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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We have a 5410, mfwd, cab, and loader with about 2,000 hours that we bought new in 1998. I was considering trading for a new 5100M or 6105M, until I found out about all the engine modifications to meet the new emission standards. I particularly don't like the regeneration. How far back would I have to go to buy a used tractor without regeneration? And, yes I do realize that there is quite a bit of difference in a 5100M and 6105M, including about $14K in purchase price when new.
 

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pretty sure my 3005, and the 4005 don't do regeneration (if they do I'll be darned if I ever experienced it). I think both of them are no longer made too.
 

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We have a 5410, mfwd, cab, and loader with about 2,000 hours that we bought new in 1998. I was considering trading for a new 5100M or 6105M, until I found out about all the engine modifications to meet the new emission standards. I particularly don't like the regeneration. How far back would I have to go to buy a used tractor without regeneration? And, yes I do realize that there is quite a bit of difference in a 5100M and 6105M, including about $14K in purchase price when new.
For those HP ranges, I think your safe with 2012, maybe 2011.
 

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Hi,

I am planning on purchasing a new 5115M sometime next month. Like you I was looking for something before the regeneration system was required. After reading quite a bit on tractor and pickup forums that the systems are trouble free I decided not to worry about it. Curious on what you are concerned with and if there is something that I am missing? Anyone with experience with these systems that can share what they have learned?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
...Curious on what you are concerned with...
From researching the subject, I found that John Deere and other manufacturers have for several years been incrementally working towards the mandated emission standards that vary by horsepower rating and date. When you get to the regeneration step is when it changes the way you can use the machine. Basically, as long as you are running the engine at high RPMs under a load, regeneration is automatic.

I started out by looking at the Kubota M100GX and Deere 6105M. The Kubota dealer told me about problems with using one of the M100GX tractors to move equipment around on their equipment lot. He said that they would occasionally have to stop and let the M100GX go through the regeneration process before continuing to use the tractor, due to frequent idling around under low load conditions. Even though the Deere 6105M engine uses a different approach than the Kubota M100GX engine, I think the same basic principal would be true with the 6105M, that you would have to be conscious of how much you idle and use the tractor under low load conditions. I would be using our tractor under low load conditions frequently when moving things around with the pallet forks, etc.

Keeping this new tractor long term, I am afraid that regeneration will go the way of smog pumps on the cars of the mid 1980s. I fear that the manufacturers are slapping something on these engines to meet the emission requirements that will be replaced by different technologies in a few years. Then the tractors with regeneration technology will drop substantially in value.

The majority of my use for this tractor will be mowing with a Bush Hog 2515, so I don't really require anything more than the Deere 5100M. I was just considering something like the Deere 6105M with the full frame, a tractor that is a small version of a row crop tractor instead of a utility tractor. For mowing I can't justify the cost of trading for either the 6105M or the 5100M. But, my thinking is that, no more hours than we put on a tractor and storing it in an enclosed shop when not in use, a new tractor would last me and probably my 21 year old son for as long as he would need a tractor.

A salesperson at a local dealership first told me that the 5000 series did not have regeneration, because he had just sold a 5000 series E model that did not have it. But, when he looked up the M model, the 5100M does already come with regeneration components. He said that his literature shows that the 6000 series D models do not yet have regeneration components, but that the M models like the 6105M already have the regeneration components. Can someone confirm this? The salesperson was unaware of this until he looked it up for me.

I am considering trying to find a low hour used tractor in the 5000 or 6000 series tractors before the regeneration step. The reason I want the M series is to either get the partial power shift in the 32 speed transmission option of the 5100M or the Power Quad in the 6105M. I was also excited about the deluxe cab option with the overhead window to see the loader when raised all the way up.

Any suggestions? Am I being overly paranoid about this regeneration process?
 

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I know for a fact that the 5115M has the exhaust gas re circulation. I also plan on using my tractor for a loader tractor and that would involve many hours of low power and idling.

I know with the pick up trucks that just driving them down the road will clean out the system. Hopefully with the tractor just driving around and light use will also work. I will be calling the sales guy that I have been talking with and confirm this.

