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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone bought/used a Woods or Bradco backhoe with subframe on a JD 4x20 series? I am curious to know how easy it is to mount/dismount these systems. I am familiar with the JD rockshaft assist subframe and have used it with a JD 375 backhoe. I thought it was okay so long as you were on level ground and the backhoe was standing at the correct angle. I'm interested in a third party backhoe as I would like to use it with another brand of tractor and not be limited to JD subframes. In addition, the JD backhoe is frankly a lot more expensive for what is probably a Woods re-branded with a different mounting system.
 

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backhoe curiousity

I have been looking at a Woods WM-6600 backhoe unit for the back of my 3005 tractor. I will be digging basic barn footings, occasional pet burial, ditching a couple feet deep. I won't be yanking out huge oak stumps or putting in huge septic systems. It looked like this would be a nice option. I could drive down to the lower 48 and pick it up while visiting family. To get a JD model 7 or equivalent would cost me $10k up here. I looked at the Woods and Liberty units so far.
 

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Fuel Hoser,

The 3-pt hitch backhoes may void your warranty. I know they are not recommended on the 2x20 series tractors.
 
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I second what Andy says, and I would go one step further. I personally would find it too "risky" to put a non-JD hoe on a SCUT/CUT, even if it had a sub-frame. If you cracked your transmission housing, what do you suppose your dealer would say? If you had a JD tractor, sub frame and hoe, all sold and setup by him, I think you would have an easier time with support.
 

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Hey... Umm.. :lol: The OP mentioned BH with a subframe, not a 3PH model. :good2: Although you guys do bring up an excellent point. :thumbup1gif:


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I personally would find it too "risky" to put a non-JD hoe on a SCUT/CUT, even if it had a sub-frame.
I was trying to answer the first post, but I guess my answer got dilluted.
 

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Interesting point Arlen. Wonder if a manufacturer like Woods would stand behind not only their product, but any possible damage your tractor incurs from their use. :unknown:


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Interesting point Arlen. Wonder if a manufacturer like Woods would stand behind not only their product, but any possible damage your tractor incurs from their use. :unknown:


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I doubt it. Equipment makers and attachment makers operate independently. As long as the part they made is functioning correctly, it's very rare that they will claim any responsibility for whatever the thing they made was attached to.
 

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Model 7 plates

My neighbor has a model 7 backhoe on his 790. We looked at his frame mounting plates and they are dirt simple and reach all the way up to where his FEL mounts go. We were looking at making another set (using his as templates) and hooking up the woods backhoe directly to the subframe mount system. The only thing hard mounted to the 3 pt system would be the top mount right up behind the seat. My warranty will be up in a few months on the 3005 and the older 790 is way past warranty considerations. I do like the idea of hard mounting using the plates instead of just relying on the 3 pt arms. It makes so much more sense to spread torque/weight as evenly over as much of the frame as possible.
You guys are making a good point about Woods not backing any damage to the machine. I'd imagine their legal department is very aware and puts a disclaimer in their product warranty. I'd love to see that fine print before I ever buy.
 

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I can't imagine Woods or anyone else who makes a back hoe, including Deere that would cover damage to your tractor from use of a back hoe. They will all hand you the same line, if you damaged your tractor while using a back hoe, then you abused your machine by mis-using the back hoe.

Like anything, you need to use common sense and not horse the equipment to hard. It helps to match the attachments size and capabilities equally or a little less than to that of the tractor. A back hoe that is too large for the tractor is begging for trouble. I'm going to attach a Case back hoe to my 3 point on my 3320.
 

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Has anyone bought/used a Woods or Bradco backhoe with subframe on a JD 4x20 series? I am curious to know how easy it is to mount/dismount these systems. I am familiar with the JD rockshaft assist subframe and have used it with a JD 375 backhoe. I thought it was okay so long as you were on level ground and the backhoe was standing at the correct angle. I'm interested in a third party backhoe as I would like to use it with another brand of tractor and not be limited to JD subframes. In addition, the JD backhoe is frankly a lot more expensive for what is probably a Woods re-branded with a different mounting system.
I have a 4720 that I got back in the summer of 2007. The dealer/prime sales guy at the dealer really pushed me toward the Woods BH90X. He said it was superior in the subframe mount and capability compared to the JD. Also had a thumb option which I got. The dealer installed the subframe and BH before delivery. If memory serves me a 448 model was the Deere BH offered at the time.

As a point of interest they also pushed me towards the Woods Brushbull BB 720 as it was better than the Deere brushhog. They said the BB72 was equivalent to the Deere brushhog but that Deere could not touch the BB-720.

