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:ROFLMAO:

My 70 mustang had 4 seats in it.:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: good luck to whatever poor soul decided to climb back there. Had to pull them out by their feet.

Look, I was actually looking at the Ford F150 EV to replace my wife's Tahoe. Starting out at 40k with vinyl floor contractor package. Xlt starting out close to 60k. No thanks. By the time I pay the overpriced truck off I'll be replacing an expensive battery. I pass a field of what looks like 250+ prius's on the way to my hunt club. Not wrecked, all look perfectly fine, I'm betting the battery cost replacement was more than the vehicle.

Alright back to topic of little bad gas weed eaters
The Mach E Mustang has four doors so I think getting in the backseat shouldn’t be an issue.
Toyota has been building the Prius for almost 20 years. They’re one of the most reliable and cheapest forms of transportation available and have been for a long time. I don’t think battery replacement is super costly for a Prius. They still have gas engines that can run them “normally”.
*Edit- Prius debuted 25 years ago way back in 1997!!!
The F150 Lightning looks to be a sales superstar from the preorders. For those wanting a truck without needing long range tow capacity it should be a great choice. Also great for local contractors/HVAC/electricians who don’t drive far everyday but need a truck for cargo capacity.
 

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Doesn't this proposed law just prohibit the sale of less than 25hp equipment? I don't see where the existing equipment will be outlawed (at least not yet). People are just going to start hoarding this stuff... it will become the new toilet paper! :LOL:
 

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Likely all of us on this forum will be dead long before the switch to electric powered vehicles happens, let alone interfering with our drives in our petroleum fueled vehicles

Look at history. When I was a child there were no commercial jet airplanes. When you occasionally heard a military jet overhead, folks would run outside to see it.There were computers, but they filled entire rooms, and would be outclassed by any of today's smart phones.There were no interstate highways. Cars cost about a year;s salary, just like they do today. There were no LED lights, There were no lasers. 3-D printing - a dream you saw in Popular Science magazine. And satellites - kids in my generation stood outside at night and waited to catch a glimpse of the Echo satellite.. Electric vehicles are jjust another step in innovation, like the horseless carriage and propeller airplanes were in my great-grandfathers life. And tractors replacing the mules for my grandfather.
The oft-quoted sequence of obsolescence that you and and many folks often make when discussing electric vehicles misses one really big point. The most important one.

We went from mules to tractors or walking to automobiles or from steam locomotives to diesels because one form proved superior to another.

Not because the government taxed or legislated the superior form into existence. Or clubbed the other one to death.

Those who make these discussions often forget about the popularity of battery powered delivery vehicles in the early 1900s. They died off not because the government subsidized Standard Oil but because gasoline engine vehicles proved superior.
 

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The Mach E Mustang has four doors so I think getting in the backseat shouldn’t be an issue.
Toyota has been building the Prius for almost 20 years. They’re one of the most reliable and cheapest forms of transportation available and have been for a long time. I don’t think battery replacement is super costly for a Prius. They still have gas engines that can run them “normally”.
*Edit- Prius debuted 25 years ago way back in 1997!!!
The F150 Lightning looks to be a sales superstar from the preorders. For those wanting a truck without needing long range tow capacity it should be a great choice. Also great for local contractors/HVAC/electricians who don’t drive far everyday but need a truck for cargo capacity.
Your right, pour billions of taxpayer dollars into chargers.
 

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Your right, pour billions of taxpayer dollars into chargers.
Where did I say to spend billions of tax dollars on chargers?
Most EV charging is done at home while you sleep, not stopping at the “free” charger at CVS on your way there to charge up.
And at this point it’s not really tax dollars. They’re just printing money that will never be repaid at this point. Why do we need to pay taxes if they can just print whatever money they want to spend?
 

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Where did I say to spend billions of tax dollars on chargers?
Most EV charging is done at home while you sleep, not stopping at the “free” charger at CVS on your way there to charge up.
And at this point it’s not really tax dollars. They’re just printing money that will never be repaid at this point. Why do we need to pay taxes if they can just print whatever money they want to spend?
My original post was that I don't know why the gov needs to subsidize charging stations. Then you responded with Tesla's not subsidized and I said yes they are not. Then for some reason I was taken to electric vehicle school and how great they are. I agree they are cool but not practical for 90 percent of the nation, so why push it. Let it just happen. Then I got tired of going circles with you about your opinion on how good the pricing and usefulness of the various electric vehicles are. So I figured you'd like the new gov charging stations.

Again back to topic. I'll bet this thread will be closed shortly because of how much we've talked about big brother already. I get it. You like electric vehicles.
 

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Please gentlemen, let’s keep politics out of this. 👍🏼
 

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Funny how I'm in BTWn this thread and getting packed up ready to go help my brother clear his property this week. Packing up the MS 291, and MS 170 and 1gal of earth killing 2 stroke gas that'll cut more wood than I want to deal with.

Chainsaw Saw Automotive tire Asphalt Bumper
 

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Gimme a break. Any of the affordable electric vehicles can only transport a couple people at best with no gear and are just plain ugly.

