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Needing some ZTR Education

5K views 23 replies 12 participants last post by  coaltrain 
#1 ·
Hi everyone. I'm toying with the idea of adding a ZTR for my mowing chores around my property. Out of my just-under 3.0 acres, I mow roughly 1 acre, most of it gets done weekly, a portion bi-weekly. My X500 w/ 48" Edge Deck is a good mower, but I'm looking for more speed as well as the maneuverability around things (mulched tree circles, mulched flower beds around house, etc.).

So in my reading, everyone states that the cut quality of a zero-turn is very, very good. My X500 does an OK job - not fantastic (mulching kit is installed). But I find I can't mow that fast, even with very sharp blades. I end up crushing and pushing over grass instead of cutting. Is this issue eliminated (mostly) with a ZTR? If I bought one, I'd go with the 7-Iron deck, which advertises higher blade speed.

I guess my question really comes down to: What makes the ZTR so much better at mowing other than you can turn on a dime? That part is obvious. What makes the cut quality that much better?

My ground is lumpy here and there...some uneven areas....I do not own a golf-course type of lawn, unfortunately.

Thanks for any information.
 
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#2 ·
Zero turn mowers usually have faster blade and ground speed. However how rough the yard is will have a lot to do with how fast you can mow. Some ZT's will handle bumps better than others. Would recommend getting one to road test on your lot before taking the plunge.

Maybe try removing the mulch kit on your 500 and see if that helps. Was cutting my daughter's place with my 540 last week. It was a long day and I just wanted to be done with it. So I was pushing the 540 a lot faster than usual. To my surprise it handled the extra speed no problem. However I always run it side discharge.

You can also try moving the position of the seat springs to see if that helps. Depending on your weight moving them forward will give you a softer ride.
 
#3 ·
We just bought a new zero turn. Brought it home yesterday. It's much smoother than my old 332 we had and we can cover a bunch of ground quick. One of its benefits is the deck is shaft driven and then there is one huge belt that runs the deck spindles. I'm a pretty big Deere guy but check out the kubota commercial mowers. It's hard to describe how much faster it is. If you were close you could come take it for a spin. Its one of those things you have to experience to know what we're talking about.

Brett
 

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#7 ·
Looked at the ZD1211 my self this spring very nice and diesel. around 15,500 around here. You might want to look at the Deere 900 series, Maybe find a demo the dealer wants to get rid of this time of year. If you want to try one they will bring out their Demo for you. I had a Z970R I bought used with 220 hours with a 72" deck. It was a great machine and mowed well and fast. Problem I am a large man and when I went to his reverse my BELLY was in the way. I mowed with it one time and took it back and put the money towards a 2038R I have on order. The mower was very nice and rode great but not enough room for my belly.
 
#9 ·
We are usually the ones to have bad luck and that was the motivation for the kubota diesel. If Deere had a diesel zero turn besides the 997 and it's price point we would still be green. When we went to the dealer we started 3 mowers....I use that term loosely. The first one wouldn't start, second would only stay running while you had the choke on and the third one was smoking like a freight train. These were 10k mowers. Some with mod and tweels. After that I decided there was no way I was getting a gas. I would be having to have work done every year for bad gas at the way my luck goes. Deere makes a great mower, just wished they had another diesel offering that was less expensive than 20k

Brett
 
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#8 ·
Speed and maneuverability are the plus things with the Z Trak, comfortable ride on rough ground, not so much.
Get some kind of suspension seat, the standard seats just don't get it.

Ground can be smoothed out with time and patience, slowly been smoothing my ground out over the last 3 years,
can run full speed probably 70% of the time now.

Has cut my mowing time more than in half, very nice cut appearance for a 72" deck.

Think blade tip speed is 300 FPS, which is the length of a football field a second, or 18,000 FPM which figures to be 204 MPH.
 
#11 ·
So, this is getting close to answering my question - I appreciate all the other replies, but I'm looking for the answer to "Why?" Again, everyone says how wonderful they are, which I get it on ground speed and maneuvering. But how can the deck cut any better than the same size deck on a tractor? Why? How?

