New shop build 30x60x10

Check out the prices of 200A panels at the box stores, they are around $200 last time I checked. I use Square D QO, the boxes came with 12 20 amp breakers. A 400 amp meter base is set up to have 2 sets of wires coming from it, usually they go to two 200 amp panels.

Basing your entire electrical system around an odd ball panel you have is like buying a tractor based solely on on oddball implement you have.

When you come off of your 400 amp meter base, make one panel go directly and take the other through a 200 amp transfer switch (such as an Asco brand switch). Now you can choose which circuits are backed up and which are not, and that will let you save money and avoid mistakes when you get your generator.

If you want it all backed up and will be careful with your usage, then just put everything on a 400 amp transfer switch. Check with an electrician, because you might have higher cost that way since you'll need a 400 amp disconnect and then have to put your panels above a tray, all of which cost more $$s.

Here is a picture of the 400 amp meter based with it's two lugs for the "output" to the house.

In my house, I came in off the meter base and then into the basement underneath the garage. Once you have more than 2' of wire from the meter base, if you're not in your breaker panels you have to have a disconnect (this is a "check with electrician" thing). So I had to have a 400 amp disconnect ($1800 !), then I had a panel before the generator (to the left of the disconnect). This has the resistive electric backup for the heat pumps, shedding 80 amps off the generator load. The generator, since it was remote to the switchgear, also had to have a 200 amp disconnect on it ("only" $400). Then there is the transfer switch. You can see this in the next shot, along with the inside of the transfer switch. Note that there is only one set of lugs on the transfer switch.

So, I then had to put the breaker boxes over a tray ("only" $400) to splice the feed from the transfer switch, see pictures. The plus is the breakers are semi-central to the house, the minus is a _lot_ of expensive 400 amp cable (about $3500 worth). The cost of the 400 amp cable, the 200 amp generator cable (100' run) the disconnects, the transfer switch, the tray, and the breaker boxes was about $9K (I'm complaining not bragging).

The key concept here is that what you see the most of is what is cheapest- the meter is on the opposite side of the wall from the single breaker box, no disconnect needed. You can do two 200 amp panels on the opposite side of the meter base and get away with it. As soon as you start to move things around or put in generators and transfer switches, the cost of the world goes up. You might able to get a 200 amp panel and 200 amp xfer switch right behind the meter base and avoid a lot of costs. But you might need a 200 amp disconnect before the xfer switch (so you can work on it and have it fused correctly), check with electrician. If you do the whole building 400 amp service on the xfer swtich, you might want the cost of 60 feet of 200 amp cables to put the other breaker box on the other side of the building. You get the idea- plan it as a system and not just the amperage and consult with someone to trade off cost vs. features.

Pete

As always Steve you're on top of what your needs are. I can't tell you how many people missed a LB and conduit from their meter to their panel and then have sticker shock when it's time to put in a generator transfer switch. Only one person I've every talked to came out of the meter, into a 200A disconnect, then used a 3' piece of conduit to run into the breaker box. When it was time to add a transfer switch, it was a piece of cake not a horrific re-work.

Other shop suggestions:

One thing I did on my tractor garage was put a run of 2.5" conduit (2" would be fine too) from the panel at one end to the other end. That left a lot of options open for stuff down the road.

I put the plastic outside boxes in for outlet boxes, I should have used metal boxes. It's too easy to break the plastic boxes or strip the inserts where the mounting screws go in. I also should have put in a double box- one for the GFI and one for a "normal, cheaper" outlet next to it which is what you would use 99% of the time. That way you wear out an inexpensive outlet instead of the expensive GFI. So I have a triple expander cord with a 18" cord on it plugged into the outlets I use most of the time so I can just wear that out.

Don't for get conduit for low voltage, security, and possible video surveillance. If you can, pull an Ethernet CAT5 cable from the house for a wireless access point. See if your cell phone works in metal buildings, if not you may need to plan for an extender.

If you remember the posts on my building on another site, remember the drop down for the door so that storm blown water doesn't get in.

The new shop sounds great! looking forward to updates on the progress!

Pete

Pete,
Lots of good ideas and I am in agreement with you on most of it for sure.

I have sevaral cartons of Hospital grade gfci outlets to use along with spec grade outlets and metal boxes. Just a few of the many things I overbought when building medical facilties. When I get everything completed I am going to make an effort to get rid of the extras without loosing my shirt.

This service will also feed the parking shed and an rv hookup too. After I get the building up I may go with the 400 amp switchgear and two 200A panels as you suggested I do have all of this in stock, wish I didn't. Really one of the things I need to do next is get with the power company and work out the details for the temporary power and see where and what we can do to provide the service.

I will have a slight slope at the door to allow the water to run away from the lower door weatherstripping. I plan to have a front apron slab about 16x24 and I should consider a drain in front of the door at this point. I will run some extra conduit for the lv,data, and sprinkler wiring. I am going to install the conduit for the future parking shed as I don't wan't to tear up the landscaping twice.

Thanks for your ongoing help in this project.

I should mention that at this point I am most concerned with the basic building structure ideas. As an example the last time I built a shop (50x100x18) I installed 6" and 4" piping in the floor for a vacuum system at each of the woodworking machines, this was piped out to an outside vacuum with a place for sawdust to be collected. I also had airlines and conduit for these machines so that I didn't have to trip over hoses and cords.

For this small shop I am planning to be able to move the equipment around more than in the past as I need to perform a wider variety of tasks. My interest here is to be able to do limited woodworking, welding and fabrication, maintenance of equipment and store all the tools with some security. I need to replace a bunch of older rollaway tool cabinets on my service trucks and will reuse these for small tools and parts I need to organize, it all takes time to do. I should have about a dozen of these older cabinets to use which means the small parts and tools will have a home with some organization. I will need to build some larger deeper shelves to get the bulky items up off the floor. These can be added as an ongoing project and as time permits.

I hope to build the separate parking shed to house the trucks, tractors and other things out of sight and protected from the weather. Doesn't need to be much more than a covered building with lights and power for battery chargers.