[JPower6210]

Hi All- First post... I am getting ready to order a 3039R or 3046R. I am trying to figure out how to spec out the hydraulics- I think...that in my perfect world I want a Power Beyond kit to run a BH, a Top and Tilt Kit which would use the diverter valve and be operated from the loader stick as well as a 3rd function kit. I also want to order with uses I have not thought about yet and am thinking about the 4th and 5th with the separate control valves. Is it possible to get that as an independent system, meaning T and T runs off the loader stick/diverter valve, but there is an additional 4th and 5th that is independent of the loader? If it is possible, is there a reason I would not want that? And to clarify- I assume that the 3rd function kit does not eliminate my ability to curl the bucket while I am closing/opening a grapple?

Finally- does the R series allow the use of curl/lift on the loader at the same time?

Thanks!

JP

 

[Kennyd]

Read this thread to start: 3R Series 3rd 4th and 5th SCV Class 101



Some answers are different between cab and open station machines, which are you looking at?

 

[JPower6210]

Read this thread to start: 3R Series 3rd 4th and 5th SCV Class 101



Some answers are different between cab and open station machines, which are you looking at?

I am planning open station- thanks.

 

[Kennyd]

The 3rd SCV is electric, operated from two buttons on the joystick handle. The 4th/5th are manual valves mounted on the right ROPS post:

Yes, you can easily use the curl/lift functions at the same time.

 

[JPower6210]

Thanks Kenny- I like to think I am fairly good at understanding things, but I am still confused...

My dealer is telling me that I need the diverter valve kit to add the 3rd function for a grapple- This has cost, but more importantly, seems to imply that I have to activate the switch for the diverter valve to use the grapple function- that would seem to not be workable from a loader usage standpoint. Is the diverter to there to divert the flow from the 3rd SCV in the rear to the front and all the functions remain active (1st, 2nd, 3rd) on the loader?

I am getting the Top and Tilt for all the road grading I do- Is it possible to have the option of controlling that with the 4th and 5th valves mounted on the ROPs or with the loader joystick? I am not sure which method I would prefer. Is it possible, meaning additional connections, to have "2 4th and 5th's" meaning a set that is controlled by the ROPs mounted levers, and a set controlled by the joystick using a diverter valve?

Finally- does having the Power Beyond kit change any of this?

Thanks!

 

[JimR]

My dealer is telling me that I need the diverter valve kit to add the 3rd function for a grapple- This has cost, but more importantly, seems to imply that I have to activate the switch for the diverter valve to use the grapple function- that would seem to not be workable from a loader usage standpoint. Is the diverter to there to divert the flow from the 3rd SCV in the rear to the front and all the functions remain active (1st, 2nd, 3rd) on the loader?

I think you are perhaps confusing things a bit here.

On the 3R machines there are two distinctly different options. You can order a diverter OR you can order a electro-hydraulic 3rd function SCV. These are not the same things.

A diverter can (in theory at least) be connected to any set of SCV ports. Typically they are installed so that they are tied to the loader's curl function. When you activate the diverter switch hydraulic fluid is diverted from the primary function (i.e. bucket curl/dump) to the secondary function (i.e. grapple open/close). That sort of thing works fine in most cases. But you do have a limitation in that you can't operate the grapple AND curl the bucket at the same time.

With a 3rd SCV you can operate all 3 functions at the same time (provided the machine has adequate hydraulic flow capacity...).

The 3rd SCV on the 3R machines is setup to put the ports on the rear of the machine. Deere doesn't list a set of hoses to bring those ports to the front of the machine but your dealer could fabricate hoses to do that if that was what you really wanted.

 

[JD Driver]

Are you sure you don't want a 4 series tractor? Whenever I speak to someone with a strong focus on hydraulics like you have expressed above, I always suggest they look at the 4 series since they are so highly engineered for those wanting up to 5 SCV connections.

I just finished adding the 3rd SCV to my 4 series, bringing the SCV count up to 5 (3 in front, 2 in rear), and it was very simple and clean to do since the tractor was designed for these additions. All of the SCV valves for all 5 SCVs are cleanly located behind this cover at the back rear of the tractor behind the right rear tire.

No offense to those with a 3 series tractor, but if you look at one of those equipped with 5 SCVs, it has SCV valves and hoses hanging all over the place like it was an after-thought to the design of the tractor.

This picture shows SCVs 4 and 5 at the back of the 4 series tractor. SCV 3 can be placed back there on a bracket next to SCV 4,5 if you prefer it there instead of up front like shown in the next picture.

Picture of 3 SCVs at the front for loader and grapple on a 4 series tractor.

 

[Kennyd]

I think you are perhaps confusing things a bit here.

On the 3R machines there are two distinctly different options. You can order a diverter OR you can order a electro-hydraulic 3rd function SCV. These are not the same things.
I'm not even sure the diverter kit is an option for the open station machines, I'd have to research that. Most would opt for the two independent valves on the ROPS I think.

A diverter can (in theory at least) be connected to any set of SCV ports. Typically they are installed so that they are tied to the loader's curl function. When you activate the diverter switch hydraulic fluid is diverted from the primary function (i.e. bucket curl/dump) to the secondary function (i.e. grapple open/close). That sort of thing works fine in most cases. But you do have a limitation in that you can't operate the grapple AND curl the bucket at the same time.
The diverter we are discussing is the 4th/5th diverter kit. It diverts SCV's #1 and #2 ( the loader ports) to the rear.

With a 3rd SCV you can operate all 3 functions at the same time (provided the machine has adequate hydraulic flow capacity...).