Is the blade speed that much higher than a garden tractor mower (like my X500 48" Edge deck)? They don't seem to publish blade speeds for the tractors, but I notice they do for ZTR's. If the blade speed isn't published for the tractor mowers, how do we know they're faster?

Sorry guys, I feel like I'm being thick-headed here...not my intention. Just trying to understand how one gives a better cut versus the other.
 
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#12 ·
As others mentioned a ZTR will ride a lot rougher than a tractor. I shaved a lot of time off mowing, partly because of a little bigger deck (60" vs 54"), partly because I make one trip around trees rather than two, partly because when I get to the end of a run it simply turns around quicker. Add all this up and you get time savings. One thing to keep in mind though on that turn around, you can spin it on a dime but you will shred your grass. I normally do 3 pt turns still but it is still quicker than turning the steering wheel even with a knob. I cut at a little higher ground speed. As for the blade speed, yes it is faster, this helps create more suction for pulling the blades of grass up to be clipped. It also discharges the clippings over a much larger area.

They are not perfect. The rough ride has been mentioned. They can be a handful on hilly ground. Mainly going downhill can be dangerous and you can go out of control not being able to turn or stop. Going across hills you have to crab them because the front wheels provide little to no lateral stability. Going up hills they are great but this means you have to potentially back down hills. Some models have poor rear visibility. For instance my Z950R when I have the MCS Hopper on the back, I can't see anything behind the machine.

As for gas vs diesel. Personal preference. I don't mind gas. I don't have anything diesel anymore. If I eventually move up to a new machine to replace the X585 then it will be diesel since they don't make a FEL for the X series anymore. So I will have to go with a 1 Series at a minimum. I am not afraid of diesel, I drove a Jetta TDI until the diesel gate scandal and they bought it back. It is nice to not have to worry about winter and summer diesel and additives. Gelling probably isn't much of an issue in a mower but it is in the tractor which now sees much less use being it is retired from mowing. It is nice to have a machine dedicated for FEL work though. Never really have much problem with bad gas as stuff gets used enough.

Like others said, see if your dealer will do a demo. You never know how well it works for you until you try it on your yard. I bought a demo unit at the end of the year and got a pretty good deal on it in my eyes. The nice thing about a demo is John Deere doesn't recognize "Demo" machines. So I qualified for the 0% 60mo offer at the time on new Z9xx machines. I got a discount on the sale and the warranty inception date was the day I bought it not when they started using it for demos. Sure there are some hours on it but the R models have a 3year/1500 hr warranty and there is no way I will hit 1500 hrs in 3 years cutting my yard.

If looking at them I would be cautious with the MOD deck. I read a lot of poor reviews of them. They tend to clump up a lot of grass. Tweels if you want them but if you are thinking you want a MCS, technically they are not compatible. I think it is a weight thing. There isn't an interference issue. I have seen some photos of people using them. In my mind they look cool but I wasn't going to pay $1K. If I was a commercial mower and there was lots of broken glass and nails around where I mow it is different. Even if I got a flat, it isn't a big deal to be down for a few days or week while I order a replacement tire. These are things that don't apply to me in cutting my grass. Granted if ordering new I think they are cheaper than $1K.

The Z915B/E is not a bad deal for the machine. The one thing that sucks is that you can't order it with the full suspension seat. If you want one you can order all the parts and it is about $1K. Or go to Nothern Tool. They sell what looks like an identical seat for something like $300. Maybe buy that seat and swap out the black seating surface for the yellow from the John Deere. Or look at a puffer air seat conversion kit. I think that is about $400.
 
#13 ·
I think that the ZT cuts better because that's all the deck and chassis are designed to do. However they have some other drawbacks as mentioned above. A tractor has many uses including cutting grass.
 
#15 ·
Thanks very much for the additional input. I should have mentioned I have spent some time on a Scag zero-turn for a youth camp I help out at on occasion. So, I understand how efficient they are at the whole dedication to one task. I would mow down the horse pasture for them on occasion when the horses weren't staying there. Incredible machine and fast, no doubt.

