[Hagak]

The sb1154 is a rear mount blower I believe. I was never a huge fan of looking over my shoulder while blowing. I know the front blower carries a premium, but I’d recommend it over rear-facing.
Also, have you considered the Mauser cab, especially if your not doing the backhoe, it may be worth it based on your windchill.

I have a front mount blower and i like it, however one PRO for a rear mount besides cost is you can keep the FEL on and i suspect a rear mount with a quick hitch is easier to swap out than a front mount.

While taking the FEL on and off is easy, I can not get the front mount blower on and off with gloves on and doing that in sub-zero weather is not exactly fun which means the blower stays on all winter. Would i replace it with a rear mount no, with a 1/4 mile driveway and another 1/4 mile to the main road doing that in reverse does not sound like fun. But if I had a shorter amount the rear mount would maybe be worth it.

 

[ejb69]

If I was to buy a new tractor today it would be the 2025r.

If I wasn’t going to mow my lawn and run a front mount blower , I would take a hard look at the 3025e , maybe even the larger 3e’s. It just seems to me you get more tractor for the money. The 2 biggest downsides to the 3e tractor are the lack of mid pto and the loader isnt quick attach.

 

[chex313]

If you are putting the lawn in and even cleaning up after the builder, a landscape rake is very useful and saves a lot of manual time. It can also be helpful in keeping your gravel drive in shape and even putting the gravel back into your drive when the snowblower relocates it.

In my area, Frontier implements sell easier to others when used, than do other brands. But keep in mind if you have a loan with a lien on the equipment, you can't sell it until the loan is paid off. Deere doesn't let you sell assets as you don't need them if you still have a loan against the items and a lien on them.

How would they tell if you sold an implement Sulley? It's not like they are going to ever come check...lol

 

[TPS]

@darkrabbit

I’m just curious on your decision to go with the MSL over the NSL. I just ordered a 1025R with the NSL as after watching TTWT’s videos, he pretty much concluded it’s likely worth the upgrade for the 2032/2038, but not for the 1023/1025/2025 based on some of the curling limitations and binding quirks. He also found the MSL didn’t add the lift capacity on the 120R loader that it did the 220R.

Do you have a lot of pallet work and will you be loading/unloading from trucks? I could see it as an advantage there.

Thanks and congrats! You’ve actually got me thinking about the 2025 instead of the 1025. Storage space is at a premium in my situation and I’m not sure I can afford the extra width!

 

[Wvdeere]

@darkrabbit

I’m just curious on your decision to go with the MSL over the NSL. I just ordered a 1025R with the NSL as after watching TTWT’s videos, he pretty much concluded it’s likely worth the upgrade for the 2032/2038, but not for the 1023/1025/2025 based on some of the curling limitations and binding quirks. He also found the MSL didn’t add the lift capacity on the 120R loader that it did the 220R

Do you have a lot of pallet work and will you be loading/unloading from trucks? I could see it as an advantage there.

Thanks and congrats! You’ve actually got me thinking about the 2025 instead of the 1025. Storage space is a premium and I’m not sure I can afford the extra width!

Believe the 1025 and 2025 width is within an inch. Both are close to 48inches wide. With 2” spacers my 2025 is only at 52 inches wide.

 

[ClydeLogan]

How would they tell if you sold an implement Sulley? It's not like they are going to ever come check...lol

I read on the internet that they have embedded microchips for tracking that link each implement with the chip in the buyer's vaccine.

 

[edawg]

2025R Gen2 owner here and will chime in... Think about a rear-blade that both pivots and tilts for landscaping, keeping driveway edges and ditching. Even before the box blade in priorities. Also suggest R3 radial tires for the mowing duties and overall comfort running around the property over freshly graded/cleared areas. Bias-play R4s with fluid are gonna be rougher and long-term be more likely to tear up turf. 42" pallet forks are just fine with as tall/solid a headache rack as you can stand. I have a grapple that I've used once for tree work, then it's sat since and I could have used my forks for that job moving logs to the splitting/storage point as well as clearing tops as well. So I for one don't think the grapple is worth doing up front, nor the front diverter valve. See how you get along with the forks first. Put that money saved towards a stump bucket for the loader for ditching, planting and all the stuff that crazy expensive backhoe costs for the new house landscaping... Titan Attachments has a nice one for the Deere loader under $1K delivered last I checked, but they've been short on stock during COVID. You're gonna love that machine!