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of electric vehicles. There just not practical for 90 percent of America. So why mandate anything at this point. Tesla has hands down the best looking and most room of all the electric vehicles. Making mandates and subsidized to make it look good and work never survives. Electric vehicles will happen, we're just not there yet.

Edit- New admin wants to spend 7.5 BILLION dollars for electric vehicle chargers. Crazy amount of money.
So, I don't think we're far apart. I have eight vehicles right now and none are electric. My last purchase was an F-150 with a Coyote. I missed having a V8! Granted, most of my vehicles have 4-cylinder engines (1.6L, 2.5L, 6.0L). Two have 3-cylinder (800cc and 1.3L). Two sixes (3.0L and 3.5L), and these two are the real daily drivers. One 8 (5.0L). Yeah, electric doesn't work for me...yet.

Some things need a government kick, some don't. Whether EVs would be where they are without the current kick, I don't know. The jury is out...we make our best guesses and different parts of the country and the world will guess differently. And that's OK.

The comparison to the original battery vehicles at the turn of the century being driven to gas via the market doesn't apply here as an apples-to-apples comparison. The motivations to move from one form to the other then was purely personal: pick the one that works for your needs. Gas won handily. For this transition, the move is motivated by global, distributed need. Personal preference isn't going to do it. For a moment, let's put aside any personal beliefs and just take the need at face value. You're charged with making a change happen and it's one you know won't happen fast enough (or at all) on market forces. As a government, you basically have two levers to pull: money or mandate.

Which do you pick? In the case of cars, it's been money. In the case of small engines in California, it's mandate. I'm not sure what other tools there are.

Debate on whether that change is needed is fine and should be somewhere other than this thread. It will turn political.
 

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Heh, well it doesn't take much of an imagination to figure that the high gas prices are a deliberate attempt to drive consumers towards electric.

Don't get me wrong, I think for someone who only needs to drive a few miles into the city for work or whatever, an electric vehicle could make sense. Then there are those of us who like to take backroads and drive thru the middle of nowhere to get where we're going while avoiding the urban clutter. And there are those of us who like to venture off road, away from pavement and civilization. For that, having an electric vehicle makes no sense.

As said before, it should not be forced on people. Let the market decide instead, let people buy whichever suits them best. If I want a gas chainsaw and a diesel truck, that should be my choice. Meanwhile if my neighbor down the road wants a cordless weed wacker and an electric car, that should be his choice.
Electric motors are great, they are very simple, reliable, quiet, require very little maintenance, and have great power curves compared to internal combustion engines. For example, a typical 3 phase induction motor has one moving part and a 200% torque rise. (We think we're doing really well with only a 40% torque rise on a turbodiesel engine!) They are obviously preferred by the market over engines due to these factors, else we would see a bunch of stationary equipment using engines instead of nearly all of it using electric motors. We would thus not be even using engines at all if we had a way to suitably power motors in portable and mobile applications. The issue is that we really don't. Batteries are heavy, expensive, contain hazardous and toxic materials, have a poor energy density, and take a long time to recharge. They suffice for some applications, and in those applications, they are certainly used. But they are poor for other applications, and in those applications, they are NOT currently used to much of an extent. The market will only change to electric motor-powered portable and mobile equipment if and only if there is a reasonable way to power it, and when that happens, the market WILL change all on its own. There is nothing to be gained by forcing anything.

Probably the only reason the market wouldn't move to battery-electric equipment would be is if electricity can't be obtained in sufficient quantities and for reasonable prices compared to hydrocarbon fuels. This is not a minor concern as this kind of equipment uses a lot of electricity and we are already having issues with power generation and transmission as evidenced by constant brownouts in California and the issues with blackouts this February. We need to add a bunch of generation and transmission capacity to simply meet current needs, let alone adding a bunch of new load to the grid.
 

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You're charged with making a change happen and it's one you know won't happen fast enough (or at all) on market forces.
This is probably where you and I differ the most. What change and how quickly do you think it needs to happen? Why can it not wait another 10 years or more?. There's a massive amount of oil left underground. 1.5 Trillion of barrels estimated. Wasn't long ago, uhem, yr or so ago and oil companies were giving it away.

Edit- whoops 1 too many trillions
 

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Heh, well it doesn't take much of an imagination to figure that the high gas prices are a deliberate attempt to drive consumers towards electric.

Don't get me wrong,.
There’s nothing to imagine, they will happily tell you that’s the plan.

If you think it’s more complicated you probably are mistaken, in exactly the manor they hope for.

Energy generation in a usable form costs money, and causes pollution. Energy is needed to create any product. If the buyers of turbines or solar panels had to store the waste created making them there would be 0 customers.

Coal is dirty so you can see it’s pollution. The manufacturing of solar panels makes more toxic waste then Erin brockovich can even comprehend.
 

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Big tech competing with big oil is all I see here.
Funniest thing is that batteries and gas are way more inefficient than other options out there being swept under the rug
 

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Since this is bordering on the political edge of blue Loctite maybe a brief hijack is in order to save the thread.