I just kept seeing a mower deck is a mower deck is a mower deck. Blades spinning a shaft, blowing out grass.

High blade speed does make sense for a better cut quality. It seems that if I want to be serious about a zero-turn, I need a shaft-drive deck. And, the big payoff will be the time I save over using my x500.

I bet if would take the mulch kit off my x500, it would probably do better. i hate losing my mulcher though....it does work quite well, I never have clippings...and having a dog, its nice not having clippings getting pulled into the house.

So....a test drive/ demo is maybe in order before I finalize my plan. Right now, its either a zero-turn plus older tractor w/ FEL or its just get a 1025R w/ FEL and MMM and sell the X500.

Thanks again, everyone.
 
#17 ·
That's why I recommended taking the mulching kit off and try cutting side discharge. As long as I don't wait longer than a week to cut my lots the clippings basically disappear. However my side job lot is usually around 10 days between cutting. So that one has a carpet of dead grass when I'm done with it. He's to cheep to have me come more often so that's what he gets. Plus all this rain isn't helping.

When I had my old house it was a 1/3 acre lot. Always mulched with my L108 & JS61 mowers. Never had a problem. When I started doing property management with the same equipment mulching didn't cut it. So I have been doing the side discharge method ever since.
 
#21 ·
I'll have to disagree with a ZTR riding more rough than a tractor. I mowed for two years with a 2015 X590, ranging from 4 1/2 to 5 hours with a 54" deck. We traded our 2015 1025R even up for a 2017 Z950R, and cut the mowing down to 1 hour and 50 minutes. It has a suspension seat, ZGlide suspension, and rear Tweel tires. I couldn't be more impressed with the ride! We kept our X590 for snow removal and to mow close to the pond.

Land vehicle Vehicle Tractor Agricultural machinery Grass
 
#22 · (Edited)
997s have been priced out of the market because of Tier 4 emissions. I'll buy another 997 (I need a 72" deck and they're insanely expensive) but it will be a low hour, pre emissions one.

The blade speed makes a huge difference on the 997/ztr deck. I sorta used my last set of blades for mulching, um, rather large twigs and the blades were, well, rounded and the mower still cut the grass respectively. Blade speed and suction are keys. After I mow, you don't see the smashed grass paths because the deck pulls the grass up. The deck does a good job of following the ground contour and doesn't scalp.

I've hit rocks, boulders, logs, trees, metal posts, wooden posts, barbed wire, concrete and more dirt than the entire state of Vermont has and I'm still on the original 8 year belts. I've moved cars, utility poles, downed trees, a tractor and multiple trailers with the deck; it's a phenomenal bulldozer. The only complaint I have is in regard to the spindle covers (a different thread) but that issue is easily solved. My deck is missing paint, but there's not a dent on it.

So, after the abuse, tall grass (4' tall is my personal record), many hours, six sets of blades and lots of grease, this deck still cuts perfect. When I walk by the garden tractors at my JD dealer, I'm pretty sure they tremble....

The below picture was taken the day after I mowed. You can see the tire tracks but the cut was clean. The dandelion stalks did pop up but my blades were completely round so no surprise there.
 

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#23 ·
997s have been priced out of the market because of Tier 4 emissions. I'll buy another 997 (I need a 72" deck and they're insanely expensive) but it will be a low hour, pre emissions one.
Yup, I'm glade I bought the 997 before they came out with the 997R, the 997R has 5 or 6 more horses, but the price increase
is truly insane, plus the Tier 4 stuff is more things to go bad. :banghead:
 
#24 ·
As far as the deck itself, blade tip speed is only part of the equation. The design of the deck itself has a lot to do with it. The deeper the deck the better. Compare the depth of the deck on a commercial grade zero turn to a more generic type deck on a lawn tractor.

Along with the depth of the deck the design is important also. The deck needs to crate a vacuum to lift grass and also proper passages to get the cut grass out of the deck efficiently. Also the paint or coating is important. You will notice a much higher quality paint of finish on a commercial grade mower. This means grass will not stick to it and flow easily out of the deck.
 
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