 

[darkrabbit]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, this is awesome, and extremely helpful. Lots of great comments. I will need to redo my build sheet

2025R vs 2032R
This is still a consideration, especially after reading these posts The price for me is so high though, that I don't know whether I want to do it. I would like the extra power, and the extra loader capacity... some great points made on the additional loss of power with filled tires, etc. I have a relatively flat yard though. I also like the controls better on the 2032R. I don't know, it seems like a better tractor but the price difference... yikes. I am going to work out the final difference in price with all options, and decide from there.

Lighting
Thanks for all the feedback on this, I think I am going to pull the lighting out of the options list and get aftermarket. I don't want to pay more for LED's than I have to.

Land Plane / Box Blade / Rear Blade
I had considered a land plane but they are a bit pricey, and it seems like a box blade can do the same thing? Maybe not AS good, but close? Plus it has a bit more capability especially when it comes to repairing potholes. Not sure, I might have to do more research on it and see whether I can justify the cost for both...

There seems to be a lot of crossover in capability between box blade, land plane, rear blade, etc. It's certainly challenging to decide.

There's also the landscape rake which might be useful for rocks / debris / etc.

I am sure, without trying very hard, I could have 15 implements in my garage very quickly

Ballast / Box
I never even considered using the box blade for ballast, didn't think it was heavy enough. A search shows the BB5060 box blade I tentatively chose is only ~350lbs, which is 400lbs short of the rear hitch weight requirement for a fully loaded 120R FEL. Unless I am missing something? Maybe I need to find a heavier box blade

The reason I went with filled tires, weights, AND ballast box is because I read the more weight the better / more stable when the loader is full. I should do the math on the ballast and figure it out. If I can avoid wheel weights, great, then use the box blade, even better. Then if I need more for whatever reason, add weight later.

NSL vs MSL Loader
I saw the TTWT video on it and while the MSL does have the odd binding issue it doesn't seem to be too bad, and doesn't seem to outweigh the value of having the loader self level. When I was watching the video, the maneuvers which caused the binding are avoidable. I am thinking of using it for pallets and unloading / loading onto a vehicle or trailer once in a while. Not a lot, but some. And if it will make the process easier I figure why not. Plus when lifting and carrying gravel, soil, etc it might be useful. I am going to rewatch the video though, and see if I am still okay with it. I also don't know if the MSL costs more, Deere's site doesn't seem to indicate this.

Hydraulics
I am heavily leaning on adding a Power Beyond kit (which is relatively inexpensive) so I can add the Summit hydraulic rear remote. Seems the 3rd SCV is ~$950CDN for 1 spool. Meanwhile I can get PB and the summit kit which gives 2-4 spools and an electric control for about the same price. I do like that. Unless I am missing something, this seems to be the way to go. I don't plan on splitting wood with it, I had read it wasn't strong enough.

Front Snowblower
Yeah I considered the front mount for a while but I chose the rear blower specifically to have the loader on the front to help clear snow. I have no issue looking backward, at least not yet. Plus the price difference is substantial, it's too much for a front mount once all the necessary hardware is added. As far as a cab, I will get a soft shell cab that's easy to remove if I feel I need it. And I likely will. Hard cabs are too difficult to remove and the price is astronomical.


It's a lot to consider, for sure. I am hoping to get my order in this upcoming week, so I really appreciate all the comments, extremely helpful!

-J

 

[Hagak]

Make sure when you are looking at the MSL vs NSL you are looking at the right one for the tractor. The 2025 uses the 120 FEL and the reviews of the MSL have been pretty bad, but the one on the 2038 is the 220 FEL and its reviews have been rather good.

Really the 120 FEL on the 2025 is the 2025 biggest weakness.

