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I used a battery saw on a 8" Douglas Fir.
I got it down but it took all the saw could do.
The saw weighed half as much as a real man's saw...oops shouldn't have said it that way😏!
Anyway The saw and chain were new.
I had to push down somewhat on the bar as there was no weight. The saw wanted to bounce against the hard wood.
An odd feeling cutting a tree...tiresome too.
It just took too long for what I was doing.
A good gas saw for me...not a plastic light weight toy.
 

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This is probably where you and I differ the most. What change and how quickly do you think it needs to happen? Why can it not wait another 10 years or more?. There's a massive amount of oil left underground. 1.5 Trillion of barrels estimated. Wasn't long ago, uhem, yr or so ago and oil companies were giving it away.

Edit- whoops 1 too many trillions
Oh yeah, there's plenty of oil. We don't disagree. The problem is the capacity to deal with results after you've used the oil.

As noted above, this thread bordering on getting locked and I guess I'm not really helping matters. I was being a little circumspect about naming climate change as the driving force behind the regulation, but that's the major push behind the EV credits, not a lack of oil.

That said, the California mandate is not about either. It's about ordinary local air pollution. VOCs, mostly, which two-strokes are notorious for. This is another reason this is mostly good news for anyone not living in California. California will drive innovation in the area around lower emission tools. Because this is a problem mostly restricted to high-population density areas, particularly suburban ones like the major metros of California, this is not a law that's coming to you. Maybe if you live in some parts of the east coast. But you will get to benefit from the new choices that were not previously available while still retaining your old ones.

That has tended to be the pattern. Money for climate change. Mandate for air pollution. Not sure why those are the tools selected for each of the tasks.

I believe the law is a bit of overreach, but I also don't think it's going to be implemented in anything approaching the the crazy pace in the headlines. There's a long history of crazy headlines out of Sacramento that actually becomes far more reasonable implementations as the realities show themselves. This law has that escape clause built right in, in fact.
 

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Interesting thread. Lots of vehicle talk, I wonder how many are 25hp or less.

Will there be a corresponding disposal fee for pre-ban ICE of 25hp or less?

Will the ban just be on new sales or on all small ICE no matter how long you have had them?

Anyone working on a zero loss extension cord? Until fuel cell or battery technology really take off I can envision a half-mile long extension cord being useful in my yard.

I can't remember, but weren't gas turbine engines considered more efficient than reciprocating engines? What happened to them? How small could thay go?

Anyone working on a Mr Fusion like the one from the movie Back to the Future? I wouldn't mind having a couple of those even if I had to tow them instead of carry them.

Remember when the best LEDs could do was indicate, no real illumination. They are coming into their own now. It would be nice if batteries could follow suit.

I'm in NY so we seem to get the bother without the benefits of CA emission regulations.
Heh, I actually know the answer to some of these questions.

No new disposal fees are in this law. It's the other way around...$300M are being made available to help businesses transition to zero emission tools. The industry, unsurprisingly, doesn't think that's enough and are asking for more.

The ban is only on new sales. There is no ban on possessing, using, or repairing any such tool, including tools purchased out of state, whether personally or for a business. That said, noise regulations in many communities have banned some gas equipment, leaf blowers in particular. Lots of electric leaf blowers in the closest city to me as a result. But those aren't state regulations and not related to this law.

Gas turbine engines are not now nor have ever been considered more efficient than piston engines by any engineer. It's the simple expedient that the pressure ratio in a turbine is much lower than piston, limiting the Carnot efficiency. What's worse, the smaller you go, the lower the efficiency. It's possible to go very small, but you'll need to carry a ridiculous amount of fuel for the power produced. Turbines are typically used where weight is bigger concern (aircraft) or reliability is paramount (pipeline pumping).
 

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I wonder which is throwing up more pollution in California, small engines or forest fires?
Forest fires, without question.

This is one of the reasons I don't see the law being implemented on the purported timeline. CalFire, CDF, and other agencies responsible for land management are not putting down their chainsaws anytime soon. Some of the previous land management doctrines have helped lead us to the flames and smoke in the air right now, but those agencies have dramatically revised those doctrines. The chainsaws are running overtime where I live, mine included.
 

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Forest fires, without question.

This is one of the reasons I don't see the law being implemented on the purported timeline. CalFire, CDF, and other agencies responsible for land management are not putting down their chainsaws anytime soon. Some of the previous land management doctrines have helped lead us to the flames and smoke in the air right now, but those agencies have dramatically revised those doctrines. The chainsaws are running overtime where I live, mine included.
Perhaps fire fighters and related agencies will get wavers for their jobs.
 
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So does this mean that riding mowers will all start coming with 26hp engines? lol
It's happened before. A lot of commercial ZTR mowers are above 25 HP.
 

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So does this mean that riding mowers will all start coming with 26hp engines? lol
Don't forget the chainsaws. My stickman arms couldn't handle a 26HP chainsaw. :ROFLMAO:
 

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Heh, I actually know the answer to some of these questions.
I just figure part of the budget is being used to fund people like you to come on the forums and back the plan. :LOL:

Don't that seriously, wait a minute......:unsure:


So does this mean that riding mowers will all start coming with 26hp engines? lol
Yes. They will be woke and self identify as 26HP.
I was going to put Yes as well but you put it much better.
 

