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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Be aware of online scams because sometimes you get to be an example to others of what not to do.

This is one of those times. This might be a bit long. Go get some popcorn.

I’ve been on GTT for 5 months now, joining 1 month before getting my 1025R. One of the things I did not get with the purchase was a set of pallet forks and a frame. Main reason being that I was given a set of Rankin clamp-on bucket forks. For various reasons I have decided I want to go with pallet forks and a frame instead (and sell the Rankin's eventually).

So I posted in the Wanted to Buy forum that I…well…wanted to buy a frame and forks, 42” and of course the JDQA system for attaching to my H120 loader.

I titled the post” 42" Pallet Forks and frame”

A day or so later I got a notice that “Ronald001” (I’m using quotes only the first time I use someone’s “name” here) has invited me to a conversation about the forks.

Ronald001:
"Email steve in Ashland he has a 42" Pallet Forks and frame for sale. Here's his email [email protected]"

So I emailed “Steve Matthew”.

A few red flags in hindsight here:
  • A private conversation, outside of the forum, and away from other people’s watchful eyes.
  • Slightly wrong grammar. “he has a 42” Pallet Forks and frame for sale." instead of “he has a set of 42” pallet forks and a frame for sale.” Note that what Ronald wrote was exactly what I had titled (Pallet Forks is capitalized and frame is not). “steve” is not capitalized either.
In hindsight as well, had I used google to search for the text of Ronald’s conversation I would have see that the same text, verbatim, had been used several other sites and "he" has been flagged as a scammer on some (but not all) of the forums.

I’m north of Seattle and had assumed that “Ashland” was Ashland, Oregon. Later, in emailing “Steve” he’s supposedly in Ashland, Virginia. I figured in my mind that Ashland, Oregon was close enough to drive if necessary.

I was eager for a good deal and was away from my computer for what followed. Both of which were mistakes on my part.

I was spending the next two days evaluating the condition of school buildings in Seattle, so all I could do is see photos and send emails via my phone. I also was always on the move and had to steal moments away from work to communicate with Steve. Again, a private conversation away from knowledgeable and helpful watching eyes.

I sent Steve the same message as in the Wanted To Buy forum, plus “Ronald said you have 42" forks and a frame for sale. I'm wondering what you have for sale, what you'd like to get for it, and what would be the best (most cost efficient) way to get them from you to me. I'm about an hour north of Seattle and there's a nearby Fastenal.”

He said he did have a set of 42” pallet forks that he was willing to sell to me for $350, including shipping. This seemed reasonable to me for a used set. I wasn’t looking for new, just good, and not a project.

I won’t bore you with the back and forth but Steve wasn’t eager to sell and seemed a bit grumpy. Ronald was a bit more pushy, making sure I knew that Steve was an honest man. And honestly, my eagerness was helping a bit too much. The first picture Steve sent was using a SSQA system. He got offended when I pointed out it would not work on my H120, reminding me that he has been working with tractors a long time. I pointed out a couple of more times that he, respectfully, was wrong. Finally he sent a picture of a Titan forks and frame set with the JDQA system. Success! Exactly what I was wanting and a little better than I had hoped. He kept blaming delays in communication on his office manager.

Again, doing all this from the tiny screen on my phone I agreed to the deal and I asked about Paypal or Zelle.

He wrote:
“I think I 'll prefer Zelle so as to get it shipp fast without no form of delay. But i am not set up with zelle but my secretary set up with that. Here is the Zelle to pay to.
[email protected]

Let me know once you done with payment i ll send you the tracking number and relevant shipping information once your payment is confirm.”

We agreed to use Zelle for sending funds. My wife has used Zelle for sending money to relatives. This was my first time with it. He got pushy about receiving the money, wanting to know when it was sent. I was working through the process and asked him for the recipient name, phone number, and email. He wrote again:

“Okay. Sorry about that but my secretary is not available to answer quickly. You can just make the payment here now.
[email protected]
Brianna Holes.”

I wrote back that Zelle was requiring a phone number too. So he replied:

“Here is the number +1 (859) 621-9880
Name Brianna Hiles.”

He even provided what he said was his address: "This is my address. 304 South Center Street Ashland Virginia. " I'm sure it's a lie too.

This is going way long, so I’ll wrap it up. I sent the money via Zelle. I never saw the forks. Steve and Ronald did keep up the charade for a few days even though the money was irretrievably in their hands. Then radio silence.