The BB2060 I think weighs in at about 500# and you can throw 4x 42# weights on it getting you to 668# and add the quick hitch at 70# you are up to 738#, not all the weigh to the requirement but pretty good for doing light work. Probably would not haul stone like that, but dirt sure.

 

[alanaka24]

I just yesterday carried pallets of wall block weighing in at about 720lbs with just my box blade as ballast and it felt plenty stable. Carrying that much weight I would normally throw a few bags of tube sand on top of the BB for extra weight but I just wanted to see how it handled it with the BB only..no additional weight. I don't want anyone to get the impression that I'm advocating safety shortcuts but just wanted to throw it out there that if you're in a pinch. Obviously if you're on the edge of being too light on ballast you need to carry your load VERY low and go VERY slow but it can be done.

 

[RalphVa]

Need a 2019R with turning brakes. Without turning brakes, I'd be directed to a B2301. Still has turning brakes but missing FEL level indicator. Can easily add that but not turning brakes.

 

[MattL]

Land Plane / Box Blade / Rear Blade

There's also the landscape rake which might be useful for rocks / debris / etc.

Hydraulics
I am heavily leaning on adding a Power Beyond kit (which is relatively inexpensive) so I can add the Summit hydraulic rear remote. Seems the 3rd SCV is ~$950CDN for 1 spool. Meanwhile I can get PB and the summit kit which gives 2-4 spools and an electric control for about the same price. I do like that. Unless I am missing something, this seems to be the way to go. I don't plan on splitting wood with it, I had read it wasn't strong
It's a lot to consider, for sure. I am hoping to get my order in this upcoming week, so I really appreciate all the comments, extremely helpful!

-J

The box blade hangs further back on the 3pt, increasing the "effective load". The further back the weight the heavier it is relative to the 3pt and as a counter weight to the FEL. Putting a few suitcase weights on the back of the box helps more than the same suitcase weights mounted at the 3pt arm pins.

Landscape rakes seem to always be available in my area on Craigslist. Might be a cheaper option than a Frontier. (Full disclosure: browsing CL is my equivalent of scrolling a "facebook feed")

With the PB and summit kit, being that it was made for a 1025R this will require some modifications to your application, but, recalling it's limited to drilling a few new holes. I'm very happy with my kit. Another positive is TTWT is working on a hose and switch kit to run one of the rear spools for a 3 function for the FEL. I purchased the 4 spool kit because the cost versus the two or three was minimal (relatively) and with a hydraulic top link, a Hydraulic dump MCS and the potential for a 3rd function for the FEL, it seemed to make sense, leaving an extra spool for a tilt or some other 3pt Hydraulic function.. if you build it, it'll come! PB for a log splitter would pretty slow with the 1025/2025 flow rate.

 

[12dbsinad]

How much snow do you usually get? That would alter my decision on a front vs rear blower. Having the loader on while having the ability to snow blow certainly has it's advantages. My optimal set-up would be a rear blower and front loader mounted plow. The advantage here is you could quickly clear your drive with smaller snows (like under 6") fast. You could even wing the snow to each side, then take the blower and blow the banking with 2 passes.

As far as cost of upgrading to a larger 2 series, yeah, it isn't cheap. Depending on your location it's easily a 10K upgrade just for the machine and loader. You're also getting into the world of emissions and re-gen... not sure if that's a big deal to you or not but there certainly is more to go wrong as the machine ages. So far my 2025R has done everything I've asked of it on my 10 acres. Sure, sometimes I wish it was stronger, but I also wished I owned a skidsteer and mini-ex, none of which I can justify to own.

The good part about a decision like this is I don't think you'll go wrong with whatever you choose by the sounds of your application.

 

[darkrabbit]

Make sure when you are looking at the MSL vs NSL you are looking at the right one for the tractor. The 2025 uses the 120 FEL and the reviews of the MSL have been pretty bad, but the one on the 2038 is the 220 FEL and its reviews have been rather good.

Really the 120 FEL on the 2025 is the 2025 biggest weakness.

