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Discussion Starter #1
Hey folks. I was wondering what is the best way to set up my 650's FEL hydraulics with the FEL I am building. I have the factory SCV and factory power steering but I have some concerns that due to the lack of an adjustable (or something around 1000 psi) pressure relief valve, I might cause damage to it if I overload it accidentally. As it sits, the system has a 2030 psi system (open center) and relief valves up near that range (factory main system and surge relief valves). I looked at the factory model 67 loaders offered on these tractors and it appears they use some sort of inline pressure release valve before hooking into the factory SCV that I have. How does this even work without a drain line to send excess fluid? Is this a viable option to get away from buying a whole new SCV for the FEL? Is there an aftermarket variation of this type of valve? Sorry for all the questions, thanks! model 67 loader relief valve.png
 

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I am unable to dive deep into this right now, but I would suggest that even though the drawing shows "relief valve", its more of a pilot valve to prevent dropping, maybe acting as sort of a load check of sorts.
I would not hesitate to add the FEL without them as long as you size your cylinders appropriately and not oversize them.
 
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Although operating a FEL control valve from scv isn't ideal the only time relief valve should be involved is when a cyl is attempted to extend past it's limit or one attempts to move load exceeding loaders hyd capacity. I think a similar type relief valve could be obtained from a hyd supply business such as Surplus Center or most open center spool valve I've seen have an adjustable relief valve built into spool body.. If you'll read the parts description for the relief valve in your post you'll determine that the 1000 psi valve(PT5222) is subbed to a 650 psi valve(PT7547)
 

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I have a 650 with a 67 loader that had been replumbed by the previous owner. Until I saw this post, I did not realize that valve was supposed to be there. Mine works fine using the main relief valve. Lifting the back of the tractor off the ground when you're at the limit keeps you awake.:mocking:

Al
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I am unable to dive deep into this right now, but I would suggest that even though the drawing shows "relief valve", its more of a pilot valve to prevent dropping, maybe acting as sort of a load check of sorts.
I would not hesitate to add the FEL without them as long as you size your cylinders appropriately and not oversize them.
Thanks for the input. I may have to look into the math regarding the cylinder sizes to be exact.

Although operating a FEL control valve from scv isn't ideal the only time relief valve should be involved is when a cyl is attempted to extend past it's limit or one attempts to move load exceeding loaders hyd capacity. I think a similar type relief valve could be obtained from a hyd supply business such as Surplus Center or most open center spool valve I've seen have an adjustable relief valve built into spool body.. If you'll read the parts description for the relief valve in your post you'll determine that the 1000 psi valve(PT5222) is subbed to a 650 psi valve(PT7547)
I have been looking online and am not quite sure what I am looking for exactly, most of the in-line relief valves I am finding have a third port for a tank return line. Am I correct in my understanding that all 4 lines heading to the FEL would be high pressure lines? (being they will power dual acting cylinders) I guess I don't understand how those factory relief valves (if they even are) do the job of relieving pressure and what, if any aftermarket options that there are to choose from to plumb in after the SCV on the FEL itself.

I have a 650 with a 67 loader that had been replumbed by the previous owner. Until I saw this post, I did not realize that valve was supposed to be there. Mine works fine using the main relief valve. Lifting the back of the tractor off the ground when you're at the limit keeps you awake.:mocking:

Al
Lol, are you not running any ballast?
 

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I have been looking online and am not quite sure what I am looking for exactly, most of the in-line relief valves I am finding have a third port for a tank return line. Am I correct in my understanding that all 4 lines heading to the FEL would be high pressure lines? (being they will power dual acting cylinders) I guess I don't understand how those factory relief valves (if they even are) do the job of relieving pressure and what, if any aftermarket options that there are to choose from to plumb in after the SCV on the FEL itself.
THIS is why I don't think they are "relief" valves, there is no return port. I suspect they are DPOCV's (double pilot operated check valves) or crossover relief/cushion valves.

Have you determined if they are plumbed on the lift/lower circuit or the dump/curl circuit?
 

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Lol, are you not running any ballast?
Yes, but I'm all about testing limits :lol:.

I have a set of clamp on forks. Lifted a 500# bundle of decking that was dumped on the driveway and only thought I was "all the way in". I was probably 2 feet short. Both the bundle and the rear wheels lifted at the same time!

Al
 

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Discussion Starter #8
THIS is why I don't think they are "relief" valves, there is no return port. I suspect they are DPOCV's (double pilot operated check valves) or crossover relief/cushion valves.

Have you determined if they are plumbed on the lift/lower circuit or the dump/curl circuit?
I couldn't find anymore info on the parts diagram to determine which it is for.

Yes, but I'm all about testing limits :lol:.

I have a set of clamp on forks. Lifted a 500# bundle of decking that was dumped on the driveway and only thought I was "all the way in". I was probably 2 feet short. Both the bundle and the rear wheels lifted at the same time!

Al
:laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
19650187_10154700346537322_2112324777_o.jpg

Well, as an update, I got my 54" bucket built. It's looking like the way to go with the hydraulics is just be careful and don't run too much weight on the back. Not sure if I really need more than a 1.5" bore x 1" rod cylinder for both the bucket and curl. At 2000 psi that gives me 3534 lbs of push and 1963 lbs of pull. Bumping it up to 2" bore x 1 1/8" rod gives me 6283 lbs of push and 4295 lbs of pull. Anyone have any input on this?
 