Ronald001 did respond to someone else here on GTT needing a Gator fender and Kylew spotted it in the Wanted to Buy forum and made a comment about it looking shady. I messaged him about my predicament and he agreed that it looked really shady because:
  • Ronald’s response directed you to someone off site who had exactly what was requested.
  • Ronald had a very low posting count (003 at the time, I think)
I went to every step in the way to file dispute/loss forms. No joy so far. I sent a few "honor shaming" emails to Ronald and Steve. Still nothing.

A couple of items that hopefully help you not be a part of something like this:
  • Zelle has no protections. And, to be absolutely clear and fair to them, they are absolutely clear about this. A Zelle transaction is virtual cash. Imagine handing someone a stack of cash. That is what it is. There is no recourse. Once it leaves your hand, and you confirm multiple times it’s ok and that you know who you’re sending it to (which of course I clicked “yes”) it’s gone. No recourse, no recall, no protection.
  • The phone number was a real number, answered by a woman who was not interested in talking to me or about Steve.
  • The names Steve was giving me as the recipient was not him. It was his secretary, and it changed three times.
  • My bank has a relationship with Zelle as their facilitator for online fund transfer. After I realized I was scammed, I talked with them and they said Zelle is a contractor and not part of the bank. So I don’t have protection from online fraud, nor help from their online fraud department.
  • Zelle is clear that they’re just the facilitator. If you say it’s ok to send, that’s all the approval they need to send the money. I filed a fraud claim with them anyway. 30 days later, no response.
  • The money went through Zelle to another bank. That bank then, as I understand it, routed it to a bank that puts the money straight into debit/gift cards. The money is gone, they have no interest in assistance.
  • The US Government does have a department for investigating internet fraud. I filed a report and a form with them. 30 days later, no response.
  • To be clear ONCE THE MONEY IS GONE, IT’S GONE. THERE IS NO DISPUTE TO RESOLVE AS YOU’VE GIVEN THE OK TO SEND IT. This isn’t like a credit or debit card purchase where you have some protections. I sent the money in good faith that once received they would send the forks. Just like if they had sent the forks prior to payment they would have done so in good faith that I would pay.
I have searched on the Internet for his opening text and found more under Ronald001 and even a couple under Ronald002. I’ve emailed their site admins to let them know. Some appreciate it, some don’t.

I know this has been a long read. I haven’t hidden much. If you have questions about any of this, please ask in a reply and I’ll respond publicly as much as I can (or via conversation if you’d like).

I was lazy and eager and was not critical enough, overlooking many red flags for my convenience. That does not absolve Ronald, Steve, or Brianna of being criminals.

Hopefully, this all helps someone else from going down the same path.

Bpop
 

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Thanks for sharing Brian. I’m sorry you lost your money.
 

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What IP addresses do your emails show? Are they spoofed? You might be able to get there Internet service shutdown. I wouldn't recommend Google shutting down their gmail accounts as they will just make new ones and be harder to track.

Keep harassing the Feds about this, politely, but firmly. The squeaky wheel. Does your State have an Internet Fraud Dept.? You might want to check. They might have better luck than the Feds. Either way, I'm sorry to agree with you, your money is long gone. Even if they caught the guys tomorrow and they were to make restitution you might get your money back by the dollar over the next 10 years.
 

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Brian, Thanks for the update. It's a shame that hard working, trusting and honest people are being victimized by those who are expert at various schemes and scams.
 

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That really sucks. It has always seemed that we were kind of immune to that stuff on GTT.
I sell allot of calves on Craigslist, and I have to deal with all the scammers. I use to get a scammer calling once in a while, now probably 80% of the replies are scammers.
If I were you, I would forget about it and move on. Every minute that you spend from now on is just costing you more time and money. Get yourself a better, brand spanking new, set of forks and put it in your rear view mirror
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That really sucks. It has always seemed that we were kind of immune to that stuff on GTT.
I sell allot of calves on Craigslist, and I have to deal with all the scammers. I use to get a scammer calling once in a while, now probably 80% of the replies are scammers.
If I were you, I would forget about it and move on. Every minute that you spend from now on is just costing you more time and money. Get yourself a better, brand spanking new, set of forks and put it in your rear view mirror
Agreed. I'm posting here not to be a victim or martyr (or punching bag). Just trying to help out. I know the money's gone. I'll continue to look for bargains, just perhaps with a bit more reserve.
 

