Green Tractor Talk banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I hopefully after all the rain delays am getting my new pole barn started in a couple weeks. It is approximately 150 feet from my house. Wanting to get WiFi out to the shop (got to check the posts here and read them to Johnny!). I am running water and power and thinking I might be smart to run a cat5 out to the barn in the same trench? Then put up a WiFi router? In the barn.
As far as security,I would like a basic system to let me know via IPhone if anything happens out there. I have simpli safe security at the house but talked to customer service and she told me that the cell service their system uses would most likely not work from inside a metal building. Really appreciated the honesty. She also said that it was too far away just to tie into my existing system. I really dont need the barn to be monitored, just send me a notification on the phone.
I am not really that technologically astute! As a matter of fact I gave up computers when I retired and work only on IPhone and IPads now so hopefully there is something that can be set up with them. I do have my mac laptop still but almost forgot how to turn it on!!
Really excited to get this barn going, been waiting a long time because all the builders in the area are booked out forever then we had this Amazonian wet weather all spring! It’s just a 32x30 with 2 overhead doors and one walk in.I will be doing all the inside finish work so will be a while yet till completion.
Any thoughts on these 2 items would greatly be appreciated and thanks to all that have contributed to all the things I have read and learned about here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
I can't answer any of your questions, but I am also wanting to do the same and will be watching this thread.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
17,263 Posts
Two 2” conduits should serve you, one for power and one for low voltage (I also have an air line in with the LV), CAT5 at 150’ is fine, but I’d step up to CAT6 or multimode fiber since it’s readily available-get cable made for outside use.

I have a router/extender in my pole barn (about 80’ away) that’s on the same network as the house so I can walk seamlessly between the two with no interruptions, I appreciate that because I stream XM on my phone all the time.

I also have a SimpliSafe in the barn, it does work for me if I keep the base if front of the window. I would love if they came out with a wired extension for these situations so we could use one base for two buildings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
928 Posts
When we built this house 30 years ago, networking and internet weren't a consideration. To get wifi out to my heated storage and workshop which is about 85 feet away in a stick-built 20x30 building, I put in a MESH router system about a year ago and that gets good wifi out there. But I agree with KennyD that conduit and CAT6 is the way to go. Likely more secure, but at $125 for 500 feet of CAT6 and Schedule 40 2-inch conduit at about $.80 a foot, that route would be substantially cheaper.

For security, I use Nest cameras which notify me of any visitors and keeps a record, and it works well for me. I don't know anything about SimpliSafe other than that SimpliSafe and Renewal by Andersen together are responsible for about 75% of my email SPAM.:banghead:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,695 Posts
Going from the new garage to the pole barn I have the following run.

2 x 2" conduit. (power and low voltage)
3 x 3/4" PEX (Air, Water and spare)
1 loop of 1" Thermo-PEX (future use for heat exchanger off boiler in new garage)

I have a buddy that can terminate fiber so I might do a fiber run out there or CAT6 at a minimum. You can pull premade fiber runs out there but the big problems are you are not going to gain much in terms of speed. It isn't like you are using a ton of bandwidth out there. The switch needed on both ends of that fiber are going to be more expensive and you run the risk of damaging the end if not careful pulling the fiber through 150' of conduit. If it were me and not have a huge tech need, then I would just do CAT6. I will likely do both.

As for the other stuff. I work in IT so to be honest my setup is far from average. I use Ubiquiti equipment for all networking. I used to use Cisco gear but I can buy new Ubiquiti equipment with support and a warranty for what I can buy Cisco gear for. With this I have a controller so that manages all my access points across the property and creates a mesh network so the devices seamlessly hand off from one access point to the next. I am running multiple VLANs (Virtual Networks) for isolation for things like the Kids, Guest Network and IoT stuff that I don't trust.

I hate monthly fees so I avoid the Ring/Nest and other similar service type systems. I have a Synology Diskstation (NAS) with tons of storage. This runs Surveillance Station which is a free app for up to 2 cameras. You can add more cameras but there is a one time licensing fee ($200 for a 4 pack of licenses). It does auto recording and alerting. However a Synology has a fairly steep entry fee for equipment if that is all you are using it for. You would have to do the math to see how much per year you pay now and when they payoff would be. Being I use it for ton of other stuff, it just makes sense. If you want to build your own Blue Iris is another good solution. Right now I am using the free version of the Synology because I only have 2 cameras. That will expand once I get done with construction and at that point in time I will have to decide, do I pay the $200 for another 4 pack of camera licenses or pay $70 I think for Blue Iris? Granted I need hardware for Blue Iris but remember I work in IT so I have all kinds of computers laying around that will run it. I will add a 10 Gigabit NIC to it and use the Synology for storage of the video. Then I can throw all the cameras I want at it and not worry about additional work load on the Synology impacting the other stuff I am doing there and no additional licensing fees.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,926 Posts
I'd certainly run some Cat5 or Cat6 in the trench, you can have Ethernet cable runs of 300 feet, but I would definitely run that cable in conduit so at some point you could pull fiberoptic cable in the future.
You have to be a bit careful anytime you run copper cabling from one building to another, especially low voltage wiring (i.e. Ethernet) as any nearby lightning strikes can induce a voltage which can damage the equipment at either end. Care should be taken to properly bond the grounds and if possible use Ethernet surge protectors at each end.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
778 Posts
My father in law has a 8 stall barn sitting 1,000ft away with nearly two dozen wifi cameras that live view and record using an NVR. My IT friend is the one who set it up for him. On the exterior of the house he has a small antenna that sends a line of sight signal to the other antenna (receiver) mounted on the exterior of the barn. He started with 1 camera and then 8 and now they're just like mosquitos on a hot summer night, they're everywhere in and on the barn :laugh:

I haven't dove in enough to his equipment or the product website to know what he has or what I should add to my own property. I believe he's using the G3 cameras and one dome. Now that they have optical zoom models since he got his he will likely upgrade. :bigthumb:


The company name is Ubiquiti and they make some very nice stuff at an affordable price.

https://www.ui.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,695 Posts
My father in law has a 8 stall barn sitting 1,000ft away with nearly two dozen wifi cameras that live view and record using an NVR. My IT friend is the one who set it up for him. On the exterior of the house he has a small antenna that sends a line of sight signal to the other antenna (receiver) mounted on the exterior of the barn. He started with 1 camera and then 8 and now they're just like mosquitos on a hot summer night, they're everywhere in and on the barn :laugh:

I haven't dove in enough to his equipment or the product website to know what he has or what I should add to my own property. I believe he's using the G3 cameras and one dome. Now that they have optical zoom models since he got his he will likely upgrade. :bigthumb:


The company name is Ubiquiti and they make some very nice stuff at an affordable price.

https://www.ui.com
A co-worker is who told me about Ubiquiti and that is what I use as mentioned above. In his case he lives out in the country and at the time there were no internet options other than dial up or sat service. His sister lives in town and can have broadband. They split the cable bill and he set up an antenna on top of her house and one on his. They were sending the signal something like 7.5 miles. It worked great. Last year there was a new service that offered coverage of some sort to him so he now goes with that but he used it for something like 5 years.

Ubiquiti makes good stuff. The only concern I would have is that configuration can be a little tough for a non technical person. Though if you went with the cloudkey for the controller and their full setup with USG, Switches and Wifi it gets a little easier. While cheaper and easier to work with than full on Cisco gear, it is far from being a basic setup like a Linksys or DLink which are pretty much plug in and go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,750 Posts
Code (NEC) requires at least a foot of soil between your AC power feeder conductors and the low voltage cabling. So to put them in the same trench, you'd likely want your feeders at 3' depth, backfill a foot and then your low voltage at 2'. Otherwise, two separate trenches. This is to minimize the induced voltage from nearby lightening that jgayman spoke of.

I'd definitely utilize a 2" conduit for the low voltage whether utilizing cable rated for direct burial or not. First, I'd suck in a 3/16" nylon pull rope through it, with a shop vac, better than twice the conduit run in length. In this manner, you'd just leave the rope in place and use it to pull in your CAT5/6 and any future additions. With the rope in the conduit, this will prevent future runs from becoming tangled around existing runs. I did this 20+ years ago between the beach house and the main house, about a 100' run. I have padded myself on the back more than once for this foresight! I direct buried everything that was current technology when installed it, telephone & CATV and the conduit was empty. Since then, I've pulled in coax feeds for satellite receivers, a two conductor twisted pair shielded to extend the alarm system, and a CAT 5 run.

As the others somewhat eluded to, I have the "router" configured to disable the router functionality and just utilize it as a wifi access point. So everything works seamlessly with the main house.

While I don't have any experience with them, I'd be inclined to have some IP cameras that I could monitor from my cell phone with some type of motion detection alert. However, you may want to check with your insurance agent in regards to policy discounts. When I built the main home, my insurance carrier offered a monitored alarm system discount that was enough whereas it paid for all the alarm system materials in less than three years and I installed a pretty comprehensive system for the time.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
798 Posts
I used to do network engineering for a living, everything from the cabling infra to the routing/switching fabric and I wouldn't put in ground infrastructure at my home, too much cost for too little value. You'd have more in the cost of external grade cat5 or cat6 and conduit than it would cost with wifi point to point.

If you have direct line of sight I'd buy two of these: Amazon.com: Ubiquiti NanoStation loco M5: Computers Accessories and a wifi router (turn off routing mode) in my pole barn. Low cost, high value, easy install and you can keep upgrading as you need to...

This is pretty much what I did at my place and I've not wanted for more throughput at the barn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,177 Posts
Another vote here to forget about running cable. I have a repeater under the house eave that gives me wifi to the garage and pole barn about 150' away. It supports the IP security cameras and the laptop internet connection when i am in the workshop. There are plenty of inexpensive wireless solutions that are easy to hook up.