The way I look at it the future emission systems will be less desirable than the current. And I was happy to find out that the smaller tractors do not require the D.E.F.

I have contacted a guy I know at our local dealership asking to borrow a operations manual for the 5115M. If I get it I will review and share what it says.
 

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I don't think that you're being too cautious. IMO DPFs are the worst things to ever happen to a diesel followed closely by EGRs. Diesels need to breath!

All I have heard are horror stories pertaining to DPFs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Here is a link to a press release where it talks about the engines used in these tractors. They will be switching the DPF to use a SCR system (diesel exhaust fluid) in the next year or so I guess? The 2014 specs for the 5115M say that it still has the DPF system.

I plan on purchasing this year to avoid having to mess with the SCR system for the life of the tractor. The DPF filter has a service life of 5000 hours and that will be more than I will use this machine by a long shot.

Any experience from others DPF vs SCR?

Forgot to mention that it looks like in the future this size engine will not have the regeneration but will use the SCR system instead.

John*Deere Expands Final Tier 4/Stage IV


For the 36 kW to 55 kW (48 hp to 74 hp) power range, John Deere will offer models using a DOC/DPF without cooled EGR or SCR. The PowerTech PWL 4.5L in the 56 kW to 104 kW (75 hp to 140 hp) power range will be equipped with an Integrated Emissions Control system configured with SCR, a DOC and cooled EGR. Engine models above 104 kW (140 hp) will feature an Integrated Emissions Control system consisting of cooled EGR, a DOC/DPF and SCR. All John Deere Integrated Emissions Control systems are exclusively designed to meet the specific demands of off-highway applications in the given power categories.
 

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I foolishly bought a 2013 Duramax chevy. I had owned a 2004 Duramax that I loved. Totally different animal. Not the same milage at all. If you keep the revs up as mentioned above it won't soot up the filter as fast and regen is less frequent but I don't and it is regening all the time. I was turning 1450 rpms going about 60 mph the other day getting 6.3 mpg. We are wasting energy to keep the air clean, there has got to be a better way.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Not for me...

I have decided not to trade for a new tractor with DPF. I am either going to purchase a low hour used tractor before DPF or just keep the 5410 we now have. I am convinced that the current technology will be changed in a short number of years. I predict that in 10 years you will go to a farm sale and see tractors 3 years older bringing more money than a 3 year newer tractor with DPF.
 

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I understand your thinking. Another way to look at it is that the dpf is here to stay and a machine with dpf only is better than def and dpf. I am buying now to avoid the def system next year. Fluid that freezes and Minnesota winters do not mix.
I have been asking around to some farmers that use these machines daily and they have not had any issues.

I have decided not to trade for a new tractor with DPF. I am either going to purchase a low hour used tractor before DPF or just keep the 5410 we now have. I am convinced that the current technology will be changed in a short number of years. I predict that in 10 years you will go to a farm sale and see tractors 3 years older bringing more money than a 3 year newer tractor with DPF.
 

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I foolishly bought a 2013 Duramax chevy. I had owned a 2004 Duramax that I loved. Totally different animal. Not the same milage at all. If you keep the revs up as mentioned above it won't soot up the filter as fast and regen is less frequent but I don't and it is regening all the time. I was turning 1450 rpms going about 60 mph the other day getting 6.3 mpg. We are wasting energy to keep the air clean, there has got to be a better way.
Is the air really even any cleaner? The soot still comes out, but, it's at a higher temp so you can't "see" it..

My DPF looks really nice on the shelf...

Jim
 

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Hi,

I am planning on purchasing a new 5115M sometime next month. Like you I was looking for something before the regeneration system was required. After reading quite a bit on tractor and pickup forums that the systems are trouble free I decided not to worry about it. Curious on what you are concerned with and if there is something that I am missing? Anyone with experience with these systems that can share what they have learned?
Even if things work perfectly the filter will have to be changed eventually and they're very expensive. Different systems have different things need to be done but they all cost$$$$
 
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