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Honest people selling things are becoming a rare bird nowadays. I was on Facebook Marketplace a couple of days ago and found a tractor for an unbelievable deal. I did a search and that tractor was all over marketplace same picture and same dealer's name but each had a different vin number and the dealers address was in a different city. More than 300 postings. Disgusting. If I do buy something that has to be shipped I'll only use Paypal with a credit card.
Ron
P.S No I'm not the same Ron.
 

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Here is what's at the street address he gave you in Virginia. It's in the center of the block of the row buildings on the right.
Residential area Property Neighbourhood Home House
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Here is what's at the street address he gave you in Virginia. It's in the center of the block of the row buildings on the right. View attachment 763712
Yep. He gave that address several days after the money was already gone. Why he kept the charade going I don't know.
 

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@bpop Thanks for sharing your experience. Most of us like to think that we're immune to making mistakes, but it happens a lot. If it didn't spammers would go away. Appreciate the knowledge as I would think here on GTT we would be safer than other areas given the great group of folks here, but that's not necessarily true as it only takes one.
Thanks again for sharing.
 

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Yep. He have that address several days after the money was already gone. Why he kept the charade going I don't know.
Possibly to allow everything to clear far enough that there was no way to go back. Don't know, but just a hunch.
 

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I have never bought any thing off e-bay and only a couple of things off of Craigslist. The Craigslist's deals were face to face and I see the merchandise and hand over the cash. Most of my online shopping is through Amazon or other well known vendors. I am kind of a skeptic when it comes to a lot of this stuff.

Sorry this happened and thanks for sharing so we all can learn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Possibly to allow everything to clear far enough that there was no way to go back. Don't know, but just a hunch.
Maybe just playing out the con until they had drained the debit card.
 

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That really sucks. It has always seemed that we were kind of immune to that stuff on GTT.
I sell allot of calves on Craigslist, and I have to deal with all the scammers. I use to get a scammer calling once in a while, now probably 80% of the replies are scammers.
If I were you, I would forget about it and move on. Every minute that you spend from now on is just costing you more time and money. Get yourself a better, brand spanking new, set of forks and put it in your rear view mirror
I buy and sell on CraigsList also, but I learned a long time ago, that in order to prevent scammers, you have to change how you list your phone number so they cannot auto search for it. List it like this: 95six-8two5-one53six. I no longer get scammers when I list like that. I only list it in the body of the ad.

Dave
 

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Be aware of online scams because sometimes you get to be an example to others of what not to do.

This is one of those times. This might be a bit long. Go get some popcorn.

I’ve been on GTT for 5 months now, joining 1 month before getting my 1025R. One of the things I did not get with the purchase was a set of pallet forks and a frame. Main reason being that I was given a set of Rankin clamp-on bucket forks. For various reasons I have decided I want to go with pallet forks and a frame instead (and sell the Rankin's eventually).

So I posted in the Wanted to Buy forum that I…well…wanted to buy a frame and forks, 42” and of course the JDQA system for attaching to my H120 loader.

I titled the post” 42" Pallet Forks and frame”

A day or so later I got a notice that “Ronald001” (I’m using quotes only the first time I use someone’s “name” here) has invited me to a conversation about the forks.

Ronald001:
"Email steve in Ashland he has a 42" Pallet Forks and frame for sale. Here's his email [email protected]"

So I emailed “Steve Matthew”.

A few red flags in hindsight here:
  • A private conversation, outside of the forum, and away from other people’s watchful eyes.
  • Slightly wrong grammar. “he has a 42” Pallet Forks and frame for sale." instead of “he has a set of 42” pallet forks and a frame for sale.” Note that what Ronald wrote was exactly what I had titled (Pallet Forks is capitalized and frame is not). “steve” is not capitalized either.
In hindsight as well, had I used google to search for the text of Ronald’s conversation I would have see that the same text, verbatim, had been used several other sites and "he" has been flagged as a scammer on some (but not all) of the forums.

I’m north of Seattle and had assumed that “Ashland” was Ashland, Oregon. Later, in emailing “Steve” he’s supposedly in Ashland, Virginia. I figured in my mind that Ashland, Oregon was close enough to drive if necessary.