Can someone explain to me how my Stihl chainsaw can sit for months - even as long as a year - with the same gas mix as the Stihl weedeater and pole saw and still start right up every time without any problems from ethanol yet the other tools need to have the tank drained and the carb run dry if they will be left sitting more than a month. Same gas with the same Stihl branded synthetic 50:1 oil and stored in the same building. The saw always runs. I know it is because they have different carbs and fuel supply systems so why can't they put the same stuff on the other motors that the saw uses? It is like a plot against me. That is why I went to battery electrics for the lighter duty stuff and not because I am trying to save the planet, although I do feel the planet is worth saving.

Answer that one for me and you all can get back to blaming the Californians. Thanks!
 

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Doesn't this proposed law just prohibit the sale of less than 25hp equipment? I don't see where the existing equipment will be outlawed (at least not yet). People are just going to start hoarding this stuff... it will become the new toilet paper! :LOL:
Every time I see this being reported they do say the future "sale" of equipment. I have not heard anything about prohibition of existing equipment (I'm sure they are working on that aspect). I agree with your comment. That's why I commented that existing landscapers will be buying up inventory at some point to last them through retirement. :)

On the other hand, I wonder if the prohibition on sale also covers the sale of used equipment and private sales?
 
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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
I don't think combustion engines are going anywhere anytime soon. Maybe the small ones like weed wackers and such but not larger ones, there is waaaayyyy too much money to be made yet by Big Oil!
You need to track Big Oil a little closer. Their shareholders are demanding change to green. They are not investing in replacing their reserves and some banks now are refusing to loan them money for oil drill projects. The Green Revolution has changed its tactics and is now going after the funding of Big Oil and it's Board of Directors.
 
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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
Since this is bordering on the political edge of blue Loctite maybe a brief hijack is in order to save the thread.

Can someone explain to me how my Stihl chainsaw can sit for months - even as long as a year - with the same gas mix as the Stihl weedeater and pole saw and still start right up every time without any problems from ethanol yet the other tools need to have the tank drained and the carb run dry if they will be left sitting more than a month. Same gas with the same Stihl branded synthetic 50:1 oil and stored in the same building. The saw always runs. I know it is because they have different carbs and fuel supply systems so why can't they put the same stuff on the other motors that the saw uses? It is like a plot against me. That is why I went to battery electrics for the lighter duty stuff and not because I am trying to save the planet, although I do feel the planet is worth saving.

Answer that one for me and you all can get back to blaming the Californians. Thanks!
Doesn't this proposed law just prohibit the sale of less than 25hp equipment? I don't see where the existing equipment will be outlawed (at least not yet). People are just going to start hoarding this stuff... it will become the new toilet paper! :LOL:
I think commercial guys will keep a stash of mowers for as long as they can. I see used prices of gas mowers going up for a little while and then crashing. John Doe will go to the Big Box store and buy whatever is offered regardless of the technology.
 
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I think commercial guys will keep a stash of mowers for as long as they can. I see used prices of gas mowers going up for a little while and then crashing. John Doe will go to the Big Box store and buy whatever is offered regardless of the technology.

I've been stashing old school Husky XP saws. Might just buy another 395XP and not even open the box.

This attitude is closer than you guys think:
California quickly moving to wipe out the lawn care industry
 
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So I am fully in support of battery powered tools where they fit...I recently had a fairly large tree fall down, the trunk of which is way more than I want to try to cut with my battery saw so I started trimming the branches first...man this tree is stout, like iron. Getting the branches down to the 10-15 inch size I was going through a 4ah battery in 3 cuts. So I have a Stihl saw MS210c that is like 17 years old...hasn't been started in forever, I break it out, find fuel in the tank still...oh this is going to be fun. I clean up the spark plug, put fresh fuel in and what do you know starts up fine...well doesn't want to pull high RPMs at first, until it warmed up but finally got going. The tree was tough on the gas powered saw as well but going through batteries that fast it just made sense to get the gas saw out. I still haven't tackled the main trunk yet but temps are cooling back off so will probably get back on that soon. Like TyBoo posted earlier I'm amazed that it started after all that time especially after leaving fuel in the tank that long. They have some special magic in those chain saws.

Gas has it's place right now, and the battery technology is catching up, has already in many aspects but there are improvements still yet to come.
 

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Interesting thread. Lots of vehicle talk, I wonder how many are 25hp or less.

Will there be a corresponding disposal fee for pre-ban ICE of 25hp or less?

Will the ban just be on new sales or on all small ICE no matter how long you have had them?

Anyone working on a zero loss extension cord? Until fuel cell or battery technology really take off I can envision a half-mile long extension cord being useful in my yard.

I can't remember, but weren't gas turbine engines considered more efficient than reciprocating engines? What happened to them? How small could thay go?

Anyone working on a Mr Fusion like the one from the movie Back to the Future? I wouldn't mind having a couple of those even if I had to tow them instead of carry them.

Remember when the best LEDs could do was indicate, no real illumination. They are coming into their own now. It would be nice if batteries could follow suit.

I'm in NY so we seem to get the bother without the benefits of CA emission regulations.
 
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