to use also. as nice as he was, i think he was kinda on the shady shade too. but he fixed me up at the same time. he claimed he owned the patent to CCLeaner too.:dunno: i seen the geek squad use both of these on here, tuning it up at times.
 

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Thanks Sulley. We will be buying 2 new laptops within the next month. This will definitely help in our decision making process.
 

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Thanks Sulley. We will be buying 2 new laptops within the next month. This will definitely help in our decision making process.
Same here only I'm just buying one laptop. Was going to go to Best Buy's but now, I don't think so. Thanks Sulley!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The Geek Squad sounds like a division of Frontier.

Our work computers have Kaspersky and it doesn't seem to affect to operation of the computers. However, I run Malwarebytes regularly on mine just in case. I am not overly fond of Kaspersky. I think it is a Russian company which immediately puts it at the bottom of the list for me. I have previously stated that I still remember air raid drills because of the Russians.
Don, I thought of you and your "Frontier Wars" when the guy from Comcast was at my house. I will say that Comcast service Technician showed up exactly when they said he would be here and he checked the things I wanted him to check. He questioned why i had my Vonage modem hooked up in the manner which I do, but it has been that way for over 10 years and worked like a champ so I told him to leave it alone.

My only negative comment to the Comcast Tech was that I suggested he "remove" the shoe protectors from his boots once he goes back outside as he walked through my lawn with them on and was going to return to the inside of the house wearing them and we have off white carpet throughout.........It was Mrs. Bear speaking through me......:laugh:

Sulley, thanks for sharing your experience. I bookmarked the PC e Support URL, just in case I ever need their sevices.

As for Security Software, I use Microsoft Security Essentials. It's a free software. It was suggested to me by a good friend who works for the IT department of our State University(Go Tigers).
I've use McAfee & Norton in the past. With both, I've had minor security issues. After downloading Microsoft Security Essentials a few years ago, I have had ZERO issues. Actually, I forget it's even installed and running. It automatically scans & updates regularly.
I am actually using Microsoft security Essentials with my Windows 10 system now since this episode. The Geek Squad guy was VERY critical of Security Essentials and said it is "Scare Ware" and not real security software. I asked him why Microsoft would be able to build the most widely used operating system in the world yet, according to this guy, they are completely unable to protect the very system which they created. But I really didn't care what the Geek told me at that point. If he told me Thanksgiving was on this Thursday, I would double check the calendar to make sure he was correct........:lol:

I have a problem with the entire "Virus" industry. I have often wondered if the companies making the protection systems aren;'t also involved in providing "job protection" for themselves with virus creation activity. In a way, it's as illogical as claiming that Oncologists cause cancer, but there have been incidents over the 20 plus years that have caused me to go "Hmmmmmm" regarding the security software....SO for now, it's going to be Microsoft Security Essentials for me as well.......

Having worked for Best Buy from 84-93 when they were smaller and sales were on commission it pains me to see what they become. I opened #23 Davenport Ia and quickly worked my way to asst store manager. That was when customer service meant something now it's just a phrase. I won't shop there I usually shop SAMs club. Fortunely my oldest is a computer whiz and he handles all the problems. He should he learned his stuff with mom and dad keeping his computer up to date. I truly hate seeing what Best Buy has become
Drifterbike, I agree with you completely about Best Buy......

A few years ago, when I was out in Sturgis, South Dakota at the Rally in August, I went on from there to Billings, Mt and had Best Buy install a real comprehensive sound system and multiple Bose Surround Sound systems, one for each of the TV's in my Diesel Motor coach. They did a great job and it took 3 days for all of the installation to be done. The guy who was in charge of the install and I became friends. He had me over one night to his home and he and his fiance made me dinner. They were planning on getting married the next year the same week of the Sturgis Rally and they invited me to their wedding and I told them I would be there.

The next August, I was staying in Deadwood and I rode over to Billings, MT and attended their wedding and reception and I stayed overnight in the down town Hilton or Marriott or whatever the big hotel is in downtown Billings. He and his bride were very surprised to see me show up at their wedding and the reception since it was a year later and a round trip ride of about 600 miles. But I said I would be there and I was. They have now relocated out to the Seattle area..........Nice couple.

But Best Buy then verses now is a completely different company. I had owned their stock for many years, and I have been in and out of it over time. I first bought it back in 1997 when it was around $2.75 per share and I held it until the end of 2007 and sold it when the stock was around $52 per share. I was convinced that the economy was imploding and consumer spending would be severely affected and that is exactly what occurred. The stock then plummeted to around $11.85 by the end of 2012 and I repurchased it, because the company was making moves to restructure itself. By the end of 2013, it was back up to $43 per share and it was time for me to exit once again.

With what I have personally experienced with Best Buy and with the severe competition they are under from online and other retailers, I think I am done with their stock. I often like to invest in what I call my "Checkbook stocks" which boils down to investing in the companies where I am a consumer. I own O'Reilly Automotive and Verizon and Domino's Pizza and I had owned Sonic recently but sold out a few months ago. But I think Best Buy is in serious trouble as a company and has lost me as a customer.