I was eager for a good deal and was away from my computer for what followed. Both of which were mistakes on my part.

I was spending the next two days evaluating the condition of school buildings in Seattle, so all I could do is see photos and send emails via my phone. I also was always on the move and had to steal moments away from work to communicate with Steve. Again, a private conversation away from knowledgeable and helpful watching eyes.

I sent Steve the same message as in the Wanted To Buy forum, plus “Ronald said you have 42" forks and a frame for sale. I'm wondering what you have for sale, what you'd like to get for it, and what would be the best (most cost efficient) way to get them from you to me. I'm about an hour north of Seattle and there's a nearby Fastenal.”

He said he did have a set of 42” pallet forks that he was willing to sell to me for $350, including shipping. This seemed reasonable to me for a used set. I wasn’t looking for new, just good, and not a project.

I won’t bore you with the back and forth but Steve wasn’t eager to sell and seemed a bit grumpy. Ronald was a bit more pushy, making sure I knew that Steve was an honest man. And honestly, my eagerness was helping a bit too much. The first picture Steve sent was using a SSQA system. He got offended when I pointed out it would not work on my H120, reminding me that he has been working with tractors a long time. I pointed out a couple of more times that he, respectfully, was wrong. Finally he sent a picture of a Titan forks and frame set with the JDQA system. Success! Exactly what I was wanting and a little better than I had hoped. He kept blaming delays in communication on his office manager.

Again, doing all this from the tiny screen on my phone I agreed to the deal and I asked about Paypal or Zelle.

He wrote:
“I think I 'll prefer Zelle so as to get it shipp fast without no form of delay. But i am not set up with zelle but my secretary set up with that. Here is the Zelle to pay to.
[email protected]

Let me know once you done with payment i ll send you the tracking number and relevant shipping information once your payment is confirm.”

We agreed to use Zelle for sending funds. My wife has used Zelle for sending money to relatives. This was my first time with it. He got pushy about receiving the money, wanting to know when it was sent. I was working through the process and asked him for the recipient name, phone number, and email. He wrote again:

“Okay. Sorry about that but my secretary is not available to answer quickly. You can just make the payment here now.
[email protected]
Brianna Holes.”

I wrote back that Zelle was requiring a phone number too. So he replied:

“Here is the number +1 (859) 621-9880
Name Brianna Hiles.”

He even provided what he said was his address: "This is my address. 304 South Center Street Ashland Virginia. " I'm sure it's a lie too.

This is going way long, so I’ll wrap it up. I sent the money via Zelle. I never saw the forks. Steve and Ronald did keep up the charade for a few days even though the money was irretrievably in their hands. Then radio silence.

Ronald001 did respond to someone else here on GTT needing a Gator fender and Kylew spotted it in the Wanted to Buy forum and made a comment about it looking shady. I messaged him about my predicament and he agreed that it looked really shady because:
  • Ronald’s response directed you to someone off site who had exactly what was requested.
  • Ronald had a very low posting count (003 at the time, I think)
I went to every step in the way to file dispute/loss forms. No joy so far. I sent a few "honor shaming" emails to Ronald and Steve. Still nothing.

A couple of items that hopefully help you not be a part of something like this:
  • Zelle has no protections. And, to be absolutely clear and fair to them, they are absolutely clear about this. A Zelle transaction is virtual cash. Imagine handing someone a stack of cash. That is what it is. There is no recourse. Once it leaves your hand, and you confirm multiple times it’s ok and that you know who you’re sending it to (which of course I clicked “yes”) it’s gone. No recourse, no recall, no protection.
  • The phone number was a real number, answered by a woman who was not interested in talking to me or about Steve.
  • The names Steve was giving me as the recipient was not him. It was his secretary, and it changed three times.
  • My bank has a relationship with Zelle as their facilitator for online fund transfer. After I realized I was scammed, I talked with them and they said Zelle is a contractor and not part of the bank. So I don’t have protection from online fraud, nor help from their online fraud department.
  • Zelle is clear that they’re just the facilitator. If you say it’s ok to send, that’s all the approval they need to send the money. I filed a fraud claim with them anyway. 30 days later, no response.
  • The money went through Zelle to another bank. That bank then, as I understand it, routed it to a bank that puts the money straight into debit/gift cards. The money is gone, they have no interest in assistance.
  • The US Government does have a department for investigating internet fraud. I filed a report and a form with them. 30 days later, no response.
  • To be clear ONCE THE MONEY IS GONE, IT’S GONE. THERE IS NO DISPUTE TO RESOLVE AS YOU’VE GIVEN THE OK TO SEND IT. This isn’t like a credit or debit card purchase where you have some protections. I sent the money in good faith that once received they would send the forks. Just like if they had sent the forks prior to payment they would have done so in good faith that I would pay.
I have searched on the Internet for his opening text and found more under Ronald001 and even a couple under Ronald002. I’ve emailed their site admins to let them know. Some appreciate it, some don’t.