Yep I looked at the 120 FEL for sure, I don't know where the reviews are that it's that bad... I can't seem to find many. I'll keep looking though. The only bad part seems to be the binding which looks to be easily avoidable, so while people say it's a weakness I can't seem to get a firm answer as to why. If they're saying the 120FEL is a weakness whether NSL or MSL, there's not a whole lot I can do about it if I buy a 2025R.

I just yesterday carried pallets of wall block weighing in at about 720lbs with just my box blade as ballast and it felt plenty stable. Carrying that much weight I would normally throw a few bags of tube sand on top of the BB for extra weight but I just wanted to see how it handled it with the BB only..no additional weight. I don't want anyone to get the impression that I'm advocating safety shortcuts but just wanted to throw it out there that if you're in a pinch. Obviously if you're on the edge of being too light on ballast you need to carry your load VERY low and go VERY slow but it can be done.

Yep, I think I might look at the BB2060 as it seems to be heavier and more rigid, then as a bonus I could use it as a ballast. As it does hang back further (as MattL mentioned below) it might work. At the end of the day if I find it isn't enough I can always add weight and even go get a ballast box later.

The box blade hangs further back on the 3pt, increasing the "effective load". The further back the weight the heavier it is relative to the 3pt and as a counter weight to the FEL. Putting a few suitcase weights on the back of the box helps more than the same suitcase weights mounted at the 3pt arm pins.

Landscape rakes seem to always be available in my area on Craigslist. Might be a cheaper option than a Frontier. (Full disclosure: browsing CL is my equivalent of scrolling a "facebook feed")

With the PB and summit kit, being that it was made for a 1025R this will require some modifications to your application, but, recalling it's limited to drilling a few new holes. I'm very happy with my kit. Another positive is TTWT is working on a hose and switch kit to run one of the rear spools for a 3 function for the FEL. I purchased the 4 spool kit because the cost versus the two or three was minimal (relatively) and with a hydraulic top link, a Hydraulic dump MCS and the potential for a 3rd function for the FEL, it seemed to make sense, leaving an extra spool for a tilt or some other 3pt Hydraulic function.. if you build it, it'll come! PB for a log splitter would pretty slow with the 1025/2025 flow rate.

I think I'll be spending a lot of time on Kijiji / CL heh heh. There's definitely some deals to be had.

From what I read here and saw on TTWT there's nearly no difference in kits between the 2025R and 1025R except for the mounting bracket which needs to be a bit bigger. I can have one fabricated if I need to, but looks like one might be available. One thing is for sure, if I don't have to pay JD $3000+ for 3 spools I am not going to

How much snow do you usually get? That would alter my decision on a front vs rear blower. Having the loader on while having the ability to snow blow certainly has it's advantages. My optimal set-up would be a rear blower and front loader mounted plow. The advantage here is you could quickly clear your drive with smaller snows (like under 6") fast. You could even wing the snow to each side, then take the blower and blow the banking with 2 passes.

As far as cost of upgrading to a larger 2 series, yeah, it isn't cheap. Depending on your location it's easily a 10K upgrade just for the machine and loader. You're also getting into the world of emissions and re-gen... not sure if that's a big deal to you or not but there certainly is more to go wrong as the machine ages. So far my 2025R has done everything I've asked of it on my 10 acres. Sure, sometimes I wish it was stronger, but I also wished I owned a skidsteer and mini-ex, none of which I can justify to own.

The good part about a decision like this is I don't think you'll go wrong with whatever you choose by the sounds of your application.

I may very well look at a loader mounted plow since it's a long driveway and I am not certain I want to snowblow for 4" of snow. I'll check price. I'd just want to get some shoes on it so I don't put half my driveway in the snow bank.

I re-priced the 2032R over the weekend and I think I am just going to stick to the 2025R. If I find it is underpowered I can always trade or sell and keep most of the implements. I just can't justify the price tag increase when there will be many other things to spend that money on.