Forgot to add.....
Regarding the cell service....It is easy enough to add a cable and external cell antenna to their cell modem to get it outside the metal building.

Something like this with the correct connector on the cable .... cost about $100
https://www.tessco.com/product/in-vehicle-antenna-cell-pcs-sma-magnet-mount-371519
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
25 years in IT / I vote since you are trenching anyway, get some preterminated fiber from
Fiberstore.com and a couple cheap switches for each side. Set it and forget it. Don’t have to worry about calling your nerd for wireless config, issues, updates etc. with running cat/copper you have potential for noise, ground offset issues (do you have a transformer at main building supplying 2nd building or 2 separate feeds from your utility service?). Wireless is great until you have issues. If you are a nerd or have a nerd friend who loves beer then maybe not an issue . For what’s its worth I have purchased millions of dollars of networking equipment over the years including ubiquiti (which I use and like as well, great bang for the buck). But my first choice is always fiber if the opportunity is there and the cost makes sense
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
610 Posts
A co-worker is who told me about Ubiquiti and that is what I use as mentioned above. In his case he lives out in the country and at the time there were no internet options other than dial up or sat service. His sister lives in town and can have broadband. They split the cable bill and he set up an antenna on top of her house and one on his. They were sending the signal something like 7.5 miles. It worked great. Last year there was a new service that offered coverage of some sort to him so he now goes with that but he used it for something like 5 years.

Ubiquiti makes good stuff. The only concern I would have is that configuration can be a little tough for a non technical person. Though if you went with the cloudkey for the controller and their full setup with USG, Switches and Wifi it gets a little easier. While cheaper and easier to work with than full on Cisco gear, it is far from being a basic setup like a Linksys or DLink which are pretty much plug in and go.
Indeed, good stuff. I use Ubiquiti products all over my house and outbuildings. My house, barn, pump house are all networked wirelessly; my shop has my Internet point of presence and UniFi managed switches and a UniFi Security Gateway (USG) for the main router. I have 12 UniFi (Ubiquiti) cameras recording to a UniFi network video recorder in the house. I just bought the new Gen 2 UniFi CloudKey and integrated NVR, I’ll play with that soon.

However I’m a retired IT professional, UniFi products and networking in general would require a very steep learning curve for the inexperienced.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,746 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
You have gotten a lot of good advice. I have over 25 miles of network deployed now covering potentially hundreds of square miles of area, all wireless. I posted about the project in another thread. I would look at Ubiquiti access points and equipment (switches, PoE, cameras, etc) from ubiquiti in general. Very hard to beat the price performance without really knowing what you are doing. I also wouldn't be afraid to run wireless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,579 Posts
My pole barn is about 150ft from my shop & about 190ft from my shop office.
I ran 3 - 2" PVC conduits between the shop & pole barn. One conduit houses the water line, one house the 3 phase electric line, the other carries an air line, Rg6 coax & cat5e cable.
I have not had a need for wireless in the barn yet. I have a Roku that plugs into ethernet switch. I also plug my laptop into the ethernet switch when I have it in the barn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Another option to extend your home network to the new barn is “powerline Ethernet”. Basically plug a device into an electrical socket one on house one in barn. Each device has an Ethernet jack on it / think of it as just a long network cable. Then you can plug a WiFi access point in the barn if you want. I have this to network a detached building on my property and run a couple security cameras over it. Haven’t touched it on the 3 years since I put it in, no issues. If everything is running back to same electrical meter it should work . Kits are $50-$100 ish
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Wow!

Thanks guys, seems. Have a lot of homework and digesting all the great advice! I repeat I am not computer literate so will look at the simpler solutions pointed out. I will not be doing a lot of internet stuff in the shop (unless I keep getting in trouble around the house lol).
I really want to have security of some kind in the shop though. Will have my 1025R and implements. Also my boat and a LOT of fishing stuff so security is a priority. Will be wanting a couple cameras and point of entry sensors for sure. Will want a motion sensor inside the building also. Motion sensor outside would be useless I am afraid, lots of deer, coons, skunks etc etc roam all over my place and especially at night.

Thanks again and will do some reading and studying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Another option to extend your home network to the new barn is “powerline Ethernet”. Basically plug a device into an electrical socket one on house one in barn. Each device has an Ethernet jack on it / think of it as just a long network cable. Then you can plug a WiFi access point in the barn if you want. I have this to network a detached building on my property and run a couple security cameras over it. Haven’t touched it on the 3 years since I put it in, no issues. If everything is running back to same electrical meter it should work . Kits are $50-$100 ish
I saw a you tube video of this and looks good and easy! If I understand correctly, it uses the existing electrical wiring of both house and shop as an antennae? I am coming out of my houses breaker box to the shop where there will be another breaker box. All off the same meter.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top