I know this has been a long read. I haven’t hidden much. If you have questions about any of this, please ask in a reply and I’ll respond publicly as much as I can (or via conversation if you’d like).

I was lazy and eager and was not critical enough, overlooking many red flags for my convenience. That does not absolve Ronald, Steve, or Brianna of being criminals.

Hopefully, this all helps someone else from going down the same path.

Bpop
I can't like that one but as I'm pretty familiar with Ashland Va. here are some possible tips. Ashland is a small town in Hanover county VA but both the town and Hanover County have law enforcement. I would file complaints with them on the off chance the crooks actually used their own addess. Probably didn't but it's only a couple of phone calls. Center Street actually exists and is a real address so probably the person was in some way familiar with Ashland. That doesn't mean they are still there, just that at some point they had a reason to pick that address. It's both a college town and within easy commuting distance of Richmond so there are a fair number of transients who come and go.

If you can find out which bank paid the money on the receiving end, it's entirely possible the police could then find the recipient(s). I've never used Zelle but there is a trail somewhere.

Since it involves the banking system and interstate commerce either the FDIC or the FBI or both could have jurisdiction if they chose to get involved. They probably won't because there are bigger fish to fry, but I'd file a complaint just in case.

Sorry you got burned but thank you for taking the time to warn others. That's a stand up attitude and I salute you.

Treefarmer
 

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List it like this: 95six-8two5-one53six. I no longer get scammers when I list like that.
Good tip.
Sorry you got burned but thank you for taking the time to warn others. That's a stand up attitude and I salute you.
Bpop,
I salute you as well. I have met many people from this site and to a person they have been nothing but genuine. I am surprised they found it in our wanted to buy but I suppose they know how to manipulate search engines for this. Thank you for posting this information, it in Itself shows you are upstanding and here to help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I can't like that one but as I'm pretty familiar with Ashland Va. here are some possible tips. Ashland is a small town in Hanover county VA but both the town and Hanover County have law enforcement. I would file complaints with them on the off chance the crooks actually used their own addess. Probably didn't but it's only a couple of phone calls. Center Street actually exists and is a real address so probably the person was in some way familiar with Ashland. That doesn't mean they are still there, just that at some point they had a reason to pick that address. It's both a college town and within easy commuting distance of Richmond so there are a fair number of transients who come and go.

If you can find out which bank paid the money on the receiving end, it's entirely possible the police could then find the recipient(s). I've never used Zelle but there is a trail somewhere.

Since it involves the banking system and interstate commerce either the FDIC or the FBI or both could have jurisdiction if they chose to get involved. They probably won't because there are bigger fish to fry, but I'd file a complaint just in case.

Sorry you got burned but thank you for taking the time to warn others. That's a stand up attitude and I salute you.

Treefarmer
Credit where credit is due. Kylew suggested I do it. I just followed through.

Interesting thought on reaching out to the local LEO's. As noted above, I've focused on leaving this all behind but I might reach out to them this weekend. The phone number Steve gave did have a girl answering (she actually called me back here as a missed call). Wasn't very chatty though. :)
 

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I hate it for you but you learned a valuable lesson and made it more valuable by sharing it to help others. Like @Herminator said, I salute you. Still sorry you lost your money. I think @Treefarmer offered some good advice if you have the opportunity, I'd try what he recommended, it can't make it any worse.

Edit: I see you did that, good luck.
 

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Fortunately you only got taken for a few hundred bucks. While painful, it could have been a LOT worse.

I do appreciate your posting the details of your experience. It's a good reminder to stay on our toes.
 

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The phone number Steve gave did have a girl answering
She's probably just another innocent victim in all this. The 859 area code is Northern Kentucky not Virginia.
 
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