The Woods BH90X is relatively easy to install and uninstall. Can't comment on comparing to the deere 448 install as I have never done it. I did look at the Deere BH offered at the time for the 4720 and it was not as robust as the BH90X. I do not know what a "rockshaft assist subframe" is. My subframe is not related in anyway to the rockshaft and as a matter of fact the three point is disabled with the backhoe hydraulics hooked up. (for very good reasons) While it is easy to do on level ground I have unattached and reattached from pretty rough ground that was not level. You use the BH hydraulics to align the attach points with the tractor points.
 

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I have a 4720 that I got back in the summer of 2007. The dealer/prime sales guy at the dealer really pushed me toward the Woods BH90X. He said it was superior in the subframe mount and capability compared to the JD. Also had a thumb option which I got. The dealer installed the subframe and BH before delivery. If memory serves me a 448 model was the Deere BH offered at the time.

As a point of interest they also pushed me towards the Woods Brushbull BB 720 as it was better than the Deere brushhog. They said the BB72 was equivalent to the Deere brushhog but that Deere could not touch the BB-720.

The Woods BH90X is relatively easy to install and uninstall. Can't comment on comparing to the deere 448 install as I have never done it. I did look at the Deere BH offered at the time for the 4720 and it was not as robust as the BH90X. I do not know what a "rockshaft assist subframe" is. My subframe is not related in anyway to the rockshaft and as a matter of fact the three point is disabled with the backhoe hydraulics hooked up. (for very good reasons) While it is easy to do on level ground I have unattached and reattached from pretty rough ground that was not level. You use the BH hydraulics to align the attach points with the tractor points.
Do you have any pictures of your woods BH and the attachment etc. That could be helpful to people.
 

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I have no pictures of the install as when I am installing it I can't take pictures. When I get back to the homefront I can take pictures of the subframe mounts and how how it attaches and will post those.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for the various responses. I did some shopping around and it seems like the Deere 485 is actually the best deal, costing less than either the Woods BH90x or the Bradco 485 once the subframe/bucket has been priced in. The Deere website does not show the specs for the 485 (in terms of digging force, dimensions) so I'm not sure if it's an apples-to-apples comparison. The rockshaft assist mounting system is shown on this video Tractor backhoe hookup IMO it looks easier than it is in practice as the backhoe has to be at the correct angle on level ground, you need to remove all of the 3 point linkage and the rockshaft needs some adjustment to lift the backhoe high enough to get the pins in.

I've seen the Woods BH subframe manual on their site but it would be interesting to see photos.
 

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Here are the specs for the 485 out of the manual which you can find here OMLVU23696_E0



Specifications

[HR][/HR]Backhoes



M64109
Model 485

NOTE: Dimensions are given for backhoe with boom pivot pin 43cm (17 in.) above ground.
Digging Depth (A) (see note below) 2.67 m (105 in.)
Weight, With Large Frame Adapter and 24” Bucket 662 kg (1460 lb)
Weight, With Medium Frame Adapter and 24” Bucket 644 kg (1420 lb)
Swing Arc 180 degrees
Loading Height (bucket at 60?) (B) 2.24 m (88 in.)
Reach From Center Line of Swing Pivot (C) 3.61 m (142 in.)
Transport Height (D) 2.29 m (90 in.)
Bucket Rotation 180 degrees
Loading Reach (bucket at 60?) (E) 1.17 m (46 in.)
Transport Overhang (F) 1.32 m (52 in.)
Undercut (G) 56 cm (22 in.)
Stabilizers Spread Width (Raised) 1.37 m (54 in.)
Stabilizers Spread Width (Lowered) 2.51 m (99 in.)
Boom Lift Capacity (Dipper arm and boom extended, lifting with boom cylinder only, weight attached at bucket pivot, bucket pivot 91cm (36 in.) above ground) 372 kg (820 lb)
SAE Dipperstick Digging Force 10,83 kN (2435 lb)
SAE Bucket Digging Force 16,59 kN (3730 lb)
Bucket Control Main Relief Valve Pressure 17,58 MPa (2550 psi)
Digging Depth (flat bottom) 61 cm (24 in.)

 
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I watched both videos that JD put out that you linked to above. I can tell you I am impressed with how simple it appears to be unhook and hook up the JD BH. I can see how you would absolutely have to do it on level ground as otherwise you would likely have great difficulty. I could not see in great detail how the subframe is mounted and from the size of it, it does not look very substantial. I am certain JD has done their engineering on the mount and is satisfied with its robustness however. It looks like it somehow is using the three point/rockshaft system to lift it but am not certain how much three point/rockshaft remains attached as structural once the BH is pinned.