 

[MattL]

@darkrabbit I think the biggest "weakness" of the 120R is the lifting capacity. With light weight forks, expect 600-700ish lbs max lifting capacity, you're not going to be unloading pallets of pellets! It's rare that the H120 let's me down, but more FEL lifting capacity is always helpful, and I'm sure if I had a 5125R I could find a way I need more lifting capacity. 🤣

 

[TPS]

Yep I looked at the 120 FEL for sure, I don't know where the reviews are that it's that bad... I can't seem to find many. I'll keep looking though. The only bad part seems to be the binding which looks to be easily avoidable, so while people say it's a weakness I can't seem to get a firm answer as to why. If they're saying the 120FEL is a weakness whether NSL or MSL, there's not a whole lot I can do about it if I buy a 2025R.

Hey @darkrabbit. I replied earlier in this thread, but I wanted to to offer some more thoughts while you consider your decision about the loader.

I recently went through this decision-making process with ordering my 1025R and ended up going with the NSL loader. I typically want the most updated, best version of anything I'm buying. I did as much research as I could. This included watching TTWT's full series on the MSL loaders versus the NSL loaders, reading the Deere literature on the new loader, and speaking to my dealer. Unfortunately, there's just not a lot of resources for reviews out there based on real-world usage yet. But, TTWT did an extensive breakdown in his video series and completed some very practical testing and comparisons.

I was willing to pay the extra money for the MSL loader if it added the advertised lifting capacity and provided additional functionality for my uses. It was concluded in TTWT's testing that for the 120R loader, the MSL version did not offer any appreciable difference in lifting capacity over the NSL version. Additionally, you lose what I consider to be a significant amount of the curling function and free manipulation of the loader and bucket with the MSL version. WIth the 220R MSL loader, you at least get the advertised increase in loader capacity when giving up other functionality. In my opinion, with the 120R, you're likely paying extra for an option that doesn't add capacity and can detract from your everyday use, unless you're main uses are for loading/unloading trucks/trailers and pallet work.

I will rarely, if ever, be using the loader for pallet work. The overwhelming use of my loader will be for dirt, stone, mulch, and various tasks with the bucket and grapple in my yard. If you think you'll be using the loader for loading/unloading trucks and other pallet work, then maybe it's worth it for you.

A benefit of the MSL is the safety aspect. It's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to drop a load of material back on your tractor due to the self-leveling feature and limitations of the curling function. Conversely, I would personally rather learn to be a better loader operator and learn how to use every feature of the NSL loader to my favor instead of relying on the self-leveling function.

Either way, this is a personal decision that only you can make for yourself. I don't know Tim from TTWT personally, but I do make it a point to watch his videos and try to learn everything I can about the 1025R and how to use tractors in general. I trust his information because it's based on real-world use and practical, everyday projects. I don't care what the Deere advertisements say if they don't translate to real-world applications.

In the comments section of one of TTWT's loader comparison videos, someone asked a question about which loader Tim prefers. Here is the question and answer...

Question: After using both loaders with the auto level would you have any hesitation on buying the self leveling loader? Or would you keep the one that does not auto level ? Do you find the quarks to be too much with the auto leveling loader? Thanks for you opinion on this.

TTWT: For the 1025r, I would buy NSL. For 2038r, I’m not sure...the increased lift capacity would be helpful!

That simple answer went a long way for me. This answer is coming from a long-time Deere owner who is constantly using his tractors, and specifically the 120R loader, for practical and real-world projects. Tim's not even completely sold on the MSL loader for the 2038R based on his answer.

I'll stick with the NSL loader for my needs. I'm sure you'll make the right decision for your application.

 

[edawg]

@darkrabbit, For the rear blade/box/rake dilemma, some higher end rear blades come with optional side plates to keep gravel inside the edges as you pull a driveway. Then you can take the sides off for snow pulling or rearward pushing in snow season. Everythingattachments has really nice (but priced accordingly) stuff that is built for a lifetime (or sell it for at least 80% of what you paid later if it's been looked after) and the 5' models are heavy as many box blades. Or check MK Marten for Canadian exchange rate favorable deals on attachments (that might be black or yellow instead of green, but good local product but a bit lighter steel).