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View attachment 402610

Well, as an update, I got my 54" bucket built. It's looking like the way to go with the hydraulics is just be careful and don't run too much weight on the back. Not sure if I really need more than a 1.5" bore x 1" rod cylinder for both the bucket and curl. At 2000 psi that gives me 3534 lbs of push and 1963 lbs of pull. Bumping it up to 2" bore x 1 1/8" rod gives me 6283 lbs of push and 4295 lbs of pull. Anyone have any input on this?
IIRC, the stock hydraulics are 1.5" bore. The prior owner of my machine had replaced the curl cylinders with 2" unit from Dalton. My main complaint about them is that the resulting dump and recover is very slow, or at least slow for my taste. There seems to be no issue with the "oversize" cylinders ripping the bucket apart.

Al
 

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Discussion Starter #11
IIRC, the stock hydraulics are 1.5" bore. The prior owner of my machine had replaced the curl cylinders with 2" unit from Dalton. My main complaint about them is that the resulting dump and recover is very slow, or at least slow for my taste. There seems to be no issue with the "oversize" cylinders ripping the bucket apart.

Al
I found these specs for the model 60 loader's cylinders. I think I would conclude that 2" would be overkill and slow it down too much like you are saying.

Boom:
Bore - 1.5"
Stroke - 17.25"
Retracted - 24.75"
Pin - 0.75"
Rod - 1.125"

Bucket:
Bore - 1.75"
Stroke - 13.75"
Retracted - 28"
Pin - 0.75"
Rod - 1.125"
 

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I found these specs for the model 60 loader's cylinders. I think I would conclude that 2" would be overkill and slow it down too much like you are saying.

Boom:
Bore - 1.5"
Stroke - 17.25"
Retracted - 24.75"
Pin - 0.75"
Rod - 1.125"

Bucket:
Bore - 1.75"
Stroke - 13.75"
Retracted - 28"
Pin - 0.75"
Rod - 1.125"
I agree 100%, those look like good numbers to start with.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I have made a good bit a progress so far. I hope to have it completed within the next few weeks. I was wondering if anyone had any input on how far below grade you want your level bucket to be able to go. I left 1 1/4" of downstroke rod length with the bucket level and that ended up giving me about 4 3/4" of downwards travel on the boom so I would essentially be able to have my level bucket 4 3/4" below the grade. Is this too much? With the lift cylinders at full extension, I should have a 7 foot tall level bucket which for this size tractor seems pretty good. Should I bother moving my lift cylinder plates to maybe gain more height on the top end and have less below grade ability? I couldn't find any specific info other than looking at pictures and watching videos of people operating FELs.
 

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I have made a good bit a progress so far. I hope to have it completed within the next few weeks. I was wondering if anyone had any input on how far below grade you want your level bucket to be able to go. I left 1 1/4" of downstroke rod length with the bucket level and that ended up giving me about 4 3/4" of downwards travel on the boom so I would essentially be able to have my level bucket 4 3/4" below the grade. Is this too much? With the lift cylinders at full extension, I should have a 7 foot tall level bucket which for this size tractor seems pretty good. Should I bother moving my lift cylinder plates to maybe gain more height on the top end and have less below grade ability? I couldn't find any specific info other than looking at pictures and watching videos of people operating FELs.
I have not measured it, but my 67 loader will go about 6"-8" or so below grade. On level terrain it will lift the front wheels about 6" off the ground. If you want accuracy I could measure it for you tomorrow.

If I'm moving snow, I wish it would go a little higher. When I'm digging a hole (yes, I know it is not the right tool), I wish it would go a little lower.

Al
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have not measured it, but my 67 loader will go about 6"-8" or so below grade. On level terrain it will lift the front wheels about 6" off the ground. If you want accuracy I could measure it for you tomorrow.

If I'm moving snow, I wish it would go a little higher. When I'm digging a hole (yes, I know it is not the right tool), I wish it would go a little lower.

Al
Ah, well that's not too bad then, If it's not too much trouble, I would appreciate it! I might just leave it as is if I am that close.
 

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Ah, well that's not too bad then, If it's not too much trouble, I would appreciate it! I might just leave it as is if I am that close.
Well, I was way off.

I measured the height at the very front of the tractor using the cross member for the FEL that bolts on right below the hood hinges.

The difference between that point and the ground between the boom in float and fully retracted is 2.5". Maybe more important for you is that the difference in length of the boom cylinder between fully retracted and in float is exactly 1".

Al
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well, I was way off.

I measured the height at the very front of the tractor using the cross member for the FEL that bolts on right below the hood hinges.

The difference between that point and the ground between the boom in float and fully retracted is 2.5". Maybe more important for you is that the difference in length of the boom cylinder between fully retracted and in float is exactly 1".

Al
Thanks, I appreciate it! I think I will leave it as is, then. The extra depth might be handy. I ended up finding some specs of comparable size tractors (1025r & BX25) for reference and it seems to be the standard nowadays is 4-5 inches of dig depth and I even have a foot of extra lift height on them.
 

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Thanks, I appreciate it! I think I will leave it as is, then. The extra depth might be handy. I ended up finding some specs of comparable size tractors (1025r & BX25) for reference and it seems to be the standard nowadays is 4-5 inches of dig depth and I even have a foot of extra lift height on them.
See photo below. Note the highlighted square hole. I have no idea what it is for. But if it were round, the boom cylinder could be attached there and you would get a few more inches of depth at the expense of a loss of lift height.

Al


IMG_0289.JPG
 

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See photo below. Note the highlighted square hole. I have no idea what it is for....
I think those are for the parking stand kit.

TYP2243________UN01JAN94.gif
 
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