They do make a reference to midmount accessories not being interfered with by the BH subframe. I do not have any midmount stuff to know for fact how they mount, but the Woods subframe I believe would most certainly interfere with a mid mount item. As I said I don't know how a MM is connected but there is a lot of steel from the very ROBUST Woods subframe that is under the tractor. As a sidelight the subframe supplies a lot of protection to the underbelly of the 4720 if you use it in a rough environment as I do.
 
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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I watched both videos that JD put out that you linked to above. I can tell you I am impressed with how simple it appears to be unhook and hook up the JD BH. I can see how you would absolutely have to do it on level ground as otherwise you would likely have great difficulty. I could not see in great detail how the subframe is mounted and from the size of it, it does not look very substantial. I am certain JD has done their engineering on the mount and is satisfied with its robustness however. It looks like it somehow is using the three point/rockshaft system to lift it but am not certain how much three point/rockshaft remains attached as structural once the BH is pinned.

They do make a reference to midmount accessories not being interfered with by the BH subframe. I do not have any midmount stuff to know for fact how they mount, but the Woods subframe I believe would most certainly interfere with a mid mount item. As I said I don't know how a MM is connected but there is a lot of steel from the very ROBUST Woods subframe that is under the tractor. As a sidelight the subframe supplies a lot of protection to the underbelly of the 4720 if you use it in a rough environment as I do.
The rockshaft/three point does not support the JD backhoe in operation. I recall that once the power beyond circuit is plugged into the backhoe, the rockshaft will leak down and the backhoe will rest on the subframe supported at 4 points (I think there are two upper pins and the low mounts sit on hooks).

Do you find that the subframe reduces ground clearance? It might be a nice frame work to attached a belly pan for forest work . . . I've been thinking of putting one together.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Here are the specs for the 485 out of the manual which you can find here OMLVU23696_E0



Specifications

[HR][/HR]Backhoes



M64109
Model 485

NOTE: Dimensions are given for backhoe with boom pivot pin 43cm (17 in.) above ground.
Digging Depth (A) (see note below) 2.67 m (105 in.)
Weight, With Large Frame Adapter and 24” Bucket 662 kg (1460 lb)
Weight, With Medium Frame Adapter and 24” Bucket 644 kg (1420 lb)
Swing Arc 180 degrees
Loading Height (bucket at 60?) (B) 2.24 m (88 in.)
Reach From Center Line of Swing Pivot (C) 3.61 m (142 in.)
Transport Height (D) 2.29 m (90 in.)
Bucket Rotation 180 degrees
Loading Reach (bucket at 60?) (E) 1.17 m (46 in.)
Transport Overhang (F) 1.32 m (52 in.)
Undercut (G) 56 cm (22 in.)
Stabilizers Spread Width (Raised) 1.37 m (54 in.)
Stabilizers Spread Width (Lowered) 2.51 m (99 in.)
Boom Lift Capacity (Dipper arm and boom extended, lifting with boom cylinder only, weight attached at bucket pivot, bucket pivot 91cm (36 in.) above ground) 372 kg (820 lb)
SAE Dipperstick Digging Force 10,83 kN (2435 lb)
SAE Bucket Digging Force 16,59 kN (3730 lb)
Bucket Control Main Relief Valve Pressure 17,58 MPa (2550 psi)
Digging Depth (flat bottom) 61 cm (24 in.)

Thanks, looks like the specs are roughly comparable to the Woods/Bradco.
 

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Thanks for the various responses.

I've seen the Woods BH subframe manual on their site but it would be interesting to see photos.
Well I kind of forgot to post these pictures that you asked for. Better late than never I guess.

Pictures were taken with my chipper on so the lift arms are visible in a couple of places. They have to come off to install the BH.

IMG_2348r.jpg
Left side of tractor forward end of subframe. You can see how far forward it braces. Just a bit forward of the FEL lugs.

IMG_2349r.jpg
Subframe looking from left side of tractor back toward the right rear


IMG_2350r.jpg
Right side of tractor looking at subframe and why I said I thought it might interfere with midmounts which I do not have or use.

IMG_2352r.jpg
Right rear of tractor looking at the part that connects to the BH, Ignore the lift arm.

IMG_2347r.jpg
View from left rear of tractor looking forward over rear axle.
 
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