The 3rd SCV on the 3R machines is setup to put the ports on the rear of the machine. Deere doesn't list a set of hoses to bring those ports to the front of the machine but your dealer could fabricate hoses to do that if that was what you really wanted.
Yes JD has a kit to do exactly that, it's BW16138

Jim,
A few corrections if I may...

 

[Kennyd]

Thanks Kenny- I like to think I am fairly good at understanding things, but I am still confused...

My dealer is telling me that I need the diverter valve kit to add the 3rd function for a grapple- This has cost, but more importantly, seems to imply that I have to activate the switch for the diverter valve to use the grapple function- that would seem to not be workable from a loader usage standpoint. Is the diverter to there to divert the flow from the 3rd SCV in the rear to the front and all the functions remain active (1st, 2nd, 3rd) on the loader?

Incorrect. You need the 3rd SCV kit, NOT the diverter kit. He is wrong. The 3rd SCV is electric/hydraulic and operated form two switched on the joystick handle.

I am getting the Top and Tilt for all the road grading I do- Is it possible to have the option of controlling that with the 4th and 5th valves mounted on the ROPs
This is exactly how you would control them

or with the loader joystick?

No not on the open station machine.

I am not sure which method I would prefer. Is it possible, meaning additional connections, to have "2 4th and 5th's" meaning a set that is controlled by the ROPs mounted levers, and a set controlled by the joystick using a diverter valve?

You can't have both...just not enough real estate. As I mentioned to Jim I'm not even 100% sure you can get the diverter for the open station machines.

Finally- does having the Power Beyond kit change any of this?

No, nothing at all.

Thanks!

See above.

 

[JPower6210]

Thanks for the help- I think I am getting it but want to make sure. I went and looked at a few of the other posts to try and get part numbers to give to my dealer. This is for a new 4044r OOS. I want the following-

3rd SCV plumbed to the front for grapple
4th and 5th
Power Beyond.
Top and Tilt

Dealer is still telling me I need the diverter valve. I am not sure that I need the 3rd in the rear, unless there is value to having the float valve on the joystick available in the rear.

The part I am having a hard time figuring out is whether I need the 3rd on the rear as well as the front- if so, I see the need for the diverter to choose between front and rear from the joystick. The diverter he is outlining is BLV10966.

I can’t seem to figure out, from the hydraulic ordering guide- which kit I need to get the mid 3rd SCV to the front.

Sorry for the confusion...

JP

 

[Kennyd]

I would recommend the 3rd for your grapple, it’s electrically controlled from the joystick and you can extend the lines to the front, they even have a kit to do this.

Get the 4th/5th for rear implements, you don’t need the diverter.

 

[dwellonrooftop]

I have the one Kennyd recommends, I purchased the 3046r that way used from a fellow GTT member.
I'll get you some pits. it doesn't get any better than that.

 

[JPower6210]

Thanks all- this was really helpful- I got the order done the way I wanted it- as recommended by Kenny- and used the savings to get some pallet forks.

JP

 

[ridesdirt]

Sounds like you got it figured out.

The way I understand the JD SCV kits for the 3R series is this; the 3rd SCV is, like Kenny said, electronically controlled by the buttons on the loader handle. In my opinion you want this for sure! The factory kit does mount the connections on the rear of the tractor, and offers a hose kit to plumb them to the loader.

For 4th and 5th, there are two options;
Option "A" would be to use a diverter - this method controls the 4th and 5th with the loader handle (common set up for those with top/tilt), these are plumbed tight into the rear of the tractor and would look like this (this one has factory kits for PB, 3rd, 4th and 5th)
edit - when using this kit, the loader does not function when the system is diverted to the rear 4th and 5th.

Option "B" is dedicated 4th and 5th and mounts more on the fender/ROPS of the tractor, in this set up one of these SCV does have the float function. This set up will also work with PB and rear 3rd, it would look like this;
edit - the loader will function full time and so does the 4th and 5th.

To complicate matters even more... you can modify the factory systems. My 3R has PB and factory rear 3rd, but has a diverter plumbed into the factory 3rd system. This lets me have a 3rd for the loader without running hoses from the rear 3rd connections. The way it is set up; primary 3rd is dedicated to the grapple on the loader, when I flip the diverter switch, the rear 3rd valves work, all off the loader handle. Its pretty slick... (basically two sets of SCV connections off the 3rd SCV system, with a diverter controlling which set is active)

clear as mud right?

 

[JPower6210]

This has all been helpful- I ended up with Option B- no diverter- 3rd is running up to the loader from the joystick for the grapple and 4 in 1 bucket- 4th and 5th independent- which will run my Top and Tilt- does the 4th and 5th come standard with one of the valves as a float valve? That would be a great help on my road maintenance. And then finally the Power Beyond will be mounted as well. I could not find a reason to have the 3rd on the rear, and actually thought it would be a bit weird to run the Top from the joystick and the Tilt from the 4th as the dealer was suggesting.

 

[ridesdirt]

From what I have read (several sources), the "option B" above does have one SCV with float. I have not personally seen or operated this set up, but have done a boat load of research on it.

This is what I am going to add to my tractor also. I like the mounting of the "option A", the SCV connections just look better, like they are supposed to be there. But with "option B" allowing for float in one SCV and the fact that the loader will still function without flipping a switch, that's the way to go in my opinion. I do agree with JD Driver, the "option B" does look like an afterthought...

Crazy that there are soooo many options and ways to configure it together. The aftermarket opens up an entire whole new can of worms! (Kenny is the man here, good idea to pay close attention to his advice, #hydraulicguru) Basically, if you can dream it up, it can probably be done for a price.