Unless they make some drastic changes, I don't really see a path forward for Best Buy like I once did..............Sadly, I think they are soon to be one of the "former" brick and mortar retailers.........:dunno:
 

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SulleyBear i saw it from the inside. When i went to work for them in 84 they were a growing company going through growing pains. Inventory storages, I.T. Problems, Failed foray into video rental, ETC. i was with them the sales were on commision then after i left they went to clerck type salespeople. No one i worked with is still in the local store. You walk in there its like going to walmart on a Sunday. the expertise is lacking in must areas, and initiative is not there. I worked has salesman, department manager, Sales Manager, and finally Asst. Store Manager. I left when i was told I was being made Sotre manager of the new store on the south side of Milwaukee. No thanks!! They turned and burned alot of quality people. When they went public the big jump up followed by the big decline was bound to happen. I ran in to Brad Anderson the #2 man when it started and he's Happy he out. I can't complain about my time there but it pains me to see what they become. I think your outlook for them is correct.:banghead::banghead:
 

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I remember when Best Buy moved into the Dayton area back in the mid-90's. Good selection back then, but they played the music in the store so loud that I had a headache when I left. And I was young back then! :laugh: Back then they had a lot of competition around here - CompUSA, HH Gregg, Circuit City, some regional electronics stores, etc. Not many of those guys left around here, just Best Buy.

I rarely go in there unless I need something that I don't want to wait on Amazon to deliver. The last thing I bought was a camera that I needed/wanted immediately. A month or so before that I bought a little Lenovo mini-laptop/tablet to replace a Nook that died. The camera was $69 and the Lenovo was $229. On both of them they tried to sell me the extended protection and on the Lenovo they pushed hard to get me to buy the Geek-Squad contract. Passed on all of that.

I won't go shopping there for my "serious" computer needs. I can't stand the pierced, purple dyed-hair "experts" that work there. About a year ago I was considering buying a Microsoft surface to potentially replace my laptop. I develop ERP software, so my horsepower needs are a little different that what I needed the tablet for. The kid that was "waiting on me" was a rude little so and so! :banghead: I asked him if the Surface could be configured with any more than 16GB of RAM and he said "nobody needs more than 16GB of RAM in a laptop. You must be one serious gamer!" I just walked off at that point.

Sully - as always, your analysis is super interesting! THANKS for taking the time to post it. Also, thanks to whoever suggested MS Security Essentials. I think I might look into that. I used to run Norton and then got talked into Avast buy a guy at a local computer shop. I downloaded the free edition and even did one paid upgrade for it. But it seems like every time I turn around, I'm getting prompted to purchase yet another "upgraded product" for them.
 

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I'm a software developer at a large chemical company. The company has many virus countermeasures, but on all their machines, they use MS Security Essentials. Never had a problem, that I know of.

For my personal computers at home, etc. I have a Mac (for iOS development) and the rest of our machines run Linux. The whole family has been Microsoft-free for over a decade. Just can't stand that company.

YMMV.
 

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I'm a software developer at a large chemical company. The company has many virus countermeasures, but on all their machines, they use MS Security Essentials. Never had a problem, that I know of.

For my personal computers at home, etc. I have a Mac (for iOS development) and the rest of our machines run Linux. The whole family has been Microsoft-free for over a decade. Just can't stand that company.

YMMV.
If you don't mind my asking, since you have been Microsoft free what do you all use for word processing, spreadsheets and such? Just curious.
 

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I don't use that stuff a great deal, but when I do, I use either Google Docs/Sheets/etc., or Libre Office. Libre works very well for my limited needs. I don't do fancy pivot tables, etc., so I don't have a great deal of input on hoe it handles that advanced stuff.
 

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I don't use that stuff a great deal, but when I do, I use either Google Docs/Sheets/etc., or Libre Office. Libre works very well for my limited needs. I don't do fancy pivot tables, etc., so I don't have a great deal of input on hoe it handles that advanced stuff.
Thanks, I have never used Google Docs, but I have used Libre Office. I have also used Softmaker Office Professional. It is very good and in some ways better than MS Office.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks, I have never used Google Docs, but I have used Libre Office. I have also used Softmaker Office Professional. It is very good and in some ways better than MS Office.
I run Firefox as a browser and they have that program which is very similar to Microsoft Office, except it is FREE. I used to do very advanced presentations in Office but ironically, my most effective sales results remain with a single sheet of paper and a pen. I closed a case yesterday with an annual budget of about $2 million using the same single piece of paper / keeping it simple approach. But interestingly I have found when I can get in front of the business owner, they usually want it very cut to the point (as do I) and it's the management levels beneath the "boss" who seem impressed with lots of spread sheets and analysis.

I do donate money every year to Firefox and the "Free Program" which offers the Office like platform as they are managed by a bunch of volunteer's and need to cover their overhead. I really appreciate the fact that there are people who will donate their time and resources to develop and make available choices like Firefox through Mozilla.