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I just figure part of the budget is being used to fund people like you to come on the forums and back the plan. :LOL:

Don't that seriously, wait a minute......:unsure:

I was going to put Yes as well but you put it much better.
I wish I was getting paid for this! Also, I assume you meant that I shouldn't take it seriously, but to be clear, I'm not backing it. Just dropping in by way of explanation of the headlines. I've been playing in this sandbox for decades now, so I just wanted to tamp down the public freakout. So while I'm not backing it, I'm also not panicking.
 

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Interesting thread. Lots of vehicle talk, I wonder how many are 25hp or less.

Will there be a corresponding disposal fee for pre-ban ICE of 25hp or less?

Will the ban just be on new sales or on all small ICE no matter how long you have had them?

Anyone working on a zero loss extension cord? Until fuel cell or battery technology really take off I can envision a half-mile long extension cord being useful in my yard.

I can't remember, but weren't gas turbine engines considered more efficient than reciprocating engines? What happened to them? How small could thay go?

Anyone working on a Mr Fusion like the one from the movie Back to the Future? I wouldn't mind having a couple of those even if I had to tow them instead of carry them.

Remember when the best LEDs could do was indicate, no real illumination. They are coming into their own now. It would be nice if batteries could follow suit.

I'm in NY so we seem to get the bother without the benefits of CA emission regulations.
There is rarely a ban on noncommercial use of existing products as they are "grandfathered." However, commercial operators may very well be banned from using engine-powered equipment at some point in the future, there is plenty of precedent for that in California with pre-emissions commercial diesel trucks.

I would not be surprised if there will be some disposal fee, there is also precedent for that with tires, and we all know that certain places love to tack on fees and taxes.

Gas turbines are rarely used due to technical limitations, namely high fuel use at anything other than full load, the expense of dealing with very high temperatures in the turbines, and the need to deal with a large quantity of hot jet exhaust.

Batteries are certainly advancing, remember 30 years ago it was pretty much all lead-acid and nickel-cadmium. Lithium ion batteries are much better than those, and even modern ones are much better than ones from 20 years ago. But they still are very poor compared to a can full of gasoline.
 

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You need to track Big Oil a little closer. Their shareholders are demanding change to green. They are not investing in replacing their reserves and some banks now are refusing to loan them money for oil drill projects. The Green Revolution has changed its tactics and is now going after the funding of Big Oil and it's Board of Directors.
Well since politics are currently not allowed on these boards I can't answer this the way I'd like to, but I will say that those banks are probably all under the umbrella of a major financial corporation.
 

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I Am kinda thinking get few new small gas powered things myself, but what good will they be if gas gets hard to come by. No different than a firearm you can’t get ammunition for. It would be a good way to get those that are reluctant to switch over to battery powered equipment. Simply make fuel to expensive for most to buy.

If going to battery power is so good, most of those in business to make money will use battery powered equipment as it’s all about making a profit.
 

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Regardless of which side of the fence you are on, the problem is mandates.
Politicians tugging our reigns guiding us in any direction is absolutely not right!
Let petro products or battery products live or die, thrive or struggle on their own merits. Please stop using our tax dollars to dictate our behavior!
 

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This is absolutely expected, for multiple reasons.

Utilities shutting off high current usage equipment during high demand times has already been done for quite a while with air conditioners in certain locales. Air conditioners were previously the largest power draw devices in a typical house on a routine basis. An EV will use a lot more electricity in total than an air conditioner will, and depending on the charger, can use it a lot more rapidly as well. The other things that are occurring are a switch from baseload generation (coal, hydroelectric, nuclear- anything that reliably and consistently makes the same amount of power 24/7/365) to wind and solar, as well as little to no improvement in transmission grid capacity and total generation capacity. Wind and solar are highly inconsistent at producing electricity on an hour to hour and day to day basis. During poor production times, they make essentially zero electricity. This leads to massive swings in the amount of electricity generated on a rapid basis.

These factors put together require that both peak and total usage will be limited significantly. Peak capacity when the solar panels and windmills are actually generation is limited due to the inability of the grid to transmit the power. Thus you can't just add more windmills and solar panels to add capacity, the grid can't handle it. Since you can't add more capacity and you have an inconsistent generation source, you end up generating a whole lot less electricity in total than you would with baseload generation with the same peak capacity. This requires much less total electricity usage as the capacity isn't there. So, you will see the utilities forcibly limiting usage by shutting off power to certain devices as they are here or shutting off power to entire houses and areas as is happening in California.

I expect that people will try to ameliorate this by putting up their own solar panels and battery banks as this effectively increases generation and grid capacity independently of the utilities. This is very expensive and particularly ineffective in areas like the UK which are high-latitude and have relatively few sunny days, but the choice is to either do this or go without transportation if you live outside of a major urban center.
 
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