Definitely get the dealer to do the Power Beyond. It's a pain as TTWT's install video showed. The Summit kit hydraulic kit is the fun part with more instant gratification... Doing a hydraulic blade with top and tilt is a pinnacle in tractor luxury that's coming down to the smaller machines and perhaps upsetting some tractor manufacturers who used to keep these to larger frame sized machines to sell pricier machines. Saving my shekels for hydraulics someday for top and tilt and then maybe a small flail mower for ditches, lake edges, etc. Will it never end? Nope! ;-)

 

[FurlongFarms]

Some great options and opinions so far. I would skip the weights and have the tires filled. Also skip the ballast box and keep an implement attached. Quick hitch is the key and add the hydraulic options from the factory. You will need/want them later. Lights can be added very easy with an R model. I have some small LEDs zip tied in the rear that can change from white to flashing amber and plug right into the extra light plug the R model has and only cost a few dollars. As far as the size of tractor my thoughts are this. I also wanted a 2 series, however with the price difference on bigger machines we went went a 1025R and configured it with what we needed. I watched a neighbor later get a 2025R with a cab and for that price I have a 1025R with curtis cab and every attachment I need plus some I just wanted. An expensive tractor with no money left for attachments leads to frustration. If you go with the 2025 over the 2032 but have a few attachments to make the tractor more useful than thats a win in my book. Plus you will want or maybe need a trailer and then weight is a factor. Either way you will always regret not getting a bigger tractor. Even if you do get the bigger one.

 

[BWTX]

2025R owner here - If you plan on doing a moderate amount of dirt work then I'd go NSL as I can't imagine having less curl than I have now (I want more than I have!). Power Beyond for sure as it makes your tractor flexible and easy to add other stuff (backhoe?) in the future if you want. Auto throttle is one of the things I like way more than I thought - it is very useful. R3's are awesome but I wouldn't get them filled if you can ballast in another method AND are going to be mowing. With loader/backhoe removed I just mowed with R3's and it didn't do anything to the yard my regular rider doesn't do. I have the 3rdscv and the av120F grapple which have already paid for themselves..unlike most the pallet forks I ended up getting real cheap have been used once. It really depends on your situation and what you will be doing with your tractor as to what ends up being valuable. I have about 3.5 acres with a LOT of trees (that I have trimmed over head height!) and I use the grapple all the time and will use it extensively once a year when I do my annual trimming. Only maybe regret is the mower deck...I've used it once and it works great but the RIO (which will be going away real quick) and the rops (even when folded) are frustrating. The tractor is VERY nimble and even when turning sharp the R3's are real gentle on the turf as long as when at full lock you go slow and don't try and force the front end to turn faster than it wants. The ROPS are by far the most frustrating thing on the tractor but as I get trees trimmed better I will adjust...it's just frustrating. I didn't read all the posts so not sure if you plan on using it to mow but if you do I'd skip the wheel ballast and use a ballast box/etc... as that is the most flexible solution.

 

[darkrabbit]

Hey @darkrabbit. I replied earlier in this thread, but I wanted to to offer some more thoughts while you consider your decision about the loader.

I recently went through this decision-making process with ordering my 1025R and ended up going with the NSL loader. I typically want the most updated, best version of anything I'm buying. I did as much research as I could. This included watching TTWT's full series on the MSL loaders versus the NSL loaders, reading the Deere literature on the new loader, and speaking to my dealer. Unfortunately, there's just not a lot of resources for reviews out there based on real-world usage yet. But, TTWT did an extensive breakdown in his video series and completed some very practical testing and comparisons.

I was willing to pay the extra money for the MSL loader if it added the advertised lifting capacity and provided additional functionality for my uses. It was concluded in TTWT's testing that for the 120R loader, the MSL version did not offer any appreciable difference in lifting capacity over the NSL version. Additionally, you lose what I consider to be a significant amount of the curling function and free manipulation of the loader and bucket with the MSL version. WIth the 220R MSL loader, you at least get the advertised increase in loader capacity when giving up other functionality. In my opinion, with the 120R, you're likely paying extra for an option that doesn't add capacity and can detract from your everyday use, unless you're main uses are for loading/unloading trucks/trailers and pallet work.

I will rarely, if ever, be using the loader for pallet work. The overwhelming use of my loader will be for dirt, stone, mulch, and various tasks with the bucket and grapple in my yard. If you think you'll be using the loader for loading/unloading trucks and other pallet work, then maybe it's worth it for you.

A benefit of the MSL is the safety aspect. It's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to drop a load of material back on your tractor due to the self-leveling feature and limitations of the curling function. Conversely, I would personally rather learn to be a better loader operator and learn how to use every feature of the NSL loader to my favor instead of relying on the self-leveling function.

Either way, this is a personal decision that only you can make for yourself. I don't know Tim from TTWT personally, but I do make it a point to watch his videos and try to learn everything I can about the 1025R and how to use tractors in general. I trust his information because it's based on real-world use and practical, everyday projects. I don't care what the Deere advertisements say if they don't translate to real-world applications.

In the comments section of one of TTWT's loader comparison videos, someone asked a question about which loader Tim prefers. Here is the question and answer...

Question: After using both loaders with the auto level would you have any hesitation on buying the self leveling loader? Or would you keep the one that does not auto level ? Do you find the quarks to be too much with the auto leveling loader? Thanks for you opinion on this.

TTWT: For the 1025r, I would buy NSL. For 2038r, I’m not sure...the increased lift capacity would be helpful!

That simple answer went a long way for me. This answer is coming from a long-time Deere owner who is constantly using his tractors, and specifically the 120R loader, for practical and real-world projects. Tim's not even completely sold on the MSL loader for the 2038R based on his answer.

I'll stick with the NSL loader for my needs. I'm sure you'll make the right decision for your application.

You guys aren't making this any easier lol. I appreciate the feedback, my two hangups are 1) that the MSL seems to be easier to work with forks and frankly anything else you want to keep level, and 2) safety. I may not be the only one operating this thing and the other person might make a mistake that causes a serious issue. The last thing I want is someone else to dump a bucket on the tractor or the ground because they're not paying enough attention to what they're doing. Yes, ideally the person operating should be very careful, aware, etc etc etc but in reality mistakes happen and MSL seems to do an awful lot to mitigate those mistakes. I have a small child as well and another being constructed and they have a tendency to run around and may not always be careful.

I watched TTWT's videos again just now, and I see it's not just binding but curling as well. I know I can't lower the MSL at full dump without first uncurling it a bit due to binding, but I can't see a situation where that's a problem.. Not sure where I would need to lower the FEL with the bucket at full dump 8 feet in the air. Also, as far as curl, yeah THAT I could see being more of an issue, when Tim curled the MSL upward it didn't curl as much and a light bulb went off in my head. Without full curl, the dirt / gravel in the FEL couldn't roll back as far so it might take more practice and maybe some shaking to get the bucket completely full... but again I am not sure this issue outweighs the value to me. Here's the other thing someone mentioned in the comments of one of the videos: That the fact that you can't curl AND lift the FEL at the same time with the JD controls is actually a downside to the NSL. At any one time you can either curl the bucket OR lift it. Not both. Whereas with other machines you can. So with MSL, you can ensure your bucket always stays level despite the JD's loader control limitations. Very interesting.

It's also important to note I care little about extra capability or lift capacity as I wasn't expecting it. If it has the same or close to the same as the NSL then it's a win for me. If I was really concerned about lift I'd get the 2032R Now if I HAD NSL already, then I would definitely not get MSL because it's another $6k+ for very little gain and a binding / curling limitation. But I have nothing, so for an extra few hundred it might be worth it (that few hundred is 700 it turns out...)

@darkrabbit, For the rear blade/box/rake dilemma, some higher end rear blades come with optional side plates to keep gravel inside the edges as you pull a driveway. Then you can take the sides off for snow pulling or rearward pushing in snow season. Everythingattachments has really nice (but priced accordingly) stuff that is built for a lifetime (or sell it for at least 80% of what you paid later if it's been looked after) and the 5' models are heavy as many box blades. Or check MK Marten for Canadian exchange rate favorable deals on attachments (that might be black or yellow instead of green, but good local product but a bit lighter steel).

Definitely get the dealer to do the Power Beyond. It's a pain as TTWT's install video showed. The Summit kit hydraulic kit is the fun part with more instant gratification... Doing a hydraulic blade with top and tilt is a pinnacle in tractor luxury that's coming down to the smaller machines and perhaps upsetting some tractor manufacturers who used to keep these to larger frame sized machines to sell pricier machines. Saving my shekels for hydraulics someday for top and tilt and then maybe a small flail mower for ditches, lake edges, etc. Will it never end? Nope! ;-)

Thanks for this! I'll check them out. Canadian exchange is one thing, actually getting it here is something different what with the pandemic. I could pop across the border no problem 2 years ago. 6 months ago, the US was nowhere you wanted to go, and now Canada is nowhere you want to go heh heh. At least not Ontario. Either way, it means closed borders and I can't imagine shipping an implement is terribly cheap.

PB is definitely going on from the dealer. I wish it was a factory option as opposed to dealer installed, because it looks like I might have to pay them to do it? Sucks.

Some great options and opinions so far. I would skip the weights and have the tires filled. Also skip the ballast box and keep an implement attached. Quick hitch is the key and add the hydraulic options from the factory. You will need/want them later. Lights can be added very easy with an R model. I have some small LEDs zip tied in the rear that can change from white to flashing amber and plug right into the extra light plug the R model has and only cost a few dollars. As far as the size of tractor my thoughts are this. I also wanted a 2 series, however with the price difference on bigger machines we went went a 1025R and configured it with what we needed. I watched a neighbor later get a 2025R with a cab and for that price I have a 1025R with curtis cab and every attachment I need plus some I just wanted. An expensive tractor with no money left for attachments leads to frustration. If you go with the 2025 over the 2032 but have a few attachments to make the tractor more useful than thats a win in my book. Plus you will want or maybe need a trailer and then weight is a factor. Either way you will always regret not getting a bigger tractor. Even if you do get the bigger one.

Yep this is how I am leaning, sticking with tires filled and implements for weight, etc. Re the tractor, I have to strike that balance between what I need and what I can afford right now It may take me a few more loads to do what I want with the 2025R vs the 2032R but that just means I get to drive more heh heh. Plus like you said the price difference is a lot of attachments.

2025R owner here - If you plan on doing a moderate amount of dirt work then I'd go NSL as I can't imagine having less curl than I have now (I want more than I have!). Power Beyond for sure as it makes your tractor flexible and easy to add other stuff (backhoe?) in the future if you want. Auto throttle is one of the things I like way more than I thought - it is very useful. R3's are awesome but I wouldn't get them filled if you can ballast in another method AND are going to be mowing. With loader/backhoe removed I just mowed with R3's and it didn't do anything to the yard my regular rider doesn't do. I have the 3rdscv and the av120F grapple which have already paid for themselves..unlike most the pallet forks I ended up getting real cheap have been used once. It really depends on your situation and what you will be doing with your tractor as to what ends up being valuable. I have about 3.5 acres with a LOT of trees (that I have trimmed over head height!) and I use the grapple all the time and will use it extensively once a year when I do my annual trimming. Only maybe regret is the mower deck...I've used it once and it works great but the RIO (which will be going away real quick) and the rops (even when folded) are frustrating. The tractor is VERY nimble and even when turning sharp the R3's are real gentle on the turf as long as when at full lock you go slow and don't try and force the front end to turn faster than it wants. The ROPS are by far the most frustrating thing on the tractor but as I get trees trimmed better I will adjust...it's just frustrating. I didn't read all the posts so not sure if you plan on using it to mow but if you do I'd skip the wheel ballast and use a ballast box/etc... as that is the most flexible solution.

Thanks for the feedback! Yeah I feel auto throttle might be good. I am not doing any mowing, so I am not too concerned about rear weight, and I don't have a lot of trees really, so I should be okay without the grapple and just forks for the time being. There's a marshy area with some dead trees in the back that I want to clean up, but I can probably swing it with the forks. That being said the AV20F grapple is interesting, doesn't appear too expensive, and could be in my future.