Once I went to Firefox, I can't even imagine using any other browser. Firefox seems so logical to me and simple. I am running Windows 10 and I am not a fan of the "Window Panes" or whatever they call them. Sometimes, it seems that companies change things for the sake of change and not necessarily to improve the end user's experience.

While I have been a long time Apple stock owner, I am not a fan of their IPhones or even their computers. I have used the Mac's and they seem like nice machines, but I just prefer to stick with what I am familiar. I do own a old time 160GB IPod Classic which I like and use all of the time. But with only 600 songs on it, I doubt my small purchases of music from Apple have ever had much of an impact in the stock price.....:laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'm a software developer at a large chemical company. The company has many virus countermeasures, but on all their machines, they use MS Security Essentials. Never had a problem, that I know of.

For my personal computers at home, etc. I have a Mac (for iOS development) and the rest of our machines run Linux. The whole family has been Microsoft-free for over a decade. Just can't stand that company.

YMMV.
To me, it seems logical that the company who makes the operating system should be pretty good about defending and protecting it. I have been surprised at the comments of many of those like the Geek Squad, etc. claiming that Microsoft Essentials is worthless or as the one guy kept saying, "Only Scareware"....They are almost universally negative about Microsoft Security Essentials, but it also is part of Windows and not a separate product like many or most of the other "Security Software" products out there.

I watched the show on Showtime last night about the computer virus, Stuxnet, which the U.S. "allegedly" developed in conjunction with Israel to delay the Iranian nuclear capabilities. Listening to the "experts" in computer security talk about it, nothing is beyond the reach of those intent on getting into it. The use of cyber warfare is something which needs real leadership because this is an extremely dangerous area. It was really interesting to see how the virus was written to function on it's own and not require any outside intervention once it was launched. However, it also means that once the switch is thrown, there is no going back and changing your mind.

The Stuxnet "program" really could have turned into a complete international disaster very easily. For those of you who are not familiar with this entire situation, I strongly encourage you to view the "documentary" which is being aired now about it. Computers can reach out and kill people by making machines malfunction and numerous other ways. In many respects, this is a greater threat to mankind than the use of nuclear weapons as the cyber warfare doesn't require a "State sponsor" or even a "Military" to launch and cause destruction, chaos and even death. Someone with bad intentions and computer capabilities can cause chaos at various levels.

To this day, the U.S. won't discuss Stuxnet or even comment on it. But of course, there are people who claim to have been involved in the program who will talk about it and have. Thinking through the possibilities and consequences of cyber warfare will definitely keep you from sleeping well at night..........and it should.
 

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To me, it seems logical that the company who makes the operating system should be pretty good about defending and protecting it.
If the company actually does anything about it. MS and Apple were both at fault for this in past years, but seems they are both more intent on helping now.

I watched the show on Showtime last night about the computer virus, Stuxnet, which the U.S. "allegedly" developed in conjunction with Israel to delay the Iranian nuclear capabilities. Listening to the "experts" in computer security talk about it, nothing is beyond the reach of those intent on getting into it. The use of cyber warfare is something which needs real leadership because this is an extremely dangerous area. It was really interesting to see how the virus was written to function on it's own and not require any outside intervention once it was launched. However, it also means that once the switch is thrown, there is no going back and changing your mind.

The Stuxnet "program" really could have turned into a complete international disaster very easily. For those of you who are not familiar with this entire situation, I strongly encourage you to view the "documentary" which is being aired now about it. Computers can reach out and kill people by making machines malfunction and numerous other ways. In many respects, this is a greater threat to mankind than the use of nuclear weapons as the cyber warfare doesn't require a "State sponsor" or even a "Military" to launch and cause destruction, chaos and even death. Someone with bad intentions and computer capabilities can cause chaos at various levels.

To this day, the U.S. won't discuss Stuxnet or even comment on it. But of course, there are people who claim to have been involved in the program who will talk about it and have. Thinking through the possibilities and consequences of cyber warfare will definitely keep you from sleeping well at night..........and it should.
I believe the US was involved. It's interesting to note the Stuxnet worm was found on non-Iranian non-SCADA computers. For those computers, they did nothing but spread the worm. It was programmed to only target specific computers.

More commonly, what most people are blind to, though, is that cars with built-in WiFi are very susceptible to hackers. I can't see why anyone wants to travel in these cars, let alone buy them:

https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/

People need to get their heads out of their devices.

Sulleybear are you using OpenOffice?
I have used LibreOffice and OpenOffice. I never had an issue with either of them. I only switched to LibreOffice as it was supplied by my Linux distribution. It just made patching all of the software easier.
 

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Sulleybear are you using OpenOffice?
Yes, that's the program name.....I have found no issues with it other than every now and then there would be small procedural differences. I can't recall exactly what they are but it seems like the auto sum total feature in Excel was different than it's Open Office counter part.........But it was figured out in just a few moments and once adopted, I soon forgot the